"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[Tekania]

Which is basically an admission that you pulled said claims straight out of your rectum.

Well, he didn't pull them out of his own rectum, there are alot of conservative bloggers fecal matter all over those claims as well as some of Beck's dingleberries.

[Sailsia]

So, is there anyone on right now who OPPOSES it? I'm looking for a debate, but it seems that most everybody agrees this is a victory for the religious freedom.

[Enadail]

So, is there anyone on right now who OPPOSES it? I'm looking for a debate, but it seems that most everybody agrees this is a victory for the religious freedom.

Most of the conservatives here haven't opposed it but think it shouldn't be built there.

[Tekania]

So, is there anyone on right now who OPPOSES it? I'm looking for a debate, but it seems that most everybody agrees this is a victory for the religious freedom.

Let me be clear, I'm not opposed to what isn't going to be built here.

[Hegstoria]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

The above post is from someone who has never actually been to New York city.

amidoinitrite?

[Tekania]

Let's simply fall back to your initial claim to shoot each one down in turn and provide the actual truth behind your claims:

1.

Some people might have a problem not with a mosque itself, but this particular mosque, which is led by a Imam that supports Hamas,

Support for Hamas comes by the vile concept that ASMA's offices, a foundation run by Mr. Rauf and his wife is next door (actually two doors down) from the New York office for CAIR. This vile contemptuous office building is also occupied by such other sinister Hamas supporters as the New York City Dept. of Parks, The New York City Council of Churches, The Rockefeller Family Fund, The Global Ministries of the United Methodist Church, The Regional Emergency Medical Services Council, and the General Synod of the Reformed Church of America.

2.

believes that the Jews were responsible for 9/11

This comed actually not from Rauf, but a former employee of ICC (to which Rauf inherited permanent trusteeship after his father's death in 2004... Rauf was not a trustee when of ICC when Muhammed Gemeaha worked there, and Mr.Gemeaha resigned from the ICC and left the country before making those remarks on a radio station in the Mid-East.

3.

(and he is either a friend of Bill Ayers or Rashid Khalidi... who are both friends; I have forgotten which...

You're not even sure who he's a friend with, yet this proof? And even so, they are both well known professors, and have acquaintances with a lot of people.

4.

they are sending another flotilla to Gaza this September, with Hamas members, known as the "Audacity of Hope"...).

A Flotilla funded and operated by an entire slew of peace organizations, many made up of US Veteran soldiers and family members, as well as well known peace activists.

[Gauthier]

Let's simply fall back to your initial claim to shoot each one down in turn and provide the actual truth behind your claims:

1.

Some people might have a problem not with a mosque itself, but this particular mosque, which is led by a Imam that supports Hamas,

Support for Hamas comes by the vile concept that ASMA's offices, a foundation run by Mr. Rauf and his wife is next door (actually two doors down) from the New York office for CAIR. This vile contemptuous office building is also occupied by such other sinister Hamas supporters as the New York City Dept. of Parks, The New York City Council of Churches, The Rockefeller Family Fund, The Global Ministries of the United Methodist Church, The Regional Emergency Medical Services Council, and the General Synod of the Reformed Church of America.

2.

believes that the Jews were responsible for 9/11

This comed actually not from Rauf, but a former employee of ICC (to which Rauf inherited permanent trusteeship after his father's death in 2004... Rauf was not a trustee when of ICC when Muhammed Gemeaha worked there, and Mr.Gemeaha resigned from the ICC and left the country before making those remarks on a radio station in the Mid-East.

3.

(and he is either a friend of Bill Ayers or Rashid Khalidi... who are both friends; I have forgotten which...

You're not even sure who he's a friend with, yet this proof? And even so, they are both well known professors, and have acquaintances with a lot of people.

4.

they are sending another flotilla to Gaza this September, with Hamas members, known as the "Audacity of Hope"...).

A Flotilla funded and operated by an entire slew of peace organizations, many made up of US Veteran soldiers and family members, as well as well known peace activists.

And I suppose it can be considered a NationStates institution, the Kimchi Legacy that continues to this day.

[The Black Forrest]

I look at this argument and listen about it on the news and other people and have decided we have the attention span of gnats.

Instead of focusing the government for no jobs, the endless wars, not punishing BP, general corruption, etc.

We are distracted over things like this......

[Gauthier]

I look at this argument and listen about it on the news and other people and have decided we have the attention span of gnats.

Instead of focusing the government for no jobs, the endless wars, not punishing BP, general corruption, etc.

We are distracted over things like this......

Because it's much more fun and community-inspiring to scream about how the Evil Muslims are going to kill us all and convert us to Islam.

[Katganistan]

This is a slap to the faces of those who went through that bombing and lost their loved ones.

There should be a line drawn with the religious freedoms part of this country.

I went through the attack. I had friends who were there, up close and personal, and survived. It's not a slap in the face.

Next?

[Katganistan]

I know I will get shit for it -- but as much as I feel the symbolism of the Twin Towers was important -- they were pretty, shall we say, utilitarian upended shoe-boxy?

You probably will, but I remember watching a documentary about the towers before they were destroyed that pretty much said the same thing and how, when they were build, New Yorkers bitched about just how goddamn ugly they were and lacked style to go in their city.

Much like with musicians, despite any valid criticisms in "life," in "death" they are beyond reproach. If you think otherwise, you're an ebil muslim terrorist freedom hater.

... Did Bin Laden do New Yorkers a favor?

Absolutely not. But for people going on about how the new building won't fit in and how ugly it is.... there is PLENTY of glass and steel construction all over that neighborhood and the island, and the towers were not especially pretty.

[The Black Forrest]

I look at this argument and listen about it on the news and other people and have decided we have the attention span of gnats.

Instead of focusing the government for no jobs, the endless wars, not punishing BP, general corruption, etc.

We are distracted over things like this......

Because it's much more fun and community-inspiring to scream about how the Evil Muslims are going to kill us all and convert us to Islam.

Kill us all and convert us to Islam ?!?!?!?

They are creating a zombie army!

Islam is a sign of the end of days!

[Tekania]

Kill us all and convert us to Islam

Yes... in that order.

[Free Soviets]

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

i think the massive pile of layers of bureaucracy to navigate to get building plans approved will handle any such concerns more than adequately. if anything, i'd worry that they will tend to make it too boring.

[Otagia]

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

i think the massive pile of layers of bureaucracy to navigate to get building plans approved will handle any such concerns more than adequately. if anything, i'd worry that they will tend to make it too boring.

Interesting point there. Anyone know if Lower Manhattan has an architectural review board?

[Farnhamia]

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

i think the massive pile of layers of bureaucracy to navigate to get building plans approved will handle any such concerns more than adequately. if anything, i'd worry that they will tend to make it too boring.

Interesting point there. Anyone know if Lower Manhattan has an architectural review board?

I don't think so, or they'd have been mentioned in the articles on the subject, don't you think. Individual buildings in NYC are designated landmarks, but not entire areas. At least, I don't think so.

[Free Soviets]

they'd have been mentioned in the articles on the subject, don't you think

honestly, given the sort of 'reporting' this issue has received, no.

[New Franksburg]

If this were a christian church there would be zilho protests but because its muslims RAAARRG SCARY BROWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kazomal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0

I was surprised to see such rational thinking and honesty from the American media. What do you think?

[Tekania]

If this were a christian church there would be zilho protests but because its muslims RAAARRG SCARY BROWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd protest, I'd also be able to tie them to Hamas, if it were a United Methodist or Reformed Church of America church being built since they would be renting office space in the same building with an organization that may have ties with Hamas. And if were Mormon I would be putting out how its being backed by a radical Mormonist who thinks the US is to blame for 9/11.

[NFA Rulz]

He's a tool.

[Jervak]

He's a tool.

^This^

[Tekania]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0

I was surprised to see such rational thinking and honesty from the American media. What do you think?

Now that was a message.... and the ending struck me as precisely what my point has been.

"When they come for someones bible, someones torah (snip, etc)... You and I SPEAK UP!". This has been the pricise reason why I stand in support of Park51.

[Katganistan]

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

i think the massive pile of layers of bureaucracy to navigate to get building plans approved will handle any such concerns more than adequately. if anything, i'd worry that they will tend to make it too boring.

Interesting point there. Anyone know if Lower Manhattan has an architectural review board?

These are the entities in NYC government which support it:
Community Board 1
The Landmark Preservation Commission
Mayor's Office
Manhattan Borough President's Office.

It's not as if Muslims or Mosques are new to the area -- in fact, the World Trade Center was built on the same site as a neighborhood called "Little Syria".
The Marist Poll showing what the residents of Manhattan, who really are the only ones involved, think of the mosque:

Manhattan: favors Park51: 53%, Opposes: 31% Undecided: 16% MoE +/-4%

[Lord Tothe]

I look at this argument and listen about it on the news and other people and have decided we have the attention span of gnats.

Instead of focusing the government for no jobs, the endless wars, not punishing BP, general corruption, etc.

We are distracted over things like this......

Because it's much more fun and community-inspiring to scream about how the Evil Muslims are going to kill us all and convert us to Islam.

Kill us all and convert us to Islam ?!?!?!?

They are creating a zombie army!

Islam is a sign of the end of days!

Ordinary Muslims: No threat, will not shoot.
Rotting Zombie Muslims: Shoot on sight!
Rotting Zombie Muslim Jihadist Suicide Bombers: We're hosed. Kiss your ass goodbye.

*edit* On a more serious note, from Michael S. Rozeff via Lewrockwell.com:

The Ground Zero criticism brings into focus the basic thought of those against the real estate development: Property rights go out the window. Sarah Palin wants to persecute the real estate developers whose land she does not own. Peter King, John McCain, John Boehner, and Carly Fiorina have all lined up on the side of persecution. Palin places persecution ABOVE rights: “We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?” Being against rights is being for persecution, Sarah.

Those who view this land as “hallowed ground,” like Obama, want a permanent cemetery there, but they don’t own it either. Anyway, the 9/11 sacred ground psychology should be rejected. It’s time to move on. Get over it. Let the trauma subside. Let the wounds heal. Let those who own the land rebuild. Let them erect whatever monument or plaque they see as fitting. Your death on a particular spot doesn’t give your heirs or anyone else ownership rights over that spot. Viewing 9/11 as a social and/or political event affecting the American people also does not confer a property right to Ground Zero on them as a collective or through their political institutions. Neither does it confer property rights upon critics, over parcels of land located away from Ground Zero, based upon the religious affiliations of the owners and developers of such parcels.

*edit again* "As Drew Hjelms points out, the US has been opening up ground 0′s next to mosques all over the world, for a very long time." ~ Lew Rockwell