Do women ask to be sexually harrassed/assaulted?

[Hayteria]

The objection I have to the second sentence (and, to some extent, to what Ry said above)

I'm not exactly familiar with "what Ry said."

For instance, I like wearing shorts and tank tops in summer

Shorts aren't really all that skanky... although I don't see why tank tops would be much better than t-shirts for dealing with the heat. o.o

But because I am female, my choice of clothing will ALWAYS be perceived as part of a display, and as a reflection of how much attention I want to get.

Are you implying that guys AREN'T judged by their choice of clothing? Are you implying that guys AREN'T expected to dress a certain way despite how uncomfortable it may be? (Suit and tie in warm weather for office jobs, anyone?)

Personally, I think it's stupid to assume that somebody has dressed a certain way because they want your attention.

What about other assumptions from how people dress? If someone wears a t-shirt instead of a suit because it is more comfortable, do you consider it stupid to assume they are lazy?

Feel free to ASK them if you are curious

Feel free to ask a question that could get me publicly labelled perverted and/or nosy (you seem to be the first I have seen giving a justification beyond either the idea that they are fishing for compliments, or the cliche that they do not need a justification) by said person, when I'd have no idea how far this rumour could go? Do you realize the implications of what you are saying?

[Ifreann]

I agree with the OP. Most of the time those kinds of girls are fine with unwanted advancements, because there skanks. But I believe those aren't the only kind of girls being raped.

So it's okay to rape skanks because, well, they're skanks and they really want it anyway? Just trying to be clear.

And how on Earth can does "fine with unwanted advances" equate to "skank"?

I'm still stuck on "fine with unwanted advances". Isn't that an oxymoron?

I figured it was sort of a "I wasn't expecting anyone to hit on me, but ok, you don't have any obvious diseases, whatever" situation.

[Knowlandia]

What I do not get is why this topic is still being debated. The answer is simple, and has been given by more than one poster already: no, women do not ask to be sexually harassed or assaulted. That some people still argue that they do because of their choice of clothing is incredibly backwards.

Of course they don't "ask" for it. If they ask to be raped, it isn't techinically rape, is it? People just need to take precuations and be safe. I don't like how people don't take responsibility anymore, and just blame everything on other people.

Yeah, how dare we place all the blame on rapists for raping people? Just who do we think we are to judge them?

If you read my previous posts, you would know I think rapists are very much to blame. I support capital punishment for rapists. But like I said, crime is preventable. If my 16 year old daughter came home at 2 am saying she got raped at a college party she went to, after calling the police, I would ground her for a year. Why the fuck was she at a college party? What the hell was she doing out at 2 am!?

I suppose you would pitty her and tell her she did nothing wrong, correct?

So you would blame your 16 year old daughter for being raped?

Sure, she shouldn't have been at a college party without your permission, as her parent, but it is not her fault either if some douche bag decides to rape her. Regardless of her being at a party she shouldn't be, her getting raped is not her fault but that of the rapist.

When I say "fault", I think I may be using the wrong word. I guess what I'm trying to say is that woman (and men too, of course) need to examine the consequences that they will face from there actions. I don't really like using the word "fault" because that means we are just looking for people to blame. The woman was raped, rape is a crime, the rapist belongs in jail. If we want to examine why it happened to see if it could be prevented int he future, we need to look at the situation. That's it, really.

[Illithar]

Threads like this are what bothers me so much about NSG. First you have people saying that the girl is to be blamed for getting raped and then you have people who seem to be saying that any male-initiated flirtation is harassment and the sad part is that they're not even the extremists.

[Czardas]

But because I am female, my choice of clothing will ALWAYS be perceived as part of a display, and as a reflection of how much attention I want to get.

Are you implying that guys AREN'T judged by their choice of clothing? Are you implying that guys AREN'T expected to dress a certain way despite how uncomfortable it may be? (Suit and tie in warm weather for office jobs, anyone?)

No; this is fairly simple to understand:

I can walk around in what you might consider "default attire" for my age. In current (warm) weather that consists of a t-shirt and jeans. In colder weather I add a blue North Face fleece. On my feet can be found a pair of sneakers (or trainers or tennis shoes or whatever you call them). What does this say about me? What would it say about me if I were a woman?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

When I say "fault", I think I may be using the wrong word. I guess what I'm trying to say is that woman (and men too, of course) need to examine the consequences that they will face from there actions. I don't really like using the word "fault" because that means we are just looking for people to blame. The woman was raped, rape is a crime, the rapist belongs in jail. If we want to examine why it happened to see if it could be prevented int he future, we need to look at the situation. That's it, really.

Yes, you are using the wrong word. No matter what choice of clothing a woman decides to use or whether she is in a place people would deem not proper, there is no justification for her getting raped. Besides, some people here, Bottle I think, have already stated that a woman can get assaulted while she's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. It doesn't matter, same as where you may be. If you're going to get raped, you could be in front of a church for all a rapist cares.

Also, the excuse of 'she could have prevented this by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time' is not acceptable. A woman can get raped in her own home, by someone she knows, like say, her husband. So sure, you could chastise your daughter for disobeying you and going to a a place you expressly told her not to go, if it's an issue of parenting. But saying you're going to ground her because she got raped in a place she was, according to you, not supposed to be is... horrible.

Your hypothetical 16 year old daughter is not to blame for getting raped. The rapist is.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

But because I am female, my choice of clothing will ALWAYS be perceived as part of a display, and as a reflection of how much attention I want to get.

Are you implying that guys AREN'T judged by their choice of clothing? Are you implying that guys AREN'T expected to dress a certain way despite how uncomfortable it may be? (Suit and tie in warm weather for office jobs, anyone?)

No; this is fairly simple to understand:

I can walk around in what you might consider "default attire" for my age. In current (warm) weather that consists of a t-shirt and jeans. In colder weather I add a blue North Face fleece. On my feet can be found a pair of sneakers (or trainers or tennis shoes or whatever you call them). What does this say about me? What would it say about me if I were a woman?

It depends... how tight are the jeans? What color are the shoes? How "worn" is the fleece?

If you were a woman? "I want to be raped". Obviously.

[Czardas]

But because I am female, my choice of clothing will ALWAYS be perceived as part of a display, and as a reflection of how much attention I want to get.

Are you implying that guys AREN'T judged by their choice of clothing? Are you implying that guys AREN'T expected to dress a certain way despite how uncomfortable it may be? (Suit and tie in warm weather for office jobs, anyone?)

No; this is fairly simple to understand:

I can walk around in what you might consider "default attire" for my age. In current (warm) weather that consists of a t-shirt and jeans. In colder weather I add a blue North Face fleece. On my feet can be found a pair of sneakers (or trainers or tennis shoes or whatever you call them). What does this say about me? What would it say about me if I were a woman?

It depends... how tight are the jeans? What color are the shoes? How "worn" is the fleece?

"Normal." Black. Not enough to be noticeable, but not new either.

If you were a woman? "I want to be raped". Obviously.

Well, it's not our fault ladies have tits, is it?

[Sdaeriji]

Threads like this are what bothers me so much about NSG. First you have people saying that the girl is to be blamed for getting raped and then you have people who seem to be saying that any male-initiated flirtation is harassment and the sad part is that they're not even the extremists.

Who said the second part?

[Flansinma]

I agree, but don't agree, teens these days have "FASHION" and if thats what the "fashion" is, it's sort of not their fault to be honest, what about the people who harass them? where are they in the speech of blame?

[Iron Chariots]

But because I am female, my choice of clothing will ALWAYS be perceived as part of a display, and as a reflection of how much attention I want to get.

Are you implying that guys AREN'T judged by their choice of clothing? Are you implying that guys AREN'T expected to dress a certain way despite how uncomfortable it may be? (Suit and tie in warm weather for office jobs, anyone?)

No; this is fairly simple to understand:

I can walk around in what you might consider "default attire" for my age. In current (warm) weather that consists of a t-shirt and jeans. In colder weather I add a blue North Face fleece. On my feet can be found a pair of sneakers (or trainers or tennis shoes or whatever you call them). What does this say about me? What would it say about me if I were a woman?

It depends... how tight are the jeans? What color are the shoes? How "worn" is the fleece?

"Normal." Black. Not enough to be noticeable, but not new either.

If you were a woman? "I want to be raped". Obviously.

Well, it's not our fault ladies have tits, is it?

Well, given that we're the ones that pass on either an X or a Y...

[Illithar]

Threads like this are what bothers me so much about NSG. First you have people saying that the girl is to be blamed for getting raped and then you have people who seem to be saying that any male-initiated flirtation is harassment and the sad part is that they're not even the extremists.

Who said the second part?

That seemed to be the direction Bottle was heading and the Xlxs-whatever person.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

But because I am female, my choice of clothing will ALWAYS be perceived as part of a display, and as a reflection of how much attention I want to get.

Are you implying that guys AREN'T judged by their choice of clothing? Are you implying that guys AREN'T expected to dress a certain way despite how uncomfortable it may be? (Suit and tie in warm weather for office jobs, anyone?)

No; this is fairly simple to understand:

I can walk around in what you might consider "default attire" for my age. In current (warm) weather that consists of a t-shirt and jeans. In colder weather I add a blue North Face fleece. On my feet can be found a pair of sneakers (or trainers or tennis shoes or whatever you call them). What does this say about me? What would it say about me if I were a woman?

It depends... how tight are the jeans? What color are the shoes? How "worn" is the fleece?

"Normal." Black. Not enough to be noticeable, but not new either.

EDIT: Darnit, I meant to hit "Preview"... So you like to be comfortable, not draw too much notice, and you're at least slightly morbid. How far off am I?

If you were a woman? "I want to be raped". Obviously.

Well, it's not our fault ladies have tits, is it?

New t-shirt... "Been Raped? Blame Your Genes."

[Knowlandia]

When I say "fault", I think I may be using the wrong word. I guess what I'm trying to say is that woman (and men too, of course) need to examine the consequences that they will face from there actions. I don't really like using the word "fault" because that means we are just looking for people to blame. The woman was raped, rape is a crime, the rapist belongs in jail. If we want to examine why it happened to see if it could be prevented int he future, we need to look at the situation. That's it, really.

Yes, you are using the wrong word. No matter what choice of clothing a woman decides to use or whether she is in a place people would deem not proper, there is no justification for her getting raped. Besides, some people here, Bottle I think, have already stated that a woman can get assaulted while she's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. It doesn't matter, same as where you may be. If you're going to get raped, you could be in front of a church for all a rapist cares.

Also, the excuse of 'she could have prevented this by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time' is not acceptable. A woman can get raped in her own home, by someone she knows, like say, her husband. So sure, you could chastise your daughter for disobeying you and going to a a place you expressly told her not to go, if it's an issue of parenting. But saying you're going to ground her because she got raped in a place she was, according to you, not supposed to be is... horrible.

Your hypothetical 16 year old daughter is not to blame for getting raped. The rapist is.

If my hypothetical 16 year old daughter had used good judgement, she wouldn't have gone to the party, if she hadn't gone to the party, she wouldn't have been raped. I agree with you, anyone can be raped no matter what they wear, but you can't argue the fact that going to a risky enviornment like that multiplied her chances. I would never be mad at my daughter if she was just walking down the street when she was raped. She would not be at fault at all. But when people put themselves in risky situations, when people do things without thinking of the consequences, it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for them.

[Geniasis]

But when people put themselves in risky situations, when people do things without thinking of the consequences, it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for them.

That's unfortunate. I pray you never have a daughter.

[Skaladora]

I swear, one of these days, I will go on a full-on homosexual rape RAMPAGE on random straight males who just happen to be wearing revealing, skimpy or tight clothes.

I'm pretty sure once the usual "Well, you're reasonably attractive and you were walking in the park, at night, wearing only tight jeans and a t-shirt? Are you MAD? You were just ASKING to be violently raped! Why, if you had taken the proper precautions this would never have happened!" answer to claims of rape have been used on them for a while, they'll get the message and stop somehow implying that the victim deserves part of the blame.

Rapes are caused by rapists, not by women somehow "tempting those poor, weak-willed heterosexual men into giving them what they so richly deserve".

[Knowlandia]

But when people put themselves in risky situations, when people do things without thinking of the consequences, it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for them.

That's unfortunate. I pray you never have a daughter.

I hope I never have a daughter, either.

[Muravyets]

Threads like this are what bothers me so much about NSG. First you have people saying that the girl is to be blamed for getting raped and then you have people who seem to be saying that any male-initiated flirtation is harassment and the sad part is that they're not even the extremists.

Who said the second part?

That seemed to be the direction Bottle was heading and the Xlxs-whatever person.

So, nobody said it, then.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

When I say "fault", I think I may be using the wrong word. I guess what I'm trying to say is that woman (and men too, of course) need to examine the consequences that they will face from there actions. I don't really like using the word "fault" because that means we are just looking for people to blame. The woman was raped, rape is a crime, the rapist belongs in jail. If we want to examine why it happened to see if it could be prevented int he future, we need to look at the situation. That's it, really.

Yes, you are using the wrong word. No matter what choice of clothing a woman decides to use or whether she is in a place people would deem not proper, there is no justification for her getting raped. Besides, some people here, Bottle I think, have already stated that a woman can get assaulted while she's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. It doesn't matter, same as where you may be. If you're going to get raped, you could be in front of a church for all a rapist cares.

Also, the excuse of 'she could have prevented this by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time' is not acceptable. A woman can get raped in her own home, by someone she knows, like say, her husband. So sure, you could chastise your daughter for disobeying you and going to a a place you expressly told her not to go, if it's an issue of parenting. But saying you're going to ground her because she got raped in a place she was, according to you, not supposed to be is... horrible.

Your hypothetical 16 year old daughter is not to blame for getting raped. The rapist is.

If my hypothetical 16 year old daughter had used good judgement, she wouldn't have gone to the party, if she hadn't gone to the party, she wouldn't have been raped. I agree with you, anyone can be raped no matter what they wear, but you can't argue the fact that going to a risky enviornment like that multiplied her chances. I would never be mad at my daughter if she was just walking down the street when she was raped. She would not be at fault at all. But when people put themselves in risky situations, when people do things without thinking of the consequences, it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for them.

I went to a few college parties when I was a teenager, without permission from my mother. You know what happened to me in that 'risky environment'? Nothing. Why, you may wonder? Because there wasn't a rapist amidst the party goers to do me harm.

It is not, as it has been said already, a matter of 'good judgment'. If a woman is to get raped, she will be, regardless of the whether the place she's at is deemed 'risky' or not.

I feel rather sad for you and for your hypothetical daughter because I see that yes, you would blame her for getting raped at a party when it is clearly not her fault if some asshole decides to rape her.

[Muravyets]

But when people put themselves in risky situations, when people do things without thinking of the consequences, it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for them.

That's unfortunate. I pray you never have a daughter.

Look, it's simple. The silly little slut failed to obey the man who was responsible for her, and she went and got herself all raped n stuff, thus making him look bad -- like he's not in control enough as a parent -- and for THAT she must be punished. Immediately, while it's fresh, so she'll know how obedient she should be in future. I mean, seriously, if anyone is going to feel bad for anyone here, surely Daddy Dearest should be getting all the sympathy. Look what that uppity little bint is putting him through.

But that's not blaming her for getting raped. It's just blaming her for causing herself to be raped by failing to obey.

[Knowlandia]

When I say "fault", I think I may be using the wrong word. I guess what I'm trying to say is that woman (and men too, of course) need to examine the consequences that they will face from there actions. I don't really like using the word "fault" because that means we are just looking for people to blame. The woman was raped, rape is a crime, the rapist belongs in jail. If we want to examine why it happened to see if it could be prevented int he future, we need to look at the situation. That's it, really.

Yes, you are using the wrong word. No matter what choice of clothing a woman decides to use or whether she is in a place people would deem not proper, there is no justification for her getting raped. Besides, some people here, Bottle I think, have already stated that a woman can get assaulted while she's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. It doesn't matter, same as where you may be. If you're going to get raped, you could be in front of a church for all a rapist cares.

Also, the excuse of 'she could have prevented this by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time' is not acceptable. A woman can get raped in her own home, by someone she knows, like say, her husband. So sure, you could chastise your daughter for disobeying you and going to a a place you expressly told her not to go, if it's an issue of parenting. But saying you're going to ground her because she got raped in a place she was, according to you, not supposed to be is... horrible.

Your hypothetical 16 year old daughter is not to blame for getting raped. The rapist is.

If my hypothetical 16 year old daughter had used good judgement, she wouldn't have gone to the party, if she hadn't gone to the party, she wouldn't have been raped. I agree with you, anyone can be raped no matter what they wear, but you can't argue the fact that going to a risky enviornment like that multiplied her chances. I would never be mad at my daughter if she was just walking down the street when she was raped. She would not be at fault at all. But when people put themselves in risky situations, when people do things without thinking of the consequences, it is very difficult for me to feel sorry for them.

I went to a few college parties when I was a teenager, without permission from my mother. You know what happened to me in that 'risky environment'? Nothing. Why, you may wonder? Because there wasn't a rapist amidst the party goers to do me harm.

It is not, as it has been said already, a matter of 'good judgment'. If a woman is to get raped, she will be, regardless of the whether the place she's at is deemed 'risky' or not.

I feel rather sad for you and for your hypothetical daughter because I see that yes, you would blame her for getting raped at a party when it is clearly not her fault if some asshole decides to rape her.

Well, you should probably call the hypothetical child services on me so that they could take my hypothetical daughter to a hypothetical foster home.

[Skaladora]

Well, you should probably call the hypothetical child services on me so that they could take my hypothetical daughter to a hypothetical foster home.

Besides, you are aware that the overwhelming majority of rapes that happen are not done by stranger, but rather by people known to the women?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#United_States

Your hypothetical daughter is pretty much safer from rape, statistically speaking, if she goes to that party where she doesn't know anyone, than if she stays at home in the company of relatives, friends/acquaintances, or her current/ex boyfriend.

[Geniasis]

Well, you should probably call the hypothetical child services on me so that they could take my hypothetical daughter to a hypothetical foster home.

Besides, you are aware that the overwhelming majority of rapes that happen are not done by stranger, but rather by people known to the women?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#United_States

Your hypothetical daughter is pretty much safer from rape, statistically speaking, if she goes to that party where she doesn't know anyone, than if she stays at home in the company of relatives, friends/acquaintances, or her current/ex boyfriend.

Bitch's fault for knowing people.

[Kingdom-democracy]

While I don't think any woman is asking to be harassed or assaulted because of her choice of attire, I do think we now live in such a hyper-sexualized society that too many women tend to use their attire as a "lure" for men. But, I think that has a significant amount to do with our media. Young girls are barraged with imagery of how to be thin and how to be beautiful and force fed the idea that their lives can only be fulfilling if they are the object of every man's desire. So many women now dress like prostitutes. I dunno, it just seems to me a pathetic and desperate plea for attention -- like those bleached yellow-haired, orange-skinned girls at the bar who are getting ignored for 5 minutes, so they begin a pseudo-lesbian display by kissing.

Not that men are any better, by any means. This sort of thuggish, stone-faced "bad ass" caricature that every man seems to play nowadays is equally as pathetic and stupid.

People...........meh.

I agree men and women try to get eachother because of a thing that every man/women wants so we go out and try to impress the opposite sex so they will like us even though it's not even the real us. The media brainwashes us on how to impress the guy/girl so we can get laid or find that dream guy. But women don't ask for the unwanted contact they just get it because of how they look. But by saying that girls ask for it is completly wrong even though it probably wouldn't have happened if they didn't dress like that. They are basicly doing the samething us guys do and that is impress a guy that she might like.

[Skaladora]

Bitch's fault for knowing people.

Yeah, this wouldn't have happened if she had stayed in the windowless kitchen in her burqa behind that reinforced door like I told her to.