Germany, and much of the Euro Area laugh at the USA's growth

[New Genoa]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

A worthless index that is biased towards equality.

Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.

Except when the big businesses start failing and we start bailing them out....

Last I checked we were talking individuals...

Exorbitant CEO bonuses for driving their companies into the ground? Either way, capitalism does not work that way. It works the way those in power want it to..

[Caninope]

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

The EU is hardly a united force. You can't compare a loose collection of States and the USA.

Combine the USA, Canada and Mexico and you have a higher GDP.

Yes, it's NAFTA.

You can't compare a an agreement to a political/economic organization.

And you can't compare a political organization to a nation.

[Karsol]

GO EU!!!

But, with places like China and Turkey flourishing, State Capitalism is the new Laissez-faire.

I wouldn't got that far. China's got problems building that make ours look tame in comparison.

You mean china social awareness or something else? I am actually quite ignorant in economic matters that stray from my expertise in buisness administration and accountancy.

[Vetalia]

You mean china social awareness or something else? I am actually quite ignorant in economic matters that stray from my expertise in administration.

Basically a huge asset bubble, growing labor/social unrest, endemic corruption, and inequality, and environmental degradation that is posing a serious danger to many of the country's major cities. This is basically China's bottleneck; it can't keep going on its current path without collapse, but it can't risk overambitious reform without risking political or economic instability that would cause collapse. How China plays out this situation will ultimately determine its position in the world economy going forward; they are either going to rise even further to prominence or dwindle to a moderate player at best, but one thing's for sure: they can't keep going as they are and whatever direction they take, their system will change fundamentally and permanently.

[City 9]

BBC News: German economy sees 'record' growth of 2.2%.

-----------------------------------------

A) Obviously never learnt about 'Hyperinflation'.
B) ...And we all know what happened after that.
C) Run Poland Run!!!
D) Fuck you France, we're not saving you this time, we have the Olympics to prepare for.

I hate such comments. If you would really live in Germany, you would know that nearly any other state in Europe has more national pride than Germany.

Edit: To say something to the topic:
Nobody here in Germany laughs about the USA. Why should we? We´ve got so much problems ourselves, that there is no time for laughing about anyone else.

[Cosmopoles]

I think EU parliaments also have ways of dealing with hung parliaments better than the US does. I'm sure we'd have more effective politicians if we didn't vote so rigidly along party lines -- which means politicians now need to pander to lots of groups, with some groups (religious right, anyone?) getting more attention than others. All we have in congress is bickering...how many European countries have approval ratings of their own legislatures lower than the US Congress?

But alas, that's more related to the US electoral system, and off-topic.

Eh, we vote along party lines in Europe as well. Perhaps the main difference is that few European countries suffer the same legislative deadlock as the US with the obvious exception of Belgium. We don't seem to have the same fear of our governments actually doing stuff. So even though the single currency limits some of the economic possibilities for European countries the fact that our governments are usually capable of acting when they need to helps make up for it.

[Rolamec]

The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged
BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10962017
Well, they may as well given recent figures. Except Portugal, Spain and especially Greece...

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

Feels pretty damn good, considering that you can only match our GDP if you combine all of the Eurozone. And from what I can tell the heavy welfare programs are devastating the economies of Spain, Portugal and Greece (as you said), and if they fall, guess who they are taking with them? The rest of Europe. *Flips you off*

[Caninope]

The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged
BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10962017
Well, they may as well given recent figures. Except Portugal, Spain and especially Greece...

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

Feels pretty damn good, considering that you can only match our GDP if you combine all of the Eurozone. And from what I can tell the heavy welfare programs are devastating the economies of Spain, Portugal and Greece (as you said), and if they fall, guess who they are taking with them? The rest of Europe. *Flips you off*

I have a newfound respect for you.

[Nova Magna Germania]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

Is 80 million Germany supposed to match 300 million USA?

[Ad Nihilo]

You mean china social awareness or something else? I am actually quite ignorant in economic matters that stray from my expertise in administration.

Basically a huge asset bubble, growing labor/social unrest, endemic corruption, and inequality, and environmental degradation that is posing a serious danger to many of the country's major cities. This is basically China's bottleneck; it can't keep going on its current path without collapse, but it can't risk overambitious reform without risking political or economic instability that would cause collapse. How China plays out this situation will ultimately determine its position in the world economy going forward; they are either going to rise even further to prominence or dwindle to a moderate player at best, but one thing's for sure: they can't keep going as they are and whatever direction they take, their system will change fundamentally and permanently.

Hmm... I'm not too sure about this. The Chinese government have a very strong control on capital flows, and have even moved to curb dangerous tendencies well in advance (hence their targeted growth level this year is 8%, rather than the over 10% that would have otherwise occurred). It kind of helps that they do not need to pander to a GDP obsessed electorate like we have here in the West (where, as this thread suggests, the GDP figures of your country make your e-penis larger in an exponential manner). And of course, the other thing the Chinese have is an awareness of their own problems, the political will to tackle them and the bureaucratic capacity to do so.

Labour unrest is quite natural with rapid large scale industrialization (because of the social displacement it causes), and all other industrial countries seem to have survived that period of their development quite well. I find the hardline approach of the Chinese government quite regrettable, but I suppose they know better how to manage their population in their culture.

The only major worry I share with you is China's environmental issues, and the fact that the government does seem quite clueless on that front. I don't really know how they are tackling this, but surely they are starting to smart about it, no?

[Sibirsky]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

Your point? Why are you comparing 27 countries to only 1?

[Nova Magna Germania]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

Your point? Why are you comparing 27 countries to only 1?

Why are u comparing a country of 300 million people with countries whose populations range from 500k to 80 million?

[Nova Magna Germania]

The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged
BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10962017
Well, they may as well given recent figures. Except Portugal, Spain and especially Greece...

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

Feels pretty damn good, considering that you can only match our GDP if you combine all of the Eurozone. And from what I can tell the heavy welfare programs are devastating the economies of Spain, Portugal and Greece (as you said), and if they fall, guess who they are taking with them? The rest of Europe. *Flips you off*

The most extensive welfare programs are in Scandinavia and Scandinavian economies are way better than yours, and Scandinavian countries enjoy higher living standards.

[Sibirsky]

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.

Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.

Are you illiterate or something?

The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

The EU is hardly a united force. You can't compare a loose collection of States and the USA.

It can be compared in many ways, like GDP, economic growth and such. The point is that the one thing those in the USA who are scathing about across the pond; the economy, and how apparently the USA's more laissez faire economics is superior, and how the welfare system and things like universal healthcare will break or bankrupt a state or make it economically less powerful? Recent figures disagree with that assessment.

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

1 country versus 44747747474 countries...
Ill take my chances.

Oh, so you're changing the topic, because you won't admit the USA isn't as economically powerful as the EU? We with our national health services and welfare states are apparently better at economic growth than "land of the free" USA? Go on... say it. Your own economic and social systems are unfortunately flawed, not progressive, in terms of income inequality OR GDP growth. The USA can't handle large market crashes, invasions, occupations, social progressiveness, post-recession economic growth these days, compared to it's European peers... tell me, what is it especially good at these days? I like the USA, but you guys clearly have a lot to fix to catch up! True progressiveness will only come about whenever most people admit your system is inferior. Protecting a delusion won't help you, it'll only cripple your nations in years to come.

GDP/capita
US $46,400
EU $32,600
Now stop trolling.

[Sibirsky]

It can be compared in many ways, like GDP, economic growth and such. The point is that the one thing those in the USA who are scathing about across the pond; the economy, and how apparently the USA's more laissez faire economics is superior, and how the welfare system and things like universal healthcare will break or bankrupt a state or make it economically less powerful? Recent figures disagree with that assessment.

Population of the EU: 501 million

Population of the US: 300 million

Differences in GDP: 2.2 trillion

Riiight.

I wonder what it'll be like when the eastern bloc members develop to a western standard. Can you hazard a guess?

It'll be like 5 decades from now.

[Sibirsky]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

1 country versus 44747747474 countries...
Ill take my chances.

America is 50 states, the EU is 30-40 states.

America is a continent.
The United States is 1 country. The EU is 27.

[Sibirsky]

Yes, although the original point was never an attack on transatlantic trade. Rather, an attempt to point out that the American system isn't the best for the die hards who are convinced it is.

America is making some mistakes. By becoming more like Europe.
Your entire thread is trolling. Starting with the title.

[Marcurix]

The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged
BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10962017
Well, they may as well given recent figures. Except Portugal, Spain and especially Greece...

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

While its nice to see some strong growth comming out of the Eurozone, it really shouldnt matter that it has come out larger than the USA in a quarter, because those figures can change rapidly. Come back at the yearly report and maybe you can be a little happy.

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

Irrelevant really to an economic disscussion, not to mention an exageration. One could easily point to the happenings in Arizona and Florida.

1 country versus 44747747474 countries...

Try 27



It does not matter that much, really it does not.

[Maxedon]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

Dude, you DO realize that your comparing ONE country to like 15 or twenty?

[Aiestonia]

As much as I'd like Germany's and the Eurozones economic growth to be an indicator of Europe's economic über awesomeness... It isn't.
Europe has a number of very fundamental economic problems, that are much more sever than the US'.
Mainly;
1) A much more rapidly ageing and already significantly older population.
2) Too large welfare states in western Europe, stricter labour laws, to early pension ages etc..
3) A lack of elite institutions in R&D and education.
4) The lack of cohesiveness among European leaders, and sclerosis when it comes to action. (The austerity programs the commission and Merkel want forcefed are an exception to this, trust me).
5) Big trade imbalances within the EU. (among intra Eu trade).
6) Government deficits (Yes. as a % of GDP they are at places larger than in the US). Ironically enough, the supposed vanguard of austerity herself (Good old Deutschland) has a higher government deficit as a % of GDP then the US. (Check the stats someone sent earlier).

As for german growth...
Germany is enormously dependant on exports. It is, in many ways, Europe's China. This means, that when there is strong foreign demand (in this case especially in Asia) naturally the economy will grow better. Another contributing factor to stronger GDP growth in Germany and the Eurozone (right now) is the weakening of the Euro. Countries like germany, which are heavily export oriented, like for example Sweden and the Netherlands, are going to prosper right now, because growth in Asia is strong, because the Euro has weakened, etc. The more import oriented coutries, like italy, spain, etc. don't benefit as much.

Anyway, the important part of what I'm trying to say is that whether or not the EU happens to have stronger economic growth than the US right now doesn't matter... because trust me, it won't stay that way. Not for the big continental economies, and probably not for Germany. And not for the Eurozone.
Look at this for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _estimates.
Anybody with basic arithmetic skills can see that according to this example, the US will steadilyt be cathing up with the EU in terms of GDP, in just 5 years.
If go even further into the future, (2050) and look at this GDP comparison between the present day EU 27 and the US...

Look at these4 IMF projections of future GDP growth: http://www.carnegieendowment.org/public ... w&id=24195

[Maurepas]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU as a whole however...

[The Antarctic Lands]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

True, but wouldn't you like to be out of a recession?

Eh, the recession has its perks.

Like what? Making the Repubs more unpopular?

The numbers indicate otherwise...

But it has its benefits when buying real estate or hiring individuals...

It's always nice to be able to hire people to do hard labor for minimum wage.

[The Antarctic Lands]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

Dude, you DO realize that your comparing ONE country to like 15 or twenty?

As opposed to comparing Germany to a country 3.75x it's size?

[Valkenburg aan de Geul]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

1 country versus 44747747474 countries...
Ill take my chances.

America is 50 states, the EU is 30-40 states.

America is a continent.
The United States is 1 country. The EU is 27.

Meh, within 5 years the EU is 1 country anyway.

[The Antarctic Lands]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

1 country versus 44747747474 countries...
Ill take my chances.

America is 50 states, the EU is 30-40 states.

America is a continent.
The United States is 1 country. The EU is 27.

North and South America have conjoined?