"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[North Suran]

yeah we have to destroy the constitution to save america!

The Bush doctrine, the best way to protect freedom is to vacuum seal it into plastic bags and lock it away where the petty peasants can't get their grubby little hands on it.

In the words of the great Republican leader Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, "Liberty is precious - so precious that it must be rationed."

[Faith Hope Charity]

lol, its funny when liberals detract from the argument to go ad hominem... typical faire... i'm not the argument, the mosque is, so lets just keep it that way.

It's funny when righties accuse you of doing the exact same thing as they do.
Alright, let's stick to the subject. Try not to build a straw man by dragging Israel in to this.

Give me one legally valid reason why they should not be allowed to build a Mosque blocks away from ground zero.
Give me one valid reason why all Muslims should be exempt from the law because of the actions of a few.

"Building and property laws give them the freedom to build them there."
you better get familiar with building codes then, cuz that definitely is not part of it... if we had total freedom of building, there would be no zoning codes.

They own the land, thus they're allowed to build there.
This isn't exactly rocket science.

No one's saying everyone has complete freedom to build whenever, wherever.
Nice little attempt there.

And as for titles you assign me? wtg on going ad hominem... like your opinion of me really affects me, i really dont give a rats ass what you think about me.

Excellent.
How about responding to my point instead then?
How is judging the entire Muslim population for the actions of a minority any different from judging the entire Christian population for the actions of a minority?

its not judging the actions of a minority.. its expecting people to be civil and understand that it is a sensitive area for this to be done in, and accept it.. its that simple... im not saying they cant build a mosque, period, im saying, its very insensitive to build it there.

Stop ignoring the questions.

i can ignore whatever i like.. i dont appreciate ad hominem.. and thus im likely to ignore you.

[Tekania]

you need to study your forms of government more then, it sounds like you dont know what republic is.. and what democracy is... republic protects the rights of the minority, a democracy doesnt... it the majority that makes all the rules... and im deadset against that idea.

Funny...

and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

One wonders at this point which time you were lying. When you brought up poll numbers and "elitism" in government as a grounds for opposition of the Mosque, or now when you claim you believe the majority shouldn't make the rules.... Or maybe simply that you vaccilate on it depending on whether the majority agrees with you or not (more likely).

[North Suran]

If the leader wants to remain neutral about a terrorist organization.. that doesnt raise any red flags in your head about ulterior motives he may have? Come on, lets use common sense here... most sane people know that Hamas is terrorist, and wont want to remain neutral on the subject.

What the Hell does Hamas have to do with the Cordoba House?

[Faith Hope Charity]

you need to study your forms of government more then, it sounds like you dont know what republic is.. and what democracy is... republic protects the rights of the minority, a democracy doesnt... it the majority that makes all the rules... and im deadset against that idea.

Funny...

and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

One wonders at this point which time you were lying. When you brought up poll numbers and "elitism" in government as a grounds for opposition of the Mosque, or now when you claim you believe the opposite.... Or maybe simply that you vaccilate on it depending on whether the majority agrees with you or not (more likely).

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

[Ruthless Slaughter]

All in all, nothing wrong has been done. It is legally fine for them to build a community center/mosque on the location. The Republican Party (of which I am a part) has once again been punted from the podium by our more fundamentalist, radical arm with louder voices. I honestly think they would have reacted similarly if it were anywhere in lower Manhattan which is a shame. New York city blocks being what they are, Ground Zero wouldn't even be visible from the proposed location. What these ignorant individuals need to realize is that they are quickly becoming little better than the radical sects of Islam that they generalize as the entirety of the religion. As much as I'd like to put them all on a plane and shoot them down over the Nevada desert, they unfortunately have as much right to protest and expose themselves for the fools they are as the Islamic religious leaders do to build their community center. Welcome to America: we're an incredibly diverse nation and like it or not one group's opinion isn't the only one that matters.

[Juristonia]

i can ignore whatever i like.. i dont appreciate ad hominem.. and thus im likely to ignore you.

You can ignore whatever you like.
You can also call 'ad hominem' everytime you can't answer a simple question.
You can wear your underwear on your head and skip around whilst singing "I'm a little tea-pot", for all I care.

I guess you're okay with showing everyone you have absolutely no valid reasoning behind your opinion.

[Faith Hope Charity]

i can ignore whatever i like.. i dont appreciate ad hominem.. and thus im likely to ignore you.

You can ignore whatever you like.
You can also call 'ad hominem' everytime you can't answer a simple question.
You can wear your underwear on your head and skip around whilst singing "I'm a little tea-pot", for all I care.

I guess you're okay with showing everyone you have absolutely no valid reasoning behind your opinion.

think what you like, draw whatever opinion you like, whether its truthful or not, you are apparently doing it already.

what i say really doesnt matter.

[Juristonia]

What the Hell does Hamas have to do with the Cordoba House?

Nothing.
He likes to build straw men and then claim someone else did it.

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

You do realise that by calling ad hominem against everyone you agree with you pretty much lose whatever credibility you had left, right?
How about arguing the points instead of throwing out terms of which you clearly don't really know the meaning of?

[North Suran]

wow, ad hominem much?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Enadail]

lol, its funny when liberals detract from the argument to go ad hominem... typical faire... i'm not the argument, the mosque is, so lets just keep it that way.

It's funny when righties accuse you of doing the exact same thing as they do.
Alright, let's stick to the subject. Try not to build a straw man by dragging Israel in to this.

Give me one legally valid reason why they should not be allowed to build a Mosque blocks away from ground zero.
Give me one valid reason why all Muslims should be exempt from the law because of the actions of a few.

"Building and property laws give them the freedom to build them there."
you better get familiar with building codes then, cuz that definitely is not part of it... if we had total freedom of building, there would be no zoning codes.

They own the land, thus they're allowed to build there.
This isn't exactly rocket science.

No one's saying everyone has complete freedom to build whenever, wherever.
Nice little attempt there.

And as for titles you assign me? wtg on going ad hominem... like your opinion of me really affects me, i really dont give a rats ass what you think about me.

Excellent.
How about responding to my point instead then?
How is judging the entire Muslim population for the actions of a minority any different from judging the entire Christian population for the actions of a minority?

its not judging the actions of a minority.. its expecting people to be civil and understand that it is a sensitive area for this to be done in, and accept it.. its that simple... im not saying they cant build a mosque, period, im saying, its very insensitive to build it there.

Insensitive how? Should Christians no longer build Churches near graveyards, or start graveyards near churches, because what Westboro Baptist Church is pretty evil/amoral/insensitive at funerals? Can we now judge all Christians because of the WBC's actions? Actions which many many Christians denounce/oppose? I mean, you seem to think that these Muslims are somehow linked to the terrorists involved in 9/11, thus making their actions insensitive. As there's no connection, can we also now make insane connections among other groups?

The only thing insensitive here is people making a connection between this group and the terrorists of 9/11, and by extension limiting their rights/believing they are immoral for their choices.

you are free to judge any group however you feel.. if you wanna draw connections, more power to you. Also, simply because YOU may not think its insensitive, doesnt mean others may. If the leader wants to remain neutral about a terrorist organization.. that doesnt raise any red flags in your head about ulterior motives he may have? Come on, lets use common sense here... most sane people know that Hamas is terrorist, and wont want to remain neutral on the subject. At least to me, this right here is enough to not allow it built. You may have a differing opinion, more power to you.

Well, lets throw your words back at you... you are free to judge any group any way you want... but just because you think its insensitive doesn't mean others will. Just because the leader wants to remain neutral does not mean he has ulterior motives. It means hes choosing not to pick sides. Why is up in the air, and only he can know. How do you know he doesn't have family there and is choosing not to pick sides to keep them safe? Or that he himself has been threatened? You assumed that because he's neutral, he has some evil, ulterior motives? You're starting with the assumption that he's in the wrong, and finding reasons to match... this one is as stretched as they come. How closed minded do you wanna be? Just because someone disagrees with you, you think they deserve to have their rights revoked? I might differ in opinion with you, and I'm starting to think you might an idiot, but that doesn't mean I'd want your rights revoked.

[Juristonia]

think what you like, draw whatever opinion you like, whether its truthful or not, you are apparently doing it already.

what i say really doesnt matter.

I don't really see why you're having such a problem here, to be honest.
After all, all we've been asking is for you to provide valid arguments behind your posts.
That's pretty much what people expect from anyone when they say something around here.
Why would you be on a discussion board when you're completely unwilling (or incapable) of discussing anything?

[Tekania]

you need to study your forms of government more then, it sounds like you dont know what republic is.. and what democracy is... republic protects the rights of the minority, a democracy doesnt... it the majority that makes all the rules... and im deadset against that idea.

Funny...

and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

One wonders at this point which time you were lying. When you brought up poll numbers and "elitism" in government as a grounds for opposition of the Mosque, or now when you claim you believe the opposite.... Or maybe simply that you vaccilate on it depending on whether the majority agrees with you or not (more likely).

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

It's hard to attack your opinions, they move around too fast depending on your personal prejudices against one or another group. It's much easier to attack the fact that they're moving in the first place.

[Enadail]

wow, ad hominem much?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Beat me to it! I'm still waiting for his definition of ad hominem...

[Unchecked Expansion]

you need to study your forms of government more then, it sounds like you dont know what republic is.. and what democracy is... republic protects the rights of the minority, a democracy doesnt... it the majority that makes all the rules... and im deadset against that idea.

Funny...

and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

One wonders at this point which time you were lying. When you brought up poll numbers and "elitism" in government as a grounds for opposition of the Mosque, or now when you claim you believe the opposite.... Or maybe simply that you vaccilate on it depending on whether the majority agrees with you or not (more likely).

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

Those are your exact quotes. What's been twisted?

[North Suran]

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

Those are your exact quotes. What's been twisted?

To be fair, you were presenting them in a way which made it appear as if he was contradicting himself.

Which is to say, you were presenting them.

[Tekania]

you need to study your forms of government more then, it sounds like you dont know what republic is.. and what democracy is... republic protects the rights of the minority, a democracy doesnt... it the majority that makes all the rules... and im deadset against that idea.

Funny...

and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?

One wonders at this point which time you were lying. When you brought up poll numbers and "elitism" in government as a grounds for opposition of the Mosque, or now when you claim you believe the opposite.... Or maybe simply that you vaccilate on it depending on whether the majority agrees with you or not (more likely).

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

Those are your exact quotes. What's been twisted?

Reality has a well known liberal bias.

[Drachmar]

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

Those are your exact quotes. What's been twisted?

To be fair, you were presenting them in a way which made it appear as if he was contradicting himself.

Which is to say, you were presenting them.

Not to say, I didn't see this coming...

I can help you dig this hole. Here, have a shovel.

*hands shovel to FHC*

[Jalkil]

It was a silly thing, ofcourse they should be able to build there! Why not?
To refuse to let them build there would be stupid of Obama for lots of reasons which is why he did it. Would just lower his popularity even more!

[Delator]

Successful troll is successful...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10973459

Obama defends right to build mosque near 9/11 site

US President Barack Obama has staunchly defended controversial plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero in New York.

Opponents have protested against the construction of an Islamic cultural centre and mosque several hundred feet away from the site of the Twin Towers.

Mr Obama acknowledged "sensitivities" surround the 9/11 site, but said Muslims have the same right to practise their religion "as anyone else".

"Our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable," Mr Obama said.

Since a New York developer announced plans to build a 13-storey Islamic community centre and mosque about two blocks from the former World Trade Center site, prominent Republican politicians and a host of conservative pundits have attacked the project.

Some relatives of people killed in the terror attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001 are also opposed to the plan.
'Stab in the heart'

In a speech at a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan, the Muslim holy month, Mr Obama waded into the row, saying:

"We must all recognise and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan, Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground. But let me be clear, as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practise their religion as anyone else in this country.
The proposed mosque site in New York The site of the proposed mosque is about two blocks from the former World Trade Center

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community centre on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are."

He told the group of US Congressmen, government officials and foreign dignitaries that America's tradition of religious tolerance distinguishes it from "our enemies".

"Al-Qaeda's cause is not Islam," he said, "it is a gross distortion of Islam".

Until now Mr Obama had not commented on the mosque row, with the White House saying that the matter was a local issue.

In voicing his support for the right to build the centre, Mr Obama joins New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who had been the only prominent politician to endorse it.

Opponents of the building project have called for investigations into its backers and financing. In New York, opponents sought unsuccessfully to have the building currently at the mosque site granted landmark protection status, in an effort to hinder development.

Former US House of Representatives speaker Newt Gingrich dubbed the plan an "assertion of Islamist triumphalism" and has denounced it in speeches.

Former Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin wrote that "to build a mosque at Ground Zero is a stab in the heart of the families of the innocent victims of those horrific attacks".

Proving at last that he is a Kenyan Muslim, Obama publicly disagreed with Republicans and right wing talking-heads while at dinner with his comrade Muslims.

But seriously, was it wise for Obama to weigh in on this? Personally I think that if the White House had kept its mouth shut for too much longer it would start to get questionable. Clearly this story has worked up national attention. Whether this will help or hurt Obama is obviously hard to say. So naturally NSG already knows.

I think the President was right to address the issue as he did. I strongly agree that we must remain firmly committed to religious freedom in this country.

We've already compromised enough of our ideals in this so called War on Terror...if we compromise on this one, we'll have proven ourselves no better than our enemies.

Besides, if so many people are so pissed off about it, there's nothing stopping them from building one of those gigantic Evangelical megachurches right next door.

[Wamitoria]

It was a silly thing, ofcourse they should be able to build there! Why not?
To refuse to let them build there would be stupid of Obama for lots of reasons which is why he did it. Would just lower his popularity even more!

Ironic isn't it? IF he had come out opposed to the Community Center, Faux News would have run articles accusing him of discriminating against Muslims...

[Tekania]

wow, ad hominem much? this isnt about me.. if you dont like my opinions thats fine... but you dont have to attack me and twist my words... have a good day.

Those are your exact quotes. What's been twisted?

To be fair, you were presenting them in a way which made it appear as if he was contradicting himself.

Which is to say, you were presenting them.

Yes, silly me...

[Vervaria]

The fact that this is a controversial topic is a sad commentary on anti-Muslim bigotry in the US.

[Jalkil]

It was a silly thing, ofcourse they should be able to build there! Why not?
To refuse to let them build there would be stupid of Obama for lots of reasons which is why he did it. Would just lower his popularity even more!

Ironic isn't it? IF he had come out opposed to the Community Center, Faux News would have run articles accusing him of discriminating against Muslims...

Or of poor old Obama being pushed around by republicans against Muslims? Who knows...
Nah, you are propably right. It is almost a shame that he didnt refuse Get him impeached faster.

[The Lone Alliance]

It was a silly thing, ofcourse they should be able to build there! Why not?
To refuse to let them build there would be stupid of Obama for lots of reasons which is why he did it. Would just lower his popularity even more!

Ironic isn't it? IF he had come out opposed to the Community Center, Faux News would have run articles accusing him of discriminating against Muslims...

I could see it now "Constitution Scholar refuses to Defend Constitution, PROOF that the ebil Obama is out to destroy the Constitution"