"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[Coccygia]

There are a number of Muslims who think that putting a mosque there is wrong, including a Sufi. Just as the Vatican doesn't "get it" about pedophile priests, unfortunately, a lot of Muslims don't "get it" about 9/11. Apparently neither do quite a few non-Muslims, such as Obama - who typically is waffling all over the place on the issue and trying to have it both ways. (At least stick to your guns, willya?) The people behind the mosque, I'm sure, have good intentions, or believe that they do - as did the Catholic Church when it built a convent at Auschwitz where the nuns would pray for the conversion of the Jews, or the Mormons when they started retroactively baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims as part of their "Baptism of the Dead" program. It's not Muslims or Islam I object to. It's religious triumphalism. And this particular example is going to piss a LOT of people off. Starting with me (even though I'm already pretty bored with the issue).

[North Suran]

There are a number of Muslims who think that putting a mosque there is wrong, including a Sufi.

And I could cart out quite a number of Russians who'd claim that life was better under Stalin. What's your point?

Just as the Vatican doesn't "get it" about pedophile priests, unfortunately, a lot of Muslims don't "get it" about 9/11.

The difference being that the "paedophile priest" scandal was institutionalised corruption that reflected on the executive branch of the Roman Catholic Church as a whole, whereas 9/11 was committed by a handful of random extremists. Oh, and that the Muslims involved had nothing to do with 9/11.

-snip unrelated-

So yeah.

It's not Muslims or Islam I object to. It's religious triumphalism. And this particular example is going to piss a LOT of people off.

How is this "religious triumphalism"? Should they hold their community centre in a cardboard box?

[Unchecked Expansion]

There are a number of Muslims who think that putting a mosque there is wrong, including a Sufi. Just as the Vatican doesn't "get it" about pedophile priests, unfortunately, a lot of Muslims don't "get it" about 9/11. Apparently neither do quite a few non-Muslims, such as Obama - who typically is waffling all over the place on the issue and trying to have it both ways. (At least stick to your guns, willya?) The people behind the mosque, I'm sure, have good intentions, or believe that they do - as did the Catholic Church when it built a convent at Auschwitz where the nuns would pray for the conversion of the Jews, or the Mormons when they started retroactively baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims as part of their "Baptism of the Dead" program. It's not Muslims or Islam I object to. It's religious triumphalism. And this particular example is going to piss a LOT of people off. Starting with me (even though I'm already pretty bored with the issue).

These are Muslims who have already been praying there, live or work in the area and were quite probably familiar with people who worked in the Trade Centre. This isn't some outsiders planting a flag like it's Iwo Jima, it's local New Yorkers building a community centre for people of their faith and of the local community

[Helertia]

There are a number of Muslims who think that putting a mosque there is wrong, including a Sufi. Just as the Vatican doesn't "get it" about pedophile priests, unfortunately, a lot of Muslims don't "get it" about 9/11. Apparently neither do quite a few non-Muslims, such as Obama - who typically is waffling all over the place on the issue and trying to have it both ways. (At least stick to your guns, willya?) The people behind the mosque, I'm sure, have good intentions, or believe that they do - as did the Catholic Church when it built a convent at Auschwitz where the nuns would pray for the conversion of the Jews, or the Mormons when they started retroactively baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims as part of their "Baptism of the Dead" program. It's not Muslims or Islam I object to. It's religious triumphalism. And this particular example is going to piss a LOT of people off. Starting with me (even though I'm already pretty bored with the issue).

Not really sure how this is religious triumphalism, seeing as A: It isn't a Mosque and B: It was planned before 9/11

[Ovelebertane]

So, is there anyone on right now who OPPOSES it? I'm looking for a debate, but it seems that most everybody agrees this is a victory for the religious freedom.

I for one see it as a victory. A victory for muslim radicals.

[Helertia]

So, is there anyone on right now who OPPOSES it? I'm looking for a debate, but it seems that most everybody agrees this is a victory for the religious freedom.

I for one see it as a victory. A victory for muslim radicals.

Which it isn't being built by. NEXT.

[Unchecked Expansion]

So, is there anyone on right now who OPPOSES it? I'm looking for a debate, but it seems that most everybody agrees this is a victory for the religious freedom.

I for one see it as a victory. A victory for muslim radicals.

Just like the death of George Tiller was a victory for moderate Christians

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

As much as we might find this distasteful, the US Constitution gives them every right to build the mosque there.

[Tekania]

There are a number of Muslims who think that putting a mosque there is wrong, including a Sufi. Just as the Vatican doesn't "get it" about pedophile priests, unfortunately, a lot of Muslims don't "get it" about 9/11. Apparently neither do quite a few non-Muslims, such as Obama - who typically is waffling all over the place on the issue and trying to have it both ways. (At least stick to your guns, willya?) The people behind the mosque, I'm sure, have good intentions, or believe that they do - as did the Catholic Church when it built a convent at Auschwitz where the nuns would pray for the conversion of the Jews, or the Mormons when they started retroactively baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims as part of their "Baptism of the Dead" program. It's not Muslims or Islam I object to. It's religious triumphalism. And this particular example is going to piss a LOT of people off. Starting with me (even though I'm already pretty bored with the issue).

It's not a "Mosque" it's a Community Center, to put an even worse hitch in it for you, the present building is already being used for Muslim prayer services. And there are ACTUAL Mosques in NYC close to Ground Zero , ones which predate the 9/11 attacks. Masjid Manhattan for example is a mere 4 blocks north, and has been there since 1970. (The horror... we need to run them out!).

A General Community Center which additionally houses a Muslim prayer facility is not the same thing as building a nunnery next door to Auschwitz so nuns can pray for Jewish conversion... no matter how much acid you drop.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

[Dyakovo]

Didn't I already ask you for a load of sources on this kind of thing? I don't remember you getting back to me on that....

Imam is a radical.

He's friends with this guy.

And the Audacity of Hope sets sail in September.

Your "evidence" that he is a radical seems to rest on the fact that he had an office next to an organisation that the FBI believes is associated with Hamas.

The person sitting beside me is Cree. Is that evidence that I am a Canadian aboriginal?

Yes
It's just really, really crappy evidence...

[Dyakovo]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

The above post is from someone who has never actually been to New York city.

amidoinitrite?

I've been to NYC numerous times. It's full of hideous rectangular slabs of concrete.

[Dyakovo]

The Marist Poll showing what the residents of Manhattan, who really are the only ones involved, think of the mosque:

Manhattan: favors Park51: 53%, Opposes: 31% Undecided: 16% MoE +/-4%

Well, let's see...
The Margin of Error is 4%, so that makes the support %age: 49%, and obviously that 4% instead belongs with the oppose, so that makes the opposed %age 35%. Also, everyone knows the undecideds are actually opposed and just didn't want to say so...

Manhattan: favors Park51: 49%, Opposes: 51% Undecided: 0% MoE +/-0%[/quote]

[Unchecked Expansion]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

The above post is from someone who has never actually been to New York city.

amidoinitrite?

I've been to NYC numerous times. It's full of hideous rectangular slabs of concrete.

I've yet to see a modern city that isn't to some degree

[Dyakovo]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

The above post is from someone who has never actually been to New York city.

amidoinitrite?

I've been to NYC numerous times. It's full of hideous rectangular slabs of concrete.

I've yet to see a modern city that isn't to some degree

True.

[Whole Conviction]

A fact check article from AP: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100818/ap_ ... fact_check

No one has established a link between the cleric and radicals. New York Police Department spokesman Paul Browne said: "We've identified no law enforcement issues related to the proposed mosque."

Ros-Lehtinen and King were referring to the State Department's plan, predating the mosque debate, to send Rauf on another religious outreach trip to the Middle East as part of his "long-term relationship" with U.S. officials in the Bush and Obama administrations. The State Department said Wednesday it will pay him $3,000 for a trip costing the government $16,000.

Rauf counts former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright from the Clinton administration as a friend and appeared at events overseas or meetings in Washington with former President George W. Bush's secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, and Bush adviser Karen Hughes.

He has denounced the terrorist attacks and suicide bombing as anti-Islamic and has criticized Muslim nationalism. But he's made provocative statements about America, too, calling it an "accessory" to the 9/11 attacks and attributing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children to the U.S.-led sanctions in the years before the invasion.

Those 'provocative' statements, and everything else he's ever said, have been echoed from inside the US by people on the left and the right (including Glenn Beck and, I believe, Ron Paul). They just stick to him more because he's a Muslim, I guess. Well, part of his job is to help create interfaith understanding. You don't do that by being a loyal agent of one side. You have to see both sides, and that necessarily involves seeing flaws and benefits of both.

[North Calaveras]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

Strippers and prostitutes aren't known for holy wars and blowing themselves up.

[Exilia and Colonies]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

Strippers and prostitutes aren't known for holy wars and blowing themselves up.

Yet... *looks shifty*

[North Calaveras]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

Strippers and prostitutes aren't known for holy wars and blowing themselves up.

Yet... *looks shifty*

>.>

[Tekania]

Those 'provocative' statements, and everything else he's ever said, have been echoed from inside the US by people on the left and the right (including Glenn Beck and, I believe, Ron Paul). They just stick to him more because he's a Muslim, I guess. Well, part of his job is to help create interfaith understanding. You don't do that by being a loyal agent of one side. You have to see both sides, and that necessarily involves seeing flaws and benefits of both.

I'm a US Veteran and I've been making "provocative" statements about out US foreign policy even as far back as 1995 during my active duty time. And share with both Rauf and Beck (at least Beck from April) that our own policies have made us an accessory to the 9/11 attacks. Some on the right may not like to hear it; but it's just speaking truly about it. We spent alot of money and time empowering the people who attacked us, especially under the guise of opposing communism in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

[Exilia and Colonies]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

Strippers and prostitutes aren't known for holy wars and blowing themselves up.

Yet... *looks shifty*

>.>

I'll have you know there is nothing shifty or suspicious about the Church of Explosive Boobology.

[Bluth Corporation]

Question: How many of the people who supported the efforts to legally block this Muslim group from exercising its property rights by using its private property for peaceful purposes, also (quite rightly) criticized the recent Kelo v. New London decision precisely because it violated individual's private property rights?

[Tekania]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

Strippers and prostitutes aren't known for holy wars and blowing themselves up.

Neither, generally, are Manhattan native Muslims, nor the members of and advisers for the Cordoba Initiative.

[North Calaveras]

Interesting. Mosque or community center. The name does not matter. It is how it used that matters. If it is intended as a holy site, the government cannot ban it.
I find it interesting that the same people who are whining about the building of a Muslim prayer building have no problems strip clubs right next to ground zero and teen girls going there to prostitute themselves. Nor do they seem to have any problems with people being mugged there.

Strippers and prostitutes aren't known for holy wars and blowing themselves up.

Neither, generally, are Manhattan native Muslims, nor the members of and advisers for the Cordoba Initiative.

All im saying is that Islam has the nasty habit of killing lots of people and causing problems over "misinterpretations"

[Tungookska]

All im saying is that Islam has the nasty habit of killing lots of people and causing problems over "misinterpretations"

just like christians and jews?