Taxation is Coercion

[Sibirsky]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

[Ellyandia]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

So why not have a contractual system where we're all allowed to consent to pay for the services we do use? Besides, we (sorry to speak for everyone) believe all those public services could be provided by the free market in a more efficent way. The only point I could see any libertarian diverging at are the police, courts, and military.

[Norstal]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

[Bendira]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

So I pay for the police to arrest me for breaking a law I don't agree with. What if I don't want to fund the police, and don't want their protection?

And yes, another GREAT alternative that is COMPLETELY coercive. So far the suggestions have been either to exile myself to a deserted island, or live homeless on the streets. Really great stuff.

[Ellyandia]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

Because that's reasonable.

[Norstal]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

So I pay for the police to arrest me for breaking a law I don't agree with. What if I don't want to fund the police, and don't want their protection?

And yes, another GREAT alternative that is COMPLETELY coercive. So far the suggestions have been either to exile myself to a deserted island, or live homeless on the streets. Really great stuff.

Or you can hold out in your home with a shotgun to fire upon IRS agents and the army.

If you don't want the police protection, petition to your local city hall to abolish the local police.

[Sibirsky]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

No, my taxes pay to kill innocent Iraqis. My taxes pay to bailout unproductive, in fact destructive GM, AIG, FannieMae, Freddie Mac, CitiGroup and Bank of America. My taxes pay for the farm bill which destroys food.

Police and firefighters? Chump change.

You suggestion, to be homeless, is not very smart.

[Norstal]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

No, my taxes pay to kill innocent Iraqis. My taxes pay to bailout unproductive, in fact destructive GM, AIG, FannieMae, Freddie Mac, CitiGroup and Bank of America. My taxes pay for the farm bill which destroys food.

Police and firefighters? Chump change.

You suggestion, to be homeless, is not very smart.

I don't suggest you'll be homeless. Its the fact that you will be homeless if you don't pay taxes because the IRS will seize your properties.

Chump change my ass. The needs of many outnumbers one. It can be applied in capitalism and it can be applied anywhere else.

My taxes pays for balding men to debate endless in a chambered room, but what do I care? If they keep doing shit like that, I won't be able to pay my taxes anyways.

[Carls-land]

No it's not. It's the price you pay for government Recognition of your property.

[Sibirsky]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

No, my taxes pay to kill innocent Iraqis. My taxes pay to bailout unproductive, in fact destructive GM, AIG, FannieMae, Freddie Mac, CitiGroup and Bank of America. My taxes pay for the farm bill which destroys food.

Police and firefighters? Chump change.

You suggestion, to be homeless, is not very smart.

I don't suggest you'll be homeless. Its the fact that you will be homeless if you don't pay taxes because the IRS will seize your properties.

Chump change my ass. The needs of many outnumbers one. It can be applied in capitalism and it can be applied anywhere else.

My taxes pays for balding men to debate endless in a chambered room, but what do I care? If they keep doing shit like that, I won't be able to pay my taxes anyways.

Taxes for police and firefighters are chump change compared to all the oppression, destruction, corruption and fraud taxes pay for.

[Ellyandia]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

No, my taxes pay to kill innocent Iraqis. My taxes pay to bailout unproductive, in fact destructive GM, AIG, FannieMae, Freddie Mac, CitiGroup and Bank of America. My taxes pay for the farm bill which destroys food.

Police and firefighters? Chump change.

You suggestion, to be homeless, is not very smart.

I don't suggest you'll be homeless. Its the fact that you will be homeless if you don't pay taxes because the IRS will seize your properties.

Chump change my ass. The needs of many outnumbers one. It can be applied in capitalism and it can be applied anywhere else.

My taxes pays for balding men to debate endless in a chambered room, but what do I care? If they keep doing shit like that, I won't be able to pay my taxes anyways.

Since when? What if the majority is wrong or just stripping my rights away. Why is that okay? Why is it okay to force people to sacrifice in the name of the "greater good"?

[Lyserl]

Well, since everybody seems to be arguing from their deepest-held ideals...

I don't see why people give a shit about taxes being coercive. I do not see why coercion means that it's theft, or that people have some claim to the money they "lose" (more like never have in the first place, amirite?). It's not like the average person is actually capable of being intelligent with how they use their money, so having a portion "removed" from their pay (as it never goes into their hands, they have no real claim to it that cannot be summed up by "BAAAAAW") for the purposes of being used to actually advance humanity. You know, as opposed to playing pointless games with the exchange of said money in the giant circlejerk known as the "free market".

[Ellyandia]

Well, since everybody seems to be arguing from their deepest-held ideals...

I don't see why people give a shit about taxes being coercive. I do not see why coercion means that it's theft, or that people have some claim to the money they "lose" (more like never have in the first place, amirite?). It's not like the average person is actually capable of being intelligent with how they use their money, so having a portion "removed" from their pay (as it never goes into their hands, they have no real claim to it that cannot be summed up by "BAAAAAW") for the purposes of being used to actually advance humanity. You know, as opposed to playing pointless games with the exchange of said money in the giant circlejerk known as the "free market".

It's the fruits of your labor, how can you not have a claim?
It's called the profit motive, a universal law of human action that everyone lives by. This will gaurantee that even "stupid" people will use their money as best they can.
How does theft advance humanity? Our contention is that it impedes the advancement of humanity.

[Norstal]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

No, my taxes pay to kill innocent Iraqis. My taxes pay to bailout unproductive, in fact destructive GM, AIG, FannieMae, Freddie Mac, CitiGroup and Bank of America. My taxes pay for the farm bill which destroys food.

Police and firefighters? Chump change.

You suggestion, to be homeless, is not very smart.

I don't suggest you'll be homeless. Its the fact that you will be homeless if you don't pay taxes because the IRS will seize your properties.

Chump change my ass. The needs of many outnumbers one. It can be applied in capitalism and it can be applied anywhere else.

My taxes pays for balding men to debate endless in a chambered room, but what do I care? If they keep doing shit like that, I won't be able to pay my taxes anyways.

Since when? What if the majority is wrong or just stripping my rights away. Why is that okay? Why is it okay to force people to sacrifice in the name of the "greater good"?

What you're suggesting is that you should be king. A majority can't be "wrong" nor can they be "right". Its all opinions.
So, yes its okay for the majority to subjugate the minority, especially over a trivial matter such as taxes. Remember that the money you have is that the money you own.

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

You think your taxes pays just for that? It pays for the police, fire fighters, the army, parks, everything around you that is not owned by private businesses. Services that runs 24/7.

If you really don't like taxes, don't pay taxes then. The government won't send you to jail. You'll just be homeless.

No, my taxes pay to kill innocent Iraqis. My taxes pay to bailout unproductive, in fact destructive GM, AIG, FannieMae, Freddie Mac, CitiGroup and Bank of America. My taxes pay for the farm bill which destroys food.

Police and firefighters? Chump change.

You suggestion, to be homeless, is not very smart.

I don't suggest you'll be homeless. Its the fact that you will be homeless if you don't pay taxes because the IRS will seize your properties.

Chump change my ass. The needs of many outnumbers one. It can be applied in capitalism and it can be applied anywhere else.

My taxes pays for balding men to debate endless in a chambered room, but what do I care? If they keep doing shit like that, I won't be able to pay my taxes anyways.

Taxes for police and firefighters are chump change compared to all the oppression, destruction, corruption and fraud taxes pay for.

Its not like they're doing that to you. I honestly don't care what the government do with my taxes. Like I said, if they keep doing shit like that, we won't be able to pay taxes anyways. What comes around comes around.

[Ellyandia]

Chump change my ass. The needs of many outnumbers one. It can be applied in capitalism and it can be applied anywhere else.

Since when? What if the majority is wrong or just stripping my rights away. Why is that okay? Why is it okay to force people to sacrifice in the name of the "greater good"?

What you're suggesting is that you should be king. A majority can't be "wrong" nor can they be "right". Its all opinions.
So, yes its okay for the majority to subjugate the minority, especially over a trivial matter such as taxes. Remember that the money you have is that the money you own.

When did I say I should be king? Are you suggesting that no one has any rights and we're all at the whims of those around us? That leads down a dark road.

[The Digital Rule]

If the majority were responsible we could all own guns, and still have some of the lowest rates of gun-related violence, or we could all decide what *our* ( * not up for debate) money is spent on.

Sadly, we'd decide all of our tax dollars should be spent on subsidising gin and automobiles. I think once again it's a matter of limiting the rights of civillians because they're too stupid to determine anything for themselves.

If you go back to my previous statement on page 9 or so, you will notice that in my (RP) country, the only political figures are corporate/public pressure groups trying to sway public opinion, as the only people who get to decide what laws and taxation are valid are the public. The public decides how their advertising budgets are capped. The only use for government officials is to relay the current laws of my country to other countries, and to help the illiterate/handicapped to have their votes counted.

So in my country, they decide how money is collected, how much is collected, and they decide the consequences for not paying also. They could decide on "no taxes for anybody" if they wanted. Theivery? I don't think so.

[Lyserl]

Well, since everybody seems to be arguing from their deepest-held ideals...

I don't see why people give a shit about taxes being coercive. I do not see why coercion means that it's theft, or that people have some claim to the money they "lose" (more like never have in the first place, amirite?). It's not like the average person is actually capable of being intelligent with how they use their money, so having a portion "removed" from their pay (as it never goes into their hands, they have no real claim to it that cannot be summed up by "BAAAAAW") for the purposes of being used to actually advance humanity. You know, as opposed to playing pointless games with the exchange of said money in the giant circlejerk known as the "free market".

It's the fruits of your labor, how can you not have a claim?
It's called the profit motive, a universal law of human action that everyone lives by. This will gaurantee that even "stupid" people will use their money as best they can.
How does theft advance humanity? Our contention is that it impedes the advancement of humanity.

You work for someone, yes?
if not, imagine you were actually a productive human being

In many if not most cases, for you to be worth having on the payroll you need to do something viewed as productive. Suppose that, through your labor and work, you made whatever entity you work for take in a million dollars. It could certainly be called the fruits of your labor. But does this mean you have a claim to it? No. You will receive whatever your normal pay would be for the period, and if you have an extraordinarily nice boss you may get a pat on the back. I am reasonably certain, given your apparent capitalistic nature, that you will agree that this is just. Why should you care if your employer pays the government a small amount based on how much you worked? There really isn't any inherent "right" (an ephemeral concept if I ever saw one!) to the fruits of your labor unless you are working for yourself.

People do (in most cases, not all) try to do things that will make things better for themselves. Unfortunately, the average person is very often too stupid to think in their own long-term interests, so short-term gains (what is usually seen as being a profit) will often come back to bite them in the ass. This is ignoring the fact that what is best for one person is not necessarily best for every other person (including those in the future), which is what I care about. I really do not care what pointless, selfish games people play, be it in the social or economic spheres.

You have yet to present a convincing argument that taxation is theft, that coercion is wrong, or even that you had some sort of "right" to said money in the first place.

Edit: And I really need sleep now, so whatever.

[The PeoplesFreedom]

Coercion is not wrong?

Roger, Imma walk up with a handgun and point it to your head and force you to give me all your money, and that's not wrong because Coercion is not wrong.

[Lyserl]

Go for it.

I'll even give you the money. It's not like I carry much anyways. Afterward, I'll go to the police, give them a detailed description of you, and, if you were stupid (which you certainly were in robbing me, there's that long-term versus short-term profit thing again), you may be detained by the police and serve a lengthy prison sentence, have a permanent black mark on your record, and so on. But that's pretty much a complete red herring anyways, so why do I care?

Oh wait, because it is obviously directly comparable to the state taking money you have no "right" to in the first place so it can pay for things which you are almost certainly too selfish and idiotic to pay for yourself.

[Great Nepal]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

Tax money pays for a lot other service than it. And as I said, you dont want to pay tax - then you are free to go to Somalia.

[The PeoplesFreedom]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

Tax money pays for a lot other service than it. And as I said, you dont want to pay tax - then you are free to go to Somalia.

The "if you don't like it go somewhere else" argument is absolutely ridiculous.

[Zephie]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

Tax money pays for a lot other service than it. And as I said, you dont want to pay tax - then you are free to go to Somalia.

There's not really any unclaimed land on earth, so avoiding civilization is almost impossible. Making your "If you don't like it, go to ____" argument moot.

[Lietvos]

This thread is fail.

I'm surprised it even got so many replies.

[Great Nepal]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

I have well water. I pay for roads through the gasoline excise tax. I pay more than my "fair" share, and I'm coerced into making that payment.

Tax money pays for a lot other service than it. And as I said, you dont want to pay tax - then you are free to go to Somalia.

There's not really any unclaimed land on earth, so avoiding civilization is almost impossible. Making your "If you don't like it, go to ____" argument moot.

You dont have to pay tax in nation like Somalia on the downside you dont get protection from murderers, robbers etc and you dont get facilities.

[Dyakovo]

Leave to go where? Another nation with taxation? Do you know what it takes to leave? Well, a plane ticket, but what it takes to be exempt from income tax forever? Do you? You have to renounce your citizenship. That means you cannot come visit ever again. You have to pay an exit tax. You then have to continue paying income taxes for the following decade. After that, you can earn all the money you want and not owe a penny in US income taxes. That is not a choice.

You realize the exact same argument applies to an inherited house, or car? and yet no-one would claim that was theft.
and I'm gonna need a source on having to pay tax for a decade after renouncing citizenship.

How is that anything like a house?
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/int ... 45,00.html

It seems they got rid of the 10 years tax. Damn, a tax law that was improved. I am genuinely shocked.

You do realize that the page you linked to is under the heading of business tax rules, yes?