Taxation is Coercion

[Ellyandia]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

You have to pay taxes to leave.

Then hop the border like an illegal immigrant, in reverse.

Into a land with taxes.

[Sibirsky]

So my choice to living in tyranny is to hop the border, evade authorities until I can stow away on a ship. Then jump off when passing by a deserted island, swim ashore and die from lack of food or clean water.

Can you finally admit taxation is coersive?

Can you stop using a deserted island as a country of choice for migration? You're whole premise is that the world outside the US is a deserted waste land. It's not. there's all kinds of people out there, different colors and cultures and everything.

I know, it sounds like science fiction, or fantasy "Others? Outside the US? Impossible!!!" But I assure you that there is a non-deserted world out there.

Name a place other than a deserted island that wouldn't tax me?

Somalia (haha)

But seriously, there's all kinds of countries around the world that are tax havens in some sense.

You continue to fail (haha)

Direct taxes are imposed on income and profits, when officials can collect them. In 1986, tax rates on wages and salaries ranged from 0% to 18.9%. Income from trade and the professions was taxed at rates of up to 35%. Indirect taxes are imposed on imports, exports, mortgages, vehicle registration, sugar, alcohol, and a number of other goods and services. In 2003, Somolia's sales tax rate was 10%.

Read more: Somalia Overview - tax, system, power, International cooperation, Insurance, Public finance http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Afri ... z0xbB5iYg1

[Ellyandia]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

So you're really saying he has no choice.

Yes I am.

He has a choice of buying the product (living in the United States) or not buying the product.

Of course, if you're saying he doesn't have a choice to live in the United States and not pay the taxes, than that's true, but than they'd be stealing.

No, of paying taxes. You just admitted there's no place where you could be tax free, so really he has no choice. He has to pay taxes where ever he goes, because they're coercive.

[Bendira]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

So you're really saying he has no choice.

Yes I am.

He has a choice of buying the product (living in the United States) or not buying the product.

Of course, if you're saying he doesn't have a choice to live in the United States and not pay the taxes, than that's true, but than they'd be stealing.

Well now that we have established that you think forced migration and violent coersion are morally acceptable, we can move on to the fact that you think killing yourself is a logical choice compared to just having your money taken.

[Sibirsky]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

You have to pay taxes to leave.

Then hop the border like an illegal immigrant, in reverse.

Into a land with taxes.

And become unbankable to boot.

[Dimzul]

Name a place other than a deserted island that wouldn't tax me?

Andorra-No personal income tax

The Bahamas-The Bahamas levies neither personal income nor capital gains tax, nor are there inheritance taxes

Belize- No capital gains tax.

Delaware- charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state

Monaco- does not levy a personal income tax

Nauru– No taxes. Only tax in country is an airport departure tax

Norfolk Island– no personal income tax

United Arab Emirates- no personal income tax

[Sibirsky]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

So you're really saying he has no choice.

Yes I am.

He has a choice of buying the product (living in the United States) or not buying the product.

Of course, if you're saying he doesn't have a choice to live in the United States and not pay the taxes, than that's true, but than they'd be stealing.

No, of paying taxes. You just admitted there's no place where you could be tax free, so really he has no choice. He has to pay taxes where ever he goes, because they're coercive.

Penalty of making that choice. The choice of being born.

[Xomic]

So my choice to living in tyranny is to hop the border, evade authorities until I can stow away on a ship. Then jump off when passing by a deserted island, swim ashore and die from lack of food or clean water.

Can you finally admit taxation is coersive?

Can you stop using a deserted island as a country of choice for migration? You're whole premise is that the world outside the US is a deserted waste land. It's not. there's all kinds of people out there, different colors and cultures and everything.

I know, it sounds like science fiction, or fantasy "Others? Outside the US? Impossible!!!" But I assure you that there is a non-deserted world out there.

Name a place other than a deserted island that wouldn't tax me?

Somalia (haha)

But seriously, there's all kinds of countries around the world that are tax havens in some sense.

Name one. And tell us how to leave without having to pay the exit tax.

Andorra: it's in europe with no income, gift, inheritance or capital transfer taxes.

As for getting around the exit tax, that's up to you. Given how looply tax law is, it shouldn't be too hard, but it likely differs from state to state in the United States.

[Xomic]

So basically can you admit that taxation is coersive?

It's not.

I've read your 'argument' for why leaving isn't a valid choice, but the fact is that you've engineered your argument into a hyperbole, making it invalid. Leaving is in no sense metaphorical suicide, and you don't have to go to a 'deserted island' to escape taxes. It's a strawman and you know it.

[Ellyandia]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

So you're really saying he has no choice.

Yes I am.

He has a choice of buying the product (living in the United States) or not buying the product.

Of course, if you're saying he doesn't have a choice to live in the United States and not pay the taxes, than that's true, but than they'd be stealing.

No, of paying taxes. You just admitted there's no place where you could be tax free, so really he has no choice. He has to pay taxes where ever he goes, because they're coercive.

Penalty of making that choice. The choice of being born.

Oh, so it's just like the argument that I was born into a social contract,that came into being 200 years ago, therefore I agree and consent to it?

[Bendira]

So basically can you admit that taxation is coersive?

It's not.

I've read your 'argument' for why leaving isn't a valid choice, but the fact is that you've engineered your argument into a hyperbole, making it invalid. Leaving is in no sense metaphorical suicide, and you don't have to go to a 'deserted island' to escape taxes. It's a strawman and you know it.

No, I don't know it. There is no where I can go without taxation. How the hell is that a strawman? And why isn't it metaphorical suicide?

[Sibirsky]

Andorra-No personal income tax

Until 2007, there was no capital gains tax, but one was then introduced (on a sliding scale) in an attempt to slow property inflation. The nominal rate is 15%, but it is reduced by 1% for each year of ownership of the property being sold.

Employees pay national insurance contributions, and there are municipal taxes on property. There are customs duties on some imported goods (Andorra applies the common external tariff of the EU), and a number of sales taxes on various classes of goods and services, typically at single digit rates although higher on alcohol, tobacco and cars.

In June, 2004, Andorra was obliged to accept the EU's Savings Tax Directive, and as from July, 2005, is imposing a withholding tax of 15% (20% from July 1, 2008, 35% from 2011) on returns on savings paid to citizens of Member States of the EU, of which 75% is remitted onwards to the States concerned.

Fail.

The Bahamas-The Bahamas levies neither personal income nor capital gains tax, nor are there inheritance taxes

Though their now is a stamp tax of 7% on goods imported for business use. The absence of income, corporate, and inheritance taxes means that import duties are the main source of Bahamas government revenue.

As a result, tariff rates are very high; the Bahamas raises some 65 percent of its revenues from import tariffs. The general rate of duty charges on imports is 32 percent, though there are numerous exemptions (for example the duty rate on computer equipment is 0%). In 1998, the government eliminated duties on computer software, discs, and some medical goods. In 2000 it eliminated duties on all computer hardware. This duty can be considered a tax.

There is also licensing fee for businesses which can also be considered a "tax" as this license fee can vary with earnings ("gross receipts").

Fail.

Belize- No capital gains tax.

Belizean workers who make less than BZ$20,000 per annum pay no income tax. There is a flat rate of 25% above this threshold. Deductions are also allowed for medical expenses.

Tax is deducted by employers under a 'PAYE' system.
In general, any employment in Belize under a contract of service or apprenticeship, written or oral is insurable employment. This includes employment with the Government and all statutory bodies, employment with a company or firm or by an individual, and employment on board vessels and aircraft whose owner resides or has his principal place of business in Belize.

The employer is responsible for registering employees. When a person is registered as an insured person, the Social Security Board will issue to him/her a " Social Security Registration Card ". The registration Card will show that person's Social Security Number, which he/she must use as reference on all correspondence, claims, etc. when dealing with the board.

For weekly earnings under BZ$40, the contribution is $1.75 (employer $1.63, employee 12 cents).

For weekly earnings up to BZ$69, the contribution is $3.85 (employer $3.30, employee 55 cents).

For weekly earnings up to BZ$90, the contribution is $6.30 (employer $5.40, employee 90 cents).

For weekly earnings above BZ$90, the contribution is $9.10 (employer $7.10, employee $2).

Fail.

Delaware- charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state

The US Federal taxes still apply. Massive fail.

Monaco- does not levy a personal income tax

the Principality is not a "tax-free" territory. All residents pay tax in the form of 19.6pc VAT on all goods and services. Indeed, as the Monegasque VAT system is shared with France, it could even be said that Monaco's residents pay some French tax. Furthermore, corporations face a 33pc tax on profits – unless they can demonstrate that three-quarters of company turnover is generated within the confines of the principality.

Fail.

Nauru– No taxes. Only tax in country is an airport departure tax

Taxes include the Airport Departure tax and the bed tax at the Meneñ Hotel. The 2007-08 Budget saw the increase of existing excises on cigarettes and duty on imports. A tax on sugary foods was also introduced, chiefly to help combat Nauru's diabetes epidemic.

Fail.

Norfolk Island– no personal income tax

Because there is no income tax, the island's legislative assembly raises money through an import duty, fuel levy, medicare levy, GST and local/international phone calls.

Fail.

United Arab Emirates- no personal income tax

Municipality service charges are levied on individuals living and working in the UAE.
There is no federal tax legislation on the taxation of corporations in the UAE; instead each emirate has its own tax.
In most of the emirates, tax is payable by residential and commercial tenants by reference to the annual rent of residential
property at a rate of 5 per cent and for commercial property at 10 per cent of the annual rent.

Fail.

Although, the best attempt so far. For that

[Sibirsky]

So my choice to living in tyranny is to hop the border, evade authorities until I can stow away on a ship. Then jump off when passing by a deserted island, swim ashore and die from lack of food or clean water.

Can you finally admit taxation is coersive?

Can you stop using a deserted island as a country of choice for migration? You're whole premise is that the world outside the US is a deserted waste land. It's not. there's all kinds of people out there, different colors and cultures and everything.

I know, it sounds like science fiction, or fantasy "Others? Outside the US? Impossible!!!" But I assure you that there is a non-deserted world out there.

Name a place other than a deserted island that wouldn't tax me?

Somalia (haha)

But seriously, there's all kinds of countries around the world that are tax havens in some sense.

Name one. And tell us how to leave without having to pay the exit tax.

Andorra: it's in europe with no income, gift, inheritance or capital transfer taxes.

As for getting around the exit tax, that's up to you. Given how looply tax law is, it shouldn't be too hard, but it likely differs from state to state in the United States.

You fail.

[Sibirsky]

No, it is the metaphorical suicide choice to leave. Because there is no where I could go where I wouldn't be taxed. The only option would be to go to an uninhabbited place where I would most likely die from malaria within 3 days. So the options are go be alone on an uninhabbited island, move to someplace where it is exactly the same, or stay here and try to change things. Your GTFO argument is extremely ridiculous.

I'm not saying, GTFO, I'm saying you have a choice to stay and pay taxes, or to leave this country and live elsewhere, such as another country (which do exist).

So you're really saying he has no choice.

Yes I am.

He has a choice of buying the product (living in the United States) or not buying the product.

Of course, if you're saying he doesn't have a choice to live in the United States and not pay the taxes, than that's true, but than they'd be stealing.

No, of paying taxes. You just admitted there's no place where you could be tax free, so really he has no choice. He has to pay taxes where ever he goes, because they're coercive.

Penalty of making that choice. The choice of being born.

Oh, so it's just like the argument that I was born into a social contract,that came into being 200 years ago, therefore I agree and consent to it?

Exactly.

[Dimzul]

Although, the best attempt so far. For that

Ah Sibirsky the Anarcho-Capitalist god. You are truly amazing.

[Sibirsky]

Although, the best attempt so far. For that

Ah Sibirsky the Anarcho-Capitalist god. You are truly amazing.

First time I have been called god. First time for everything I guess. Thanks.
God knows, I even managed to get myself called a commie on this forum.
And sigged. It's probably the last time too.

[The Terragon Isles]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

[Sibirsky]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

[Ellyandia]

Thank you Sibirsky, for doing all that work. I was not up to the task.

[Sibirsky]

Thank you Sibirsky, for doing all that work. I was not up to the task.

No problem. I know no truly tax free place exists.

[Bendira]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Define an "essential service", and then tell me when the governments services have been superior to something the private sector can offer.

[Siorafrica]

I find it hilarious that people say WW1 was awful then go arguing on the internet. They're the same thing really.

[Drachmar]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

[Ellyandia]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

How do you determine a fair share? The system would be a lot better if all the money you put in came back to you, but it doesn't. We'd be more than willing to pay for the benefits ourselves, in a way we see fit.

[Bendira]

You paying for your fair share so your government can provide the sort of services it does (including, I might add, the police force, public education, the military, the judicial system, as well as many other, might I add essential, services) is hardly theft. You are just a greedy bastard and wish for the benefits without the cost, so taxation must be enforced, which I might add is another expense that must be now covered by the rest of the nation. Else, this wouldn't be an issue. Geez man, I must seriously wonder what exactly peoples huge problem with taxes is, that they will vote someone out of office for even the implication of raising them.

Fair share? What if the person went to private school? How is paying for public education fair?

Sure, how about those publicly financed roads you drive upon, or that clean water which you so love to drink? So you pay for schools privately. What about the other public utilities you so enjoy? Just because a family opts out on a public education, does not negate the other benefits of taxation and public infrastructure they utilize on a daily basis.

then tell me when the governments services have been superior to something the private sector can offer.