"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[Militsia]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

[Tellend]

1. Wikipedia is not a source.
2. The 1,000 membership was from 2001, has definitly grown since then.
3. What about the hundreds of other islamic terrorist groups? Al-Qaeda is not the only one.

Your numbers are way off.

1. I disagree about wikipedia, but several thousand is definitely the high end (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/07/sb-al-qaeda-new-members-badly-needed-1151963690 This is the source for Wikipedia. I'm using that.) I'll stick to wikipedia for the rest.
2. Alright, 100,000 members (No way is it, and those other groups combined that big). that leaves 0.00006%. no wait, 1 million. 0.0006% Still way less than the Nazi percentage (0.8%). I'm pretty sure you couldn't fill Philly with Al-Qaeda.

My numbers are all way off, but they are off in favor of the people who think Muslim=Al-Qaeda, but still come out the other way by a large margin. The exact numbers aren't so much the point as the general idea that Al-Qaeda is smaller compared to muslims than Nazis to Christians in the 1940's. If I really cared enough, I would find the absolute exact numbers, and they would still support my point. My math is probably off too, you should check it.

Yeah but I bet there were allot more Christians killing Nazi's in WWII than there is Muslims killing Al Qaeda terrorists. Also Heil Hitler and the calling him de fuhrer(Lord) goes against a basic tenet of Christianity.

There ARE muslims fighting Al-Qaeda (admittedly, I don't feel like checking how many). Violence is also against Islam, so what? Only listen to the parts of religion you feel like listening to, right? (on the part of the Nazis and Al-Qaeda, not you)

EDIT: Sorry, Islamic Hazarastan, I'm a slow typer, so I didn't see your reply.

[Juristonia]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

[Pandarchy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10973459

Obama defends right to build mosque near 9/11 site

US President Barack Obama has staunchly defended controversial plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero in New York.

Opponents have protested against the construction of an Islamic cultural centre and mosque several hundred feet away from the site of the Twin Towers.

Mr Obama acknowledged "sensitivities" surround the 9/11 site, but said Muslims have the same right to practise their religion "as anyone else".

"Our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable," Mr Obama said.

Since a New York developer announced plans to build a 13-storey Islamic community centre and mosque about two blocks from the former World Trade Center site, prominent Republican politicians and a host of conservative pundits have attacked the project.

Some relatives of people killed in the terror attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001 are also opposed to the plan.
'Stab in the heart'

In a speech at a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan, the Muslim holy month, Mr Obama waded into the row, saying:

"We must all recognise and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan, Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground. But let me be clear, as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practise their religion as anyone else in this country.
The proposed mosque site in New York The site of the proposed mosque is about two blocks from the former World Trade Center

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community centre on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are."

He told the group of US Congressmen, government officials and foreign dignitaries that America's tradition of religious tolerance distinguishes it from "our enemies".

"Al-Qaeda's cause is not Islam," he said, "it is a gross distortion of Islam".

Until now Mr Obama had not commented on the mosque row, with the White House saying that the matter was a local issue.

In voicing his support for the right to build the centre, Mr Obama joins New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who had been the only prominent politician to endorse it.

Opponents of the building project have called for investigations into its backers and financing. In New York, opponents sought unsuccessfully to have the building currently at the mosque site granted landmark protection status, in an effort to hinder development.

Former US House of Representatives speaker Newt Gingrich dubbed the plan an "assertion of Islamist triumphalism" and has denounced it in speeches.

Former Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin wrote that "to build a mosque at Ground Zero is a stab in the heart of the families of the innocent victims of those horrific attacks".

Proving at last that he is a Kenyan Muslim, Obama publicly disagreed with Republicans and right wing talking-heads while at dinner with his comrade Muslims.

But seriously, was it wise for Obama to weigh in on this? Personally I think that if the White House had kept its mouth shut for too much longer it would start to get questionable. Clearly this story has worked up national attention. Whether this will help or hurt Obama is obviously hard to say. So naturally NSG already knows.

I read somewhere that the people wanting to build the Mosque don't own the property they want to build it on.

Hey, that would be a neat way to make a lot of money!

1. Buy some property.
2. Pick a controversial group who you approve of.
3. Offer them the property to build a HQ/Mosque/Obscene Statue
4. Leak the proposed development to the press
5. Wait.
6. Sell property at five times its value to consortium determined to prevent said HQ/Mosque/Obscene Statue
7. Make generous settlement with controversial group for not fulfilling contract
8. Repeat.

[Amigard]

Look through history and one can find MANY examples of so called Christians committing barbaric acts (the Inquisition for one) in the name of Christianity. That doesn't make all Christians barbaric or inherently violent and hateful any more than a group of people claiming to fight some holy war in the name of Islam makes all Muslims out to destroy the free world.

[Militsia]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

[Ashmoria]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

i didnt read the book .... his step father wasnt muslim?

[Amigard]

Even if President Obama was a Muslim I didn't realize there was a section in the Constitution that holds the nations highest office of the US in reserve for Christians only.

[Militsia]

Even if President Obama was a Muslim I didn't realize there was a section in the Constitution that holds the nations highest office of the US in reserve for Christians only.

There isn't, but I doubt a devote muslim would get though the primaries and atleast not the general election.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

i didnt read the book .... his step father wasnt muslim?

He was. I don't see the importance of this, though.

[Juristonia]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

Exactly.
Hell, I went to a Christian school and I'm about as much of a blasphemous heathen as you can get.

[Enadail]

Even if President Obama was a Muslim I didn't realize there was a section in the Constitution that holds the nations highest office of the US in reserve for Christians only.

Hell, I'm waiting for the day when we see a non-Christian in office... a final shred of proof that America has gotten over its "only Christians can be good/right/moral/etc" bias.

[Militsia]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

i didnt read the book .... his step father wasnt muslim?

He was. I don't see the importance of this, though.

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

[Juristonia]

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

Yet again assuming that was his childhood faith.
What would've been weird was if he had gone against the constitution and US law.

[Amigard]

Even if President Obama was a Muslim I didn't realize there was a section in the Constitution that holds the nations highest office of the US in reserve for Christians only.

There isn't, but I doubt a devote muslim would get though the primaries and atleast not the general election.

I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying brining up the possibility that President Obama may, at one time, have been Muslim is irrelevant. Didn't articulate it very well I apologize.

[Sondstead]

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary).

From a Chicago Tribune article on Obama's schooling "When he was at a public school for a year, he learned about Islam. Obama's stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim, according to former friends and neighbors. And the school described as an Islamic madrassa in media reports actually was a public school, so progressive that teachers wore miniskirts and all students were encouraged to celebrate Christmas."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 7655.story

Anyway, on the topic at hand, I seem to remember that the President swears at inaguration to "Preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States". The constitution guarantees freedom of religion. Put two and two together, Obama was justified in commenting and right in supporting the Mosque's construction. Simple as that.

[Tekania]

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

For the same reason Palin, Cantor and McCain, have seen need to make a stated opinion about a New York City planning issue (sans bigoted vitriol and false patriotism of course).

[Faith Hope Charity]

1st amendment DOES guarantee freedom of religion, yes, but it DOESNT guarantee WHERE you can build your place of worship.. if it did, you wouldnt have zoning laws saying where churches, etc can and cant be built... the ground zero mosque is nothing more then a taunt to us and a triumph of radical islam over NYC... i thought it would take longer then it did, but often reality is stranger than fiction.

[Militsia]

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

Yet again assuming that was his childhood faith.
What would've been weird was if he had gone against the constitution and US law.

It is my opinion that the federal government should not interfere when the city of New York decides where to build Mosques. It equvalent of having the president give his opinion on a Walmart construction project.

[Ashmoria]

I neighter agree nor disagree, but I can understand why he would want to stand behind the muslim faith, since he was raised to be one.

Prove this... its as big a piece of bull as claiming hes not a natural born citizen...

I am not saying that he is not a Christian, he converted as an adult.

He didn't say that.
He said prove he was raised a Muslim.

You should read Obamas book, where he disclosed everything that could be used against him in the campain.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father- ... 1400082773

The paper back is just 10$ or find it at the library.

I have read it, for one, and you'd have to be new to the English language to think that he says he was raised Muslim.

For some time he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia (where secularism probably isn't in their dictionary). Only that and nothing more.

Even so, who cares?

i didnt read the book .... his step father wasnt muslim?

He was. I don't see the importance of this, though.

it is and it isnt.

his having lived in indonesia among muslims gives him a better impression of what religious tolerance means.

it doesnt make him ex-muslim.

[Wamitoria]

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

Yet again assuming that was his childhood faith.
What would've been weird was if he had gone against the constitution and US law.

It is my opinion that the federal government should not interfere when the city of New York decides where to build Mosques. It equvalent of having the president give his opinion on a Walmart construction project.

I agree. Obama should veto all Walmarts.

Vote YES on Costco.

[Tekania]

1st amendment DOES guarantee freedom of religion, yes, but it DOESNT guarantee WHERE you can build your place of worship.. if it did, you wouldnt have zoning laws saying where churches, etc can and cant be built...

We're past that stage. They've met all the zoning and landmark concerns, and have had approval from the applicable city offices.

the ground zero mosque

It's not "the ground zero moque", it's Park51, a community center and Muslim prayer center over on Park Ave 2 blocks away from "Ground Zero" and in fact not even visible from it.

is nothing more then a taunt to us

Who is the "us"? It certainly isn't Americans, Christians, New Yorkers, 9/11 Survivors nor Victims Family members.... as all of those applicable groups have supporters of this center in them. Not really sure who this "us" could be.

and a triumph of radical islam over NYC...

Those buidling it aren't "Radicals"... And many of them involved are and have been New Yorkers.

i thought it would take longer then it did, but often reality is stranger than fiction.

That is only because reality is this is a country built towards freedom and liberty and that is what it strives towards.

[Enadail]

1st amendment DOES guarantee freedom of religion, yes, but it DOESNT guarantee WHERE you can build your place of worship.. if it did, you wouldnt have zoning laws saying where churches, etc can and cant be built... the ground zero mosque is nothing more then a taunt to us and a triumph of radical islam over NYC... i thought it would take longer then it did, but often reality is stranger than fiction.

So everyone is free to practice their religion... just in approved spaces? Can you remind me where these approved places are? And in case you were unaware, the proposed building fits with all zoning laws... so I'm guessing its ok with you then?

Of course, you might have a point with the second one... this might be a taunt... to all extremists hoping to undermine the US, by showing we still believe in freedom, that we haven't caved to their attempts to bring us to our knees in fear. This is a taunt to all those who oppose freedom.

It is not important, but it would have been weird if he had gone out against the City of New York and his childhood faith. I seriously do not understand why the president would need to have a stated opinion on a basic city planning issue.

Yet again assuming that was his childhood faith.
What would've been weird was if he had gone against the constitution and US law.

It is my opinion that the federal government should not interfere when the city of New York decides where to build Mosques. It equvalent of having the president give his opinion on a Walmart construction project.

You're absolutely right. And Obama isn't interfereing... he's simply stating his support... largely because this is slightly more important then a Walmart, and because it was an issue causing a lot of tension among many Americans, which are his grounds. If there was a Walmart coming up on an old church or burial site, he'd probably weigh in if there was enough national attention to the issue.

[Faith Hope Charity]

1st amendment DOES guarantee freedom of religion, yes, but it DOESNT guarantee WHERE you can build your place of worship.. if it did, you wouldnt have zoning laws saying where churches, etc can and cant be built...

We're past that stage. They've met all the zoning and landmark concerns, and have had approval from the applicable city offices.

the ground zero mosque

It's not "the ground zero moque", it's Park51, a community center and Muslim prayer center over on Park Ave 2 blocks away from "Ground Zero" and in fact not even visible from it.

is nothing more then a taunt to us

Who is the "us"? It certainly isn't Americans, Christians, New Yorkers, 9/11 Survivors nor Victims Family members.... as all of those applicable groups have supporters of this center in them. Not really sure who this "us" could be.

and a triumph of radical islam over NYC...

Those buidling it aren't "Radicals"... And many of them involved are and have been New Yorkers.

i thought it would take longer then it did, but often reality is stranger than fiction.

That is only because reality is this is a country built towards freedom and liberty and that is what it strives towards.

I would say its radical, since the Imam in charge refuses to denounce Hamas.. and the fact that a majority of NYCers are deadset against this means nothing.. its all about the decisions of the few elitist in the government... ya, thats freedom and liberty at work, eh?