"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[Inertina]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

[Dinaverg]

Who cares about the outsides of buildings? I wanna see the planned interiors.

[Farnhamia]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

Generalize much, O inert one? (Of course, what better place than the General forum?)

[North Calaveras]

Legally they should be allowed to do this but at the same time they HAVE to consider people's feelings towards this, we also have not heard where the money is coming from. Mosque and community center don't mix either, i really want to see how that works out for them.

[Ifreann]

....we also have not heard where the money is coming from.

Second time I've heard this today. I'm still wondering, how is it any of your business?

[Inertina]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

Generalize much, O inert one? (Of course, what better place than the General forum?)

Very much so, but then I live in the city and am unfortunately familiar with it's love of cement.

[Farnhamia]

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!

This above quote is the perfect description of New York City.

Generalize much, O inert one? (Of course, what better place than the General forum?)

Very much so, but then I live in the city and am unfortunately familiar with it's love of cement.

As have I, also, lived there and while there is certainly some execrable architecture, there's also some that is quite marvelous.

[Enadail]

Legally they should be allowed to do this but at the same time they HAVE SHOULD to consider people's feelings towards this,

Fixed that as they don't HAVE to do anything, but polite decorum asks that they considers others' feelings.

we also have not heard where the money is coming from.

Where the money comes from is irrelevant, unless there's some evidence suggesting its coming from a nefarious source. It matters no more then it matters where money for any religious building, nay, any building at all comes from. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Mosque and community center don't mix either, i really want to see how that works out for them.

Why is that? Are religious centers not congrative in nature, where community gathers to discuss both religious and personal topics? And if anyone can enter and partake in the services provided without needing to pray (like the YMCA or JCC), how would this not be a community center? Why can a mosque and community center not mix?

[Tungookska]

is that a giant canvas shack in the middle of nyc

[Sdaeriji]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

It's also hideous, you forgot to mention that.

See I feel this is a much more legitimate argument against the building than the whole Muslim angle. It really will be an eyesore, totally out of place with the buildings around it. It really is arrogant of the architects to not even try to integrate the building into the neighborhood.

[Liuzzo]

actual opposition grounded in anything other than universal anti-clericalism is bullshit

What if you oppose it because you think there are much better buildings could be built in that area, despite not being anticlerical?
What if you oppose it because you think that it actually *shock horror* does offend people and does harm relations between the west and Islam, whether you like the fact that people are offended or not (as if 90% of the time when people are offended by anything, it's not grounded in non-rational emotional or symbolic things)?

I have a feeling that if this was about Americans insisting on building a Church in the middle of Baghdad, near a site where a huge amount of Muslims were killed by Americans, despite large opposition in the area, everyone would think the Americans are total wankers - whilst at the same time acknowledging that the opposition from Muslims is not necessarily logical or rational (i.e. these particular American Christians had nothing to do with the deaths, they have a right to property there). It's possible to hold both positions at the same time you know.

I actually think you are probably right about that, if it was being built in Baghdad of course. The fact is though, the United States prides itself on being above that sort of thing.

If you moved this situation to Iraq it's a whole new kettle of fish, cause you're dealing with a different group of people.

Maybe so, but I am *GASP* gonna agree with Obama here.

They have the right to build it there, but it isn't necessarily the best or most wise location.

Tis why you and I almost always get along.

[Tekania]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

It's also hideous, you forgot to mention that.

See I feel this is a much more legitimate argument against the building than the whole Muslim angle. It really will be an eyesore, totally out of place with the buildings around it. It really is arrogant of the architects to not even try to integrate the building into the neighborhood.

It's not arrogant, but practical. Unlike the lovely looking money-pit masonry buildings surrounding it, it's primarily built for energy savings and efficiency.

[North Calaveras]

Legally they should be allowed to do this but at the same time they HAVE SHOULD to consider people's feelings towards this,

Fixed that as they don't HAVE to do anything, but polite decorum asks that they considers others' feelings.

we also have not heard where the money is coming from.

Where the money comes from is irrelevant, unless there's some evidence suggesting its coming from a nefarious source. It matters no more then it matters where money for any religious building, nay, any building at all comes from. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Mosque and community center don't mix either, i really want to see how that works out for them.

Why is that? Are religious centers not congrative in nature, where community gathers to discuss both religious and personal topics? And if anyone can enter and partake in the services provided without needing to pray (like the YMCA or JCC), how would this not be a community center? Why can a mosque and community center not mix?

Yes it is important where the money comes from you don't just walk up with the dough and expect it to be done its not that simple and we should know where the money is coming from in case it is in fact from a nefarious source.

[Tekania]

Yes it is important where the money comes from you don't just walk up with the dough and expect it to be done its not that simple and we should know where the money is coming from in case it is in fact from a nefarious source.

It's not important, because it's not something Americans are prepared to do in general. Property Investment is handled in the US typically through a Title Holding Trust because Americans in general prefer to have property investments remain confidential. And it's unconstitutional to hold Soho, ASMA, and Cordoba to a different standard simply because they have Muslim members. Unless the right-wing is willing to remove the confidentiality inherently built in property-investment (which they are not), there is no way to expect Soho to violate the confidentiality of its investors.

[Enadail]

Legally they should be allowed to do this but at the same time they HAVE SHOULD to consider people's feelings towards this,

Fixed that as they don't HAVE to do anything, but polite decorum asks that they considers others' feelings.

we also have not heard where the money is coming from.

Where the money comes from is irrelevant, unless there's some evidence suggesting its coming from a nefarious source. It matters no more then it matters where money for any religious building, nay, any building at all comes from. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Mosque and community center don't mix either, i really want to see how that works out for them.

Why is that? Are religious centers not congrative in nature, where community gathers to discuss both religious and personal topics? And if anyone can enter and partake in the services provided without needing to pray (like the YMCA or JCC), how would this not be a community center? Why can a mosque and community center not mix?

Yes it is important where the money comes from you don't just walk up with the dough and expect it to be done its not that simple and we should know where the money is coming from in case it is in fact from a nefarious source.

Really? How often does anyone check where the money for any building is coming from? I suppose you also call for the fiscal checks for all churches and synagogues that go up?

All entities within the US have the right privacy, and that includes fiscal privacy. Unless there is evidence that the entity is linked to a nefarious source, you can't just go checking them. It is, and always should be, innocent until proven guilty.

[Whole Conviction]

Yes it is important where the money comes from you don't just walk up with the dough and expect it to be done its not that simple and we should know where the money is coming from in case it is in fact from a nefarious source.

Are YMCAs checked for funding sources every time they set up new sites? Are churches? Why this site in particular?

Now, I might agree with you if the people founding it had ties to questionable organisations. They don't. A lot of hay was made out of certain statements by the founder, but whenever I hear those statements quoted, they're actually incorrectly quoted. On this thread, he's been accused of saying that the US 'deserved' to be attacked on 9/11. Not true.

Do you have any reason -- any at all -- to suggest that the money behind the mosque might be dirty, or are you pre-judging it based on the religious affiliation?

[Caninope]

Tis why you and I almost always get along.

Because I'm like a Newt Gingrich in a white Obama smooth-talking package?

Cool.

[Katganistan]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

It's also hideous, you forgot to mention that.

Yes, it'll fit in with modern Manhattan architecture well.

It would, if it were built among it. Seeing as it's built in a bunch of masonary buildings...



Architects are such idiots sometimes - This is a perfect example of a building with no urban manners. Gaudi was weird and unusual, but his buildings fit in with the rest of Barcelona. This building is ugly glass and steel, built among fine masonary.

You mean likeSagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

[Dyakovo]

But apparently I'm a bigot who thinks all Arabs are Iraqis and that all Muslims are terrorists, and I seek destroy the foundations of America and am actually worse than the 9/11 terrorists.

Still don't know the difference between a question and a statement?

[Geniasis]

You mean likeSagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

Totally different. That's Jesus.

[The Rich Port]

You mean likeSagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

Totally different. That's Jesus.

You have to admit: it's pretty fucking badass.

[Dyakovo]

You mean likeSagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

Totally different. That's Jesus.

You have to admit: it's pretty fucking badass ostentatious.

fixed

[North Suran]

Architects are such idiots sometimes - This is a perfect example of a building with no urban manners. Gaudi was weird and unusual, but his buildings fit in with the rest of Barcelona. This building is ugly glass and steel, built among fine masonary.

You mean like Sagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

Or any Gaudi building, for that matter.

[Katganistan]

You mean likeSagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

Totally different. That's Jesus.

You have to admit: it's pretty fucking badass ostentatious.

fixed

Fugly is how I'd put it....

It looks like something termites spat out.

[North Suran]

You mean likeSagrada Familia Cathedral fits into Barcelona?

Totally different. That's Jesus.

You have to admit: it's pretty fucking badass.

It's got nothing on the Blue Mosque in Istanbul.