"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[Dass Alte Reich]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare. The answer is centrist authoritarianism. Either way we're both talking about big government, so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed. At least the reason Fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world in an epic war.

[Liuzzo]

What if there are?
Doesn't change the fact that they have the legal right to build it where they are building it.
Or are you against property rights and freedom of religion?
Why do you hate America?

again please show the reasoning that being against this mosque being built there means I hate America?

The US stands for freedom of religion and freedom to own property, right?
Here, you are showing your dislike for those values, therefore showing your dislike for the US.

Ignore or not ignore?

ignore him because he is right?

I was telling the poster he had a choice. Ignore or not to ignore angry, irrational quasi-trolls.

[Enadail]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare. The answer is centrist authoritarianism. Either way we're both talking about big government, so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed. At least the reason Fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world in an epic war.

Capitalism is an ideal, in reality its doomed to failure... because humans are greedy bastards.

And leftism and welfare are problems? No, its a failure to create welfare programs that are viable that's the problem, and that's what the US has done... create welfare programs that take out more then they put in. By the way, so called "leftism" drives the world. There are numerous "left" ideas the right would never oppose (the majority of the right anyway). Most conservatives are just liberals who can't bring themselves to admit it (racial rights, woman's rights, medicare (though I think its a failed system), public services like free education through high school, these are all "left" ideas, at their time).

Nazism failed because it places one person above another... by the way, communism failed because it did the same thing, because true communism cannot exist in this world for the same reason true capitalism cannot.

Social capitalism, like many countries in Europe follow, is the best answer: give everyone an equal start, then let them succeed/fail based on their own merits.

[Kalibarr]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare. The answer is centrist authoritarianism. Either way we're both talking about big government, so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed. At least the reason Fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world in an epic war.

Being Poor=/= Not Working Hard

[Jervak]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers1...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare2. The answer is centrist authoritarianism.3 Either way we're both talking about big government,4 so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed.5 At least the reason fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world.6

1The fuck? Capitalism is the reason for unemployment in the first place. In Communism, everyone would have job.

2 Helping fund things for everyone is evil is it? Helping funding for free, universal healthcare is problem? Free education is a problem? And funding welfare for people who need it is a problem? It seems to me you don't care about the collective.

3 No, I'm pretty sure Fascism is Right-Wing in most senses of the word

4 It's not necessarily how big the government is that's the problem, it's who's interests it SERVES. In your perfect little Capitalist society it's the richest 5% or so.

5 Didn't suck for the country as a whole (Even though it wasn't Communism, it was more of a Statist Authoritarian Socialism), turning into a superpower and all that.

6 With good reason too.

[Liuzzo]

Peoples right to worship who they want, and practice their relgions is fine, and should be fine.

However, building this mosque so close to 'Ground Zero' isn't right, in my opinion anyway, because thousands of people lost family, and thousands of people lost their lives. Mainly because of the people who flew the plane into the world trade centre - who were muslims. I've nothing against muslims at all, but killing people, isn't right at all. No matter what they've done to you, there is no reasoning or justification for this. And I feel, Americans deserve to have this site, kept clear, of anything and especially something that represents the people who did this - so they can go and remember their family/friends in peace.

It's 2 blocks away.

The din about the Cordoba Cultural Center (with included mosque) being built near Ground Zero has grown nearly inescapable, with conservatives from all over the country (though very few actually from New York), saying the project is an outrage.

But how close is too close? There are obviously other mosques in Manhattan at an acceptable, inoffensive distance from Ground Zero. Using a list generated by IslamiCity.com, I've mapped the distances between those mosques in New York and Ground Zero. The Cordoba Cultural Center would be .22 miles from the center of Ground Zero. Another mosque is already located .35 miles from the center (you can click on the lines to see their distance).

So, there you have it: If the mosque were being constructed a mere 686 feet from its current location, there would be no outcry, right?

http://www.good.is/post/there-is-already-a-mosque-less-than-a-mile-from-ground-zero/

[Ashmoria]

What if there are?
Doesn't change the fact that they have the legal right to build it where they are building it.
Or are you against property rights and freedom of religion?
Why do you hate America?

again please show the reasoning that being against this mosque being built there means I hate America?

The US stands for freedom of religion and freedom to own property, right?
Here, you are showing your dislike for those values, therefore showing your dislike for the US.

Ignore or not ignore?

ignore him because he is right?

I was telling the poster he had a choice. Ignore or not to ignore angry, irrational quasi-trolls.

oops my bad.

[Liuzzo]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

i didnt read the book .... his step father wasnt muslim?

He was. I don't see the importance of this, though.

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

Because conservatives in the media and congress have been making a big stink about it. If people weren't being stupid about it he never would have said a word.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

i didnt read the book .... his step father wasnt muslim?

He was. I don't see the importance of this, though.

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

It. Was. Not. His. Childhood. Faith.

Is this clear enough? And it is definitely important enough for the President to comment on. It is an issue that has attracted national attention and is very contentious. It divides the American people. I think the president has the responsibility to address it somehow. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

[Farnhamia]

Peoples right to worship who they want, and practice their relgions is fine, and should be fine.

However, building this mosque so close to 'Ground Zero' isn't right, in my opinion anyway, because thousands of people lost family, and thousands of people lost their lives. Mainly because of the people who flew the plane into the world trade centre - who were muslims. I've nothing against muslims at all, but killing people, isn't right at all. No matter what they've done to you, there is no reasoning or justification for this. And I feel, Americans deserve to have this site, kept clear, of anything and especially something that represents the people who did this - so they can go and remember their family/friends in peace.

You know, I'm trying to think of any place in the United States, any that is not a military base, where only American citizens are allowed go. Not coming up with any. You might also be interested in the 310 non-American casualties.

[DEFCON-1]

Quite frankly, I don't really think this was something the President should have commented on.

I do agree that they have every right to build their Mosque, however. I do think it's inappropriate, but the beauty of America is that they don't really have to care what I think.

[Liuzzo]

I would say its radical, since the Imam in charge refuses to denounce Hamas¹.. and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing².. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government³... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

1 and 2: source?
3: Elitist is just a buzz-word.

1: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manh ... nfuQcrcabL

2: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-be ... 02569.html

3: they ARE elitist, if they don't respect the positions of their constituents.. no? they value their own positions more than the peoples, makes them elitist.

From your own source on #2.

Fifty-two percent of the respondents said they did not want the mosque to be built at all, 31 percent are in favor of it, and 17 percent are undecided.

That pretty much means 52-51 right? And it's 1 poll right?

"New York enjoys a reputation as one of the most tolerant places in America, but New Yorkers are opposed to a proposal to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero," said Quinnipiac University Polling Institute Director Maurice Carroll in a press release.

"Is it because we're still nursing the wounds from the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center or is it more like bigotry?" he asked.

Broken down by borough, Manhattan was the most in favor of the mosque, with only 36 percent of residents against it. On the other end of the spectrum was Staten Island, where 73 percent of respondents were opposed.

Ah, so people in Manhattan that live where this will be built support it. Oh, and take a look at the margin of error of 2.9% points. This means even that 52-51 is in jeopardy. The poll is also from Jul 2nd so it's probably not so reliable now. Polls are snapshots and things change.

Also, #1, he refused to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization. Hamas is an actual world government at this time are they not? Or you're fine with denying the will of their people? Because you're an elitist and you think as an American you are better than them? You see how easy that works?

[Liuzzo]

3: they ARE elitist, if they don't respect the positions of their constituents.. no? they value their own positions more than the peoples, makes them elitist.

They also swore to uphold a constitution that forbids that sort of thing, and holds that rights are not subject to popular opinion. But only elitists follow the constitution of their country

uhh.. where it the constitution does it guarantee where a building can be built? it doesnt.. it just says you have freedom of religion.. these 2 things are separate issues... we have zoning laws dictating where such building can be built, but you dont see people whining about the location of where the building is.... so why does this building have to be so close to such a historically sensitive area, if they aren't trying to poke americans in the eye?

And why do you keep ignoring that the zoning authorities have approved the fucking location? By your own admission you no longer have an argument.

[Liuzzo]

uhh.. where it the constitution does it guarantee where a building can be built? it doesnt.. it just says you have freedom of religion.. these 2 things are separate issues... we have zoning laws dictating where such building can be built, but you dont see people whining about the location of where the building is.... so why does this building have to be so close to such a historically sensitive area, if they aren't trying to poke americans in the eye?

Constitution gives them freedom or religion.
Building and property laws give them the freedom to build them there.
Considering your flag, I'd think you would uphold this great example of capitalism/free market/etc.
The only people poking anyone in the eye are people like you who toss all Muslims in with the radicals.
Kinda like if I were to toss you in with the nutcases from the Westboro Baptist Church.
But I'm sure you'll find that a completely different situation.

"Building and property laws give them the freedom to build them there."
you better get familiar with building codes then, cuz that definitely is not part of it... if we had total freedom of building, there would be no zoning codes.

And as for titles you assign me? wtg on going ad hominem... like your opinion of me really affects me, i really dont give a rats ass what you think about me.

It's already been approved building inspector gadget!!!! So your argument is done! NEXT!

[Liuzzo]

yes, i am against democracy... its 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.. its tyrrany of the majority.. and me hating freedom? please... I'm just a libertarian in name only i guess.

Judging by your positional statements in here, yes... You are libertarian in name only. You're advocating to use governmental power to deny property rights, you're acting in ways opposed to people's first amendment religious practice protections and speech, and you're simultaneously arguing about polled numbers while also calling democracy "tyranny of the majority"... To be honest, you don't actually even resemble a single core concept of "libertarian"... So you are "libertarian" in name only.

splendid he/she won't accept that though even though you've shown reasoning. They'll just say it's ad hominem which they are using in the wrong way as well.

[Liuzzo]

you need to study your forms of government more then, it sounds like you dont know what republic is.. and what democracy is... republic protects the rights of the minority, a democracy doesnt... it the majority that makes all the rules... and im deadset against that idea.

Funny...

and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

One wonders at this point which time you were lying. When you brought up poll numbers and "elitism" in government as a grounds for opposition of the Mosque, or now when you claim you believe the opposite.... Or maybe simply that you vaccilate on it depending on whether the majority agrees with you or not (more likely).

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

It's funny. Anytime anyone nails you it turns to "ad hominem" and I can ignore anything I want. Keep it up dude you're adding to your glorious reputation here. He used your own words against you as other have. Answer this! They have all the permits and such so why do you keep bringing up permits? You're clearly wrong but you won't admit it. Admitting when you're wrong is a mature response. Crying ad hominem and the world is picking on me is childlike. I think everyone reading this thread has your pegged. Go one being right in your own head because you won't admit it's possible for you to be wrong. You got nailed by your own claims so take it like a man.

[Liuzzo]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare. The answer is centrist authoritarianism. Either way we're both talking about big government, so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed. At least the reason Fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world in an epic war.

Capitalism is an ideal, in reality its doomed to failure... because humans are greedy bastards.

And leftism and welfare are problems? No, its a failure to create welfare programs that are viable that's the problem, and that's what the US has done... create welfare programs that take out more then they put in. By the way, so called "leftism" drives the world. There are numerous "left" ideas the right would never oppose (the majority of the right anyway). Most conservatives are just liberals who can't bring themselves to admit it (racial rights, woman's rights, medicare (though I think its a failed system), public services like free education through high school, these are all "left" ideas, at their time).

Nazism failed because it places one person above another... by the way, communism failed because it did the same thing, because true communism cannot exist in this world for the same reason true capitalism cannot.

Social capitalism, like many countries in Europe follow, is the best answer: give everyone an equal start, then let them succeed/fail based on their own merits.

Holy thread fucking jack people. You haven't addressed anything related to the topic in around 10 posts. Economic/Social theory unrelated to topic elsewhere please and thank you.

[Dass Alte Reich]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers1...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare2. The answer is centrist authoritarianism.3 Either way we're both talking about big government,4 so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed.5 At least the reason fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world.6

1The fuck? Capitalism is the reason for unemployment in the first place. In Communism, everyone would have job.

2 Helping fund things for everyone is evil is it? Helping funding for free, universal healthcare is problem? Free education is a problem? And funding welfare for people who need it is a problem? It seems to me you don't care about the collective.

3 No, I'm pretty sure Fascism is Right-Wing in most senses of the word

4 It's not necessarily how big the government is that's the problem, it's who's interests it SERVES. In your perfect little Capitalist society it's the richest 5% or so.

5 Didn't suck for the country as a whole (Even though it wasn't Communism, it was more of a Statist Authoritarian Socialism), turning into a superpower and all that.

6 With good reason too.

Oh I care about the collective, but education is out of context I'm speaking about taking money from those who earn it to fund the existence of those who don't deserve it. Here is how to make a better America.

A single party authoritarian dictation with one leader who appoints ministers, I love that we have the ability to vote, but the party system has divided us into bitter infighting such as the argument being held between us right now, You being a Communist, and me being a Fascist. The single party system also insures productivity, where as the bitter in fighting we see today is brought on by our indecision. No man would be judged by his race, religion or gender, these things do not inhibit your ability to do work(in general). Instead a man must be judged upon his loyalty to the state and his ability to do work for a greater cause. One of the greatest things about America is our right to private property. Any money earned within this new state will be kept by it's owner(the earner) unless it's for tax which would go to the state, but never a tax that would give money directly to someone undeserving (Welfare). The only people who should receive money from the people are Veterans, families of those born with sever mental and/or physical disabilities, people over 75 and Politicians specifically the Kaiser(when I say Kaiser I do not mean a monarch, but an emperor appointed by his predecessor), but not ridiculous amounts like kings have had in the past....something on par with that of our current president.Here is my resolution to your whining about unemployment. My idea of welfare was introduced on a thread about what to do with welfare, but because I don't wish to dig it up, Ill just give you a brief overview. I call it the NWS or New Welfare System, in which welfare is completely abolished, and the NWS would be placed in it's spot. The NWS program would be hundreds of government jobs in road repair, construction, military and other such areas until those employed fined a job in their trade. But where does the money come from? Well after the abolition of our shitty welfare all funds would be diverted to the NWS. AHA! This is redistribution! Yes...yes it is, but now it is justified. No longer is the averages middle class taxpayers money going to idling crackheads, now it's going to government workers. If you want other peoples money, it is no longer free...you must work for it. As for the those who choose not to embrace this new program, they should be left behind by the rest of society. A strong tenet in the new Amerika would be Social Darwinism. You compete or you are left behind. This does not mean we are breading a generation of un-compassionate A-holes....NO AND NO AGAIN! Compassion would be shown through giving to goodwill and donation to charities, not the robbery of the REAL protalitariats to give to the idlers in what you leftists like to call "Social Justice" the biggest injustice in the capitalist system. The embracing of Social Darwinism will ultimately produce a nation of strong Amerikans who work and function based on their own abilities. You don't need a holocaust to sort out those fit to live from those who aren't, it is no humans choice whether someone deserves to live other then each individual on his own basis. Your life is your responsibility not ours, what you do with it is your choice, you choose to be a crack head and go to jail....your choice, you choose to do nothing and receive other people money while bitching about how you are in the lower class....your choice. You choose to do good in school and get a successful job, your choice. "Those who wish to live, let them fight. Those who do not wish to live in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live" - Adolf Hitler a sad fact but a true one, thus why your perfect communist ideas do not and will not work. Trust me, if this were a perfect world I would be all over Communism like a fly on shit..... but it's not, and you must face the fact that most if not all great things we have today have been born out of opportunity...something that communist economics does not permit. Why should Bill Gates make as much as me, I am 17 and I clean dishes for spare cash to take arm candy out every once in a while, he invented the PC and has become one of the richest people in the world....what makes me equal to him, what he has done with his life was his choice and his pursuit, what I do with mine is mine, maybe Ill be richer then him one day, only time will tell. But I would not expect him to have to receive the same amount of money as me because it's not fare that he is more successful then me. If you don't see the logic behind this there is no hope for you and I am sorry for that. But realize that Communism will never work like the Capitalist Free and Authoritarian countries. As for education I believe we should use Germany's Gymnasium system in order to purge the Amerikan school system of those unfit to be in it, and to create spheres of influence within each school. No longer will that badass failure have an effect on the Nerd who wants to get all the ass the Failure gets. Now failures will be with failures, average with average and scientists with scientists. Of course they would all start in the same place, and their test scores will ultimately decide their fate, but they can still move in out of the education levels by testing out and such. To stick them in a school based on there test scores with out any opportunity to better themselves would be a crime and a reason enough to make this whole argument null und void. This is just part of my plan for the new and improved United States. Hell I am almost half inspired to post a thread with everything laid out to see what people think. But for now know that my ideas may not be 100% correct , but they are 100% more correct then yours. Communism will fail, it always has and it always will. The laws and control the government needs to make it work will never be embraced by the people or the rest of the world. If it isn't Stalinism then what is it....you still have to take everything away from the people, and you can't make us love each other enough to make equal pay for unequal work.

[Union Soviet Socialist]

Oh I care about the collective, but education is out of context I'm speaking about taking money from those who earn it to fund the existence of those who don't deserve it. Here is how to make a better America.

A single party authoritarian dictation with one leader who appoints ministers, I love that we have the ability to vote, but the party system has divided us into bitter infighting such as the argument being held between us right now, You being a Communist, and me being a Fascist. The single party system also insures productivity, where as the bitter in fighting we see today is brought on by our indecision. No man would be judged by his race, religion or gender, these things do not inhibit your ability to do work(in general). Instead a man must be judged upon his loyalty to the state and his ability to do work for a greater cause. One of the greatest things about America is our right to private property. Any money earned within this new state will be kept by it's owner(the earner) unless it's for tax which would go to the state, but never a tax that would give money directly to someone undeserving (Welfare). The only people who should receive money from the people are Veterans, families of those born with sever mental and/or physical disabilities, people over 75 and Politicians specifically the Kaiser(when I say Kaiser I do not mean a monarch, but an emperor appointed by his predecessor), but not ridiculous amounts like kings have had in the past....something on par with that of our current president.Here is my resolution to your whining about unemployment. My idea of welfare was introduced on a thread about what to do with welfare, but because I don't wish to dig it up, Ill just give you a brief overview. I call it the NWS or New Welfare System, in which welfare is completely abolished, and the NWS would be placed in it's spot. The NWS program would be hundreds of government jobs in road repair, construction, military and other such areas until those employed fined a job in their trade. But where does the money come from? Well after the abolition of our shitty welfare all funds would be diverted to the NWS. AHA! This is redistribution! Yes...yes it is, but now it is justified. No longer is the averages middle class taxpayers money going to idling crackheads, now it's going to government workers. If you want other peoples money, it is no longer free...you must work for it. As for the those who choose not to embrace this new program, they should be left behind by the rest of society. A strong tenet in the new Amerika would be Social Darwinism. You compete or you are left behind. This does not mean we are breading a generation of un-compassionate A-holes....NO AND NO AGAIN! Compassion would be shown through giving to goodwill and donation to charities, not the robbery of the REAL protalitariats to give to the idlers in what you leftists like to call "Social Justice" the biggest injustice in the capitalist system. The embracing of Social Darwinism will ultimately produce a nation of strong Amerikans who work and function based on their own abilities. You don't need a holocaust to sort out those fit to live from those who aren't, it is no humans choice whether someone deserves to live other then each individual on his own basis. Your life is your responsibility not ours, what you do with it is your choice, you choose to be a crack head and go to jail....your choice, you choose to do nothing and receive other people money while bitching about how you are in the lower class....your choice. You choose to do good in school and get a successful job, your choice. "Those who wish to live, let them fight. Those who do not wish to live in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live" - Adolf Hitler a sad fact but a true one, thus why your perfect communist ideas do not and will not work. Trust me, if this were a perfect world I would be all over Communism like a fly on shit..... but it's not, and you must face the fact that most if not all great things we have today have been born out of opportunity...something that communist economics does not permit. Why should Bill Gates make as much as me, I am 17 and I clean dishes for spare cash to take arm candy out every once in a while, he invented the PC and has become one of the richest people in the world....what makes me equal to him, what he has done with his life was his choice and his pursuit, what I do with mine is mine, maybe Ill be richer then him one day, only time will tell. But I would not expect him to have to receive the same amount of money as me because it's not fare that he is more successful then me. If you don't see the logic behind this there is no hope for you and I am sorry for that. But realize that Communism will never work like the Capitalist Free and Authoritarian countries. As for education I believe we should use Germany's Gymnasium system in order to purge the Amerikan school system of those unfit to be in it, and to create spheres of influence within each school. No longer will that badass failure have an effect on the Nerd who wants to get all the ass the Failure gets. Now failures will be with failures, average with average and scientists with scientists. Of course they would all start in the same place, and their test scores will ultimately decide their fate, but they can still move in out of the education levels by testing out and such. To stick them in a school based on there test scores with out any opportunity to better themselves would be a crime and a reason enough to make this whole argument null und void. This is just part of my plan for the new and improved United States. Hell I am almost half inspired to post a thread with everything laid out to see what people think. But for now know that my ideas may not be 100% correct , but they are 100% more correct then yours. Communism will fail, it always has and it always will. The laws and control the government needs to make it work will never be embraced by the people or the rest of the world. If it isn't Stalinism then what is it....you still have to take everything away from the people, and you can't make us love each other enough to make equal pay for unequal work.

Ok... reading your post. Is worse in my opinion than watching Palin or Nikki Haley talk on TV. Capitalism is a bad idea that has been implemented correctly with a Democratic system ensuring that big businesses aren't the governing body who would more than likely strip you of all your rights to ensure that you can't do shit against them.

Communism however, is a good idea that hs been incorrectly implemented with a totalitarian system that did not do what the people wanted. The USSR did strip the people of many of their rights and made sure that the people couldn't challenge the government's authority. You need a Democratic political system to ensure that what the people want is done but the Democracy must be controlled and must have a direct voice from the people to prevent mindless, political infighting from political workers (i.e. the US system).

[Enadail]

As are all communists by law of reality...."some are just more equal then others"

Good for you, you've read Animal Farm.

Good for you, you live in a dream....Soviet..

Nah, I live in reality (Where we have classes). It's just I know why reality sucks for most people and how you stop it.

Oh you do do you....and that is achieved by taking others hard earned cash and giving it to idlers1...yea what a resolution to our problems.....here's the reason for our problems.....Leftism and welfare2. The answer is centrist authoritarianism.3 Either way we're both talking about big government,4 so don't give me any of that Nazi totalitarian name calling BS. Communism is a joke, wake up and realize that Capitalism is the answer and dependency on welfare only create further class conflict. The Soviet Union already tried communism...it sucked and it failed.5 At least the reason fascism and Nazism failed was because they were eradicated by the rest of the world.6

1The fuck? Capitalism is the reason for unemployment in the first place. In Communism, everyone would have job.

2 Helping fund things for everyone is evil is it? Helping funding for free, universal healthcare is problem? Free education is a problem? And funding welfare for people who need it is a problem? It seems to me you don't care about the collective.

3 No, I'm pretty sure Fascism is Right-Wing in most senses of the word

4 It's not necessarily how big the government is that's the problem, it's who's interests it SERVES. In your perfect little Capitalist society it's the richest 5% or so.

5 Didn't suck for the country as a whole (Even though it wasn't Communism, it was more of a Statist Authoritarian Socialism), turning into a superpower and all that.

6 With good reason too.

Oh I care about the collective, but education is out of context I'm speaking about taking money from those who earn it to fund the existence of those who don't deserve it. Here is how to make a better America.

A single party authoritarian dictation with one leader who appoints ministers, I love that we have the ability to vote, but the party system has divided us into bitter infighting such as the argument being held between us right now, You being a Communist, and me being a Fascist. The single party system also insures productivity, where as the bitter in fighting we see today is brought on by our indecision. No man would be judged by his race, religion or gender, these things do not inhibit your ability to do work(in general). Instead a man must be judged upon his loyalty to the state and his ability to do work for a greater cause. One of the greatest things about America is our right to private property. Any money earned within this new state will be kept by it's owner(the earner) unless it's for tax which would go to the state, but never a tax that would give money directly to someone undeserving (Welfare). The only people who should receive money from the people are Veterans, families of those born with sever mental and/or physical disabilities, people over 75 and Politicians specifically the Kaiser(when I say Kaiser I do not mean a monarch, but an emperor appointed by his predecessor), but not ridiculous amounts like kings have had in the past....something on par with that of our current president.Here is my resolution to your whining about unemployment. My idea of welfare was introduced on a thread about what to do with welfare, but because I don't wish to dig it up, Ill just give you a brief overview. I call it the NWS or New Welfare System, in which welfare is completely abolished, and the NWS would be placed in it's spot. The NWS program would be hundreds of government jobs in road repair, construction, military and other such areas until those employed fined a job in their trade. But where does the money come from? Well after the abolition of our shitty welfare all funds would be diverted to the NWS. AHA! This is redistribution! Yes...yes it is, but now it is justified. No longer is the averages middle class taxpayers money going to idling crackheads, now it's going to government workers. If you want other peoples money, it is no longer free...you must work for it. As for the those who choose not to embrace this new program, they should be left behind by the rest of society. A strong tenet in the new Amerika would be Social Darwinism. You compete or you are left behind. This does not mean we are breading a generation of un-compassionate A-holes....NO AND NO AGAIN! Compassion would be shown through giving to goodwill and donation to charities, not the robbery of the REAL protalitariats to give to the idlers in what you leftists like to call "Social Justice" the biggest injustice in the capitalist system. The embracing of Social Darwinism will ultimately produce a nation of strong Amerikans who work and function based on their own abilities. You don't need a holocaust to sort out those fit to live from those who aren't, it is no humans choice whether someone deserves to live other then each individual on his own basis. Your life is your responsibility not ours, what you do with it is your choice, you choose to be a crack head and go to jail....your choice, you choose to do nothing and receive other people money while bitching about how you are in the lower class....your choice. You choose to do good in school and get a successful job, your choice. "Those who wish to live, let them fight. Those who do not wish to live in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live" - Adolf Hitler a sad fact but a true one, thus why your perfect communist ideas do not and will not work. Trust me, if this were a perfect world I would be all over Communism like a fly on shit..... but it's not, and you must face the fact that most if not all great things we have today have been born out of opportunity...something that communist economics does not permit. Why should Bill Gates make as much as me, I am 17 and I clean dishes for spare cash to take arm candy out every once in a while, he invented the PC and has become one of the richest people in the world....what makes me equal to him, what he has done with his life was his choice and his pursuit, what I do with mine is mine, maybe Ill be richer then him one day, only time will tell. But I would not expect him to have to receive the same amount of money as me because it's not fare that he is more successful then me. If you don't see the logic behind this there is no hope for you and I am sorry for that. But realize that Communism will never work like the Capitalist Free and Authoritarian countries. As for education I believe we should use Germany's Gymnasium system in order to purge the Amerikan school system of those unfit to be in it, and to create spheres of influence within each school. No longer will that badass failure have an effect on the Nerd who wants to get all the ass the Failure gets. Now failures will be with failures, average with average and scientists with scientists. Of course they would all start in the same place, and their test scores will ultimately decide their fate, but they can still move in out of the education levels by testing out and such. To stick them in a school based on there test scores with out any opportunity to better themselves would be a crime and a reason enough to make this whole argument null und void. This is just part of my plan for the new and improved United States. Hell I am almost half inspired to post a thread with everything laid out to see what people think. But for now know that my ideas may not be 100% correct , but they are 100% more correct then yours. Communism will fail, it always has and it always will. The laws and control the government needs to make it work will never be embraced by the people or the rest of the world. If it isn't Stalinism then what is it....you still have to take everything away from the people, and you can't make us love each other enough to make equal pay for unequal work.

Its been stated correctly that this is (and I've participated in) a thread-jack, specially this last little bit, so I'll comment on it and move on, in hopes to discussion about the topic at hand. Regardless...

So basically you want an America that is nothing like America, has arbitrary rules without definition and is highly subjective. So kind of like an idealistic communism? You're crafting an ideal scenario, where the government cannot be corrupted, where people are passive, etc... if we're going that far, why not just talk about a utopian America where none of that is necessary?

[Canada Provinces]

I don't know if this is a very good idea, putting a place of worship for the Muslim community nearby a very sacred ground to some Americans would cause an outrage and it probably wouldn't last long there. Also, isn't their a separation of Church and State? Would this count towards the Mosque to? Should the government really be putting their opinion or standing with this issue out there?

[Enadail]

I don't know if this is a very good idea, putting a place of worship for the Muslim community nearby a very sacred ground to some Americans would cause an outrage and it probably wouldn't last long there. Also, isn't their a separation of Church and State? Would this count towards the Mosque to? Should the government really be putting their opinion or standing with this issue out there?

It probably wont last long there? Why? Because someone might attack the mosque? We should avoid it because someone might commit a hate crime?

And sure there's separation of church and state. Obama isn't building the mosque, he isn't mandating its building. He's endorsing that building it there would not be a bad thing, that it represents the truth of America. Separation of church and state means the government can't endorse or favor a religion... it doesn't mean it can't support the freedoms America was built on.

[American Capitalist]

Ok... reading your post. Is worse in my opinion than watching Palin or Nikki Haley talk on TV. Capitalism is a bad idea that has been implemented correctly with a Democratic system ensuring that big businesses aren't the governing body who would more than likely strip you of all your rights to ensure that you can't do shit against them.

Communism however, is a good idea that hs been incorrectly implemented with a totalitarian system that did not do what the people wanted. The USSR did strip the people of many of their rights and made sure that the people couldn't challenge the government's authority. You need a Democratic political system to ensure that what the people want is done but the Democracy must be controlled and must have a direct voice from the people to prevent mindless, political infighting from political workers (i.e. the US system).

Communism is an ideal that is impossible simply because you're never going to create a classless society. You can't enforce it without having something backing up the world simply doesn't work perfectly.

Capitalism is an imperfect system that can be ripe for abuse and greed. However it can also allow people to go from being poor to living in luxury. Light Consumerism is a good thing it allows for entertainment and technological advancement.

Heck it's why we have the improvements in computers we have now because some one wanted it and some else thought they could make money off it. Let me ask you this who deserves to make more money the scientist who creates a new drug or the factory worker who manufactures that drug for distribution?

[Canada Provinces]

I don't know if this is a very good idea, putting a place of worship for the Muslim community nearby a very sacred ground to some Americans would cause an outrage and it probably wouldn't last long there. Also, isn't their a separation of Church and State? Would this count towards the Mosque to? Should the government really be putting their opinion or standing with this issue out there?

It probably wont last long there? Why? Because someone might attack the mosque? We should avoid it because someone might commit a hate crime?

And sure there's separation of church and state. Obama isn't building the mosque, he isn't mandating its building. He's endorsing that building it there would not be a bad thing, that it represents the truth of America. Separation of church and state means the government can't endorse or favor a religion... it doesn't mean it can't support the freedoms America was built on.

Okay America was built on freedom of Religion, and they have their rights no matter their religion, but still its GROUND ZERO!!!! Not McDonalds on Broadway, or some Toys R Us in the Bronx. This would be a big hit on Obama's part. HE NEEDS to realize that America was attacked by people who believed we are INFIDELS! People think it will tell them, you win. We give up.

[Dass Alte Reich]

Oh I care about the collective, but education is out of context I'm speaking about taking money from those who earn it to fund the existence of those who don't deserve it. Here is how to make a better America.

A single party authoritarian dictation with one leader who appoints ministers, I love that we have the ability to vote, but the party system has divided us into bitter infighting such as the argument being held between us right now, You being a Communist, and me being a Fascist. The single party system also insures productivity, where as the bitter in fighting we see today is brought on by our indecision. No man would be judged by his race, religion or gender, these things do not inhibit your ability to do work(in general). Instead a man must be judged upon his loyalty to the state and his ability to do work for a greater cause. One of the greatest things about America is our right to private property. Any money earned within this new state will be kept by it's owner(the earner) unless it's for tax which would go to the state, but never a tax that would give money directly to someone undeserving (Welfare). The only people who should receive money from the people are Veterans, families of those born with sever mental and/or physical disabilities, people over 75 and Politicians specifically the Kaiser(when I say Kaiser I do not mean a monarch, but an emperor appointed by his predecessor), but not ridiculous amounts like kings have had in the past....something on par with that of our current president.Here is my resolution to your whining about unemployment. My idea of welfare was introduced on a thread about what to do with welfare, but because I don't wish to dig it up, Ill just give you a brief overview. I call it the NWS or New Welfare System, in which welfare is completely abolished, and the NWS would be placed in it's spot. The NWS program would be hundreds of government jobs in road repair, construction, military and other such areas until those employed fined a job in their trade. But where does the money come from? Well after the abolition of our shitty welfare all funds would be diverted to the NWS. AHA! This is redistribution! Yes...yes it is, but now it is justified. No longer is the averages middle class taxpayers money going to idling crackheads, now it's going to government workers. If you want other peoples money, it is no longer free...you must work for it. As for the those who choose not to embrace this new program, they should be left behind by the rest of society. A strong tenet in the new Amerika would be Social Darwinism. You compete or you are left behind. This does not mean we are breading a generation of un-compassionate A-holes....NO AND NO AGAIN! Compassion would be shown through giving to goodwill and donation to charities, not the robbery of the REAL protalitariats to give to the idlers in what you leftists like to call "Social Justice" the biggest injustice in the capitalist system. The embracing of Social Darwinism will ultimately produce a nation of strong Amerikans who work and function based on their own abilities. You don't need a holocaust to sort out those fit to live from those who aren't, it is no humans choice whether someone deserves to live other then each individual on his own basis. Your life is your responsibility not ours, what you do with it is your choice, you choose to be a crack head and go to jail....your choice, you choose to do nothing and receive other people money while bitching about how you are in the lower class....your choice. You choose to do good in school and get a successful job, your choice. "Those who wish to live, let them fight. Those who do not wish to live in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live" - Adolf Hitler a sad fact but a true one, thus why your perfect communist ideas do not and will not work. Trust me, if this were a perfect world I would be all over Communism like a fly on shit..... but it's not, and you must face the fact that most if not all great things we have today have been born out of opportunity...something that communist economics does not permit. Why should Bill Gates make as much as me, I am 17 and I clean dishes for spare cash to take arm candy out every once in a while, he invented the PC and has become one of the richest people in the world....what makes me equal to him, what he has done with his life was his choice and his pursuit, what I do with mine is mine, maybe Ill be richer then him one day, only time will tell. But I would not expect him to have to receive the same amount of money as me because it's not fare that he is more successful then me. If you don't see the logic behind this there is no hope for you and I am sorry for that. But realize that Communism will never work like the Capitalist Free and Authoritarian countries. As for education I believe we should use Germany's Gymnasium system in order to purge the Amerikan school system of those unfit to be in it, and to create spheres of influence within each school. No longer will that badass failure have an effect on the Nerd who wants to get all the ass the Failure gets. Now failures will be with failures, average with average and scientists with scientists. Of course they would all start in the same place, and their test scores will ultimately decide their fate, but they can still move in out of the education levels by testing out and such. To stick them in a school based on there test scores with out any opportunity to better themselves would be a crime and a reason enough to make this whole argument null und void. This is just part of my plan for the new and improved United States. Hell I am almost half inspired to post a thread with everything laid out to see what people think. But for now know that my ideas may not be 100% correct , but they are 100% more correct then yours. Communism will fail, it always has and it always will. The laws and control the government needs to make it work will never be embraced by the people or the rest of the world. If it isn't Stalinism then what is it....you still have to take everything away from the people, and you can't make us love each other enough to make equal pay for unequal work.

Ok... reading your post. Is worse in my opinion than watching Palin or Nikki Haley talk on TV. Capitalism is a bad idea that has been implemented correctly with a Democratic system ensuring that big businesses aren't the governing body who would more than likely strip you of all your rights to ensure that you can't do shit against them.

Communism however, is a good idea that hs been incorrectly implemented with a totalitarian system that did not do what the people wanted. The USSR did strip the people of many of their rights and made sure that the people couldn't challenge the government's authority. You need a Democratic political system to ensure that what the people want is done but the Democracy must be controlled and must have a direct voice from the people to prevent mindless, political infighting from political workers (i.e. the US system).

You are correct to some extent, but you can not hide the crime that stands at the for front of communism, equal pay for unequal work.....it's a crime you can not deny it....Communism is more evil then Fascism will ever be.