"Ground Zero" mosque approved, Obama supports

[Farnhamia]

Maybe so, but I am *GASP* gonna agree with Obama here.

They have the right to build it there, but it isn't necessarily the best or most wise location.

The land they actually own isn't a good location? Why would it be better if they built on someone else's land?

Perhaps a nice closet somewhere?

What, isn't that where you're supposed to stuff gays?

Gays, Muslims, liberals, folks with physical disabilities ... anyone you'd rather not look at and be reminded that people are different.

[Enadail]

Maybe so, but I am *GASP* gonna agree with Obama here.

They have the right to build it there, but it isn't necessarily the best or most wise location.

The land they actually own isn't a good location? Why would it be better if they built on someone else's land?

Point took.

Although they could buy somewhere else. It isn't the most wise place, but like Maurepas said, it is a good place for the melting pot to start up again.

Its not like land in NYC is easy to come by, and regardless, this might be the best place for them... other locations might not be as accessible or get as many people to come.

[Hyde2]

Faisal Abdul Rauf is not the entirety of the Cordoba Initiative... While Rauf may be originally from Kuwait, John S. Bennett, Courtney Erwin and Josh Martin are all native born Americans.. and that's merely just dragging out the upper executive staff of the Cordoba Initiative... so yes, my comparison does in fact stand. Now go back to your cave, troll.

I'm the troll? I can't believe you.

You've already far demonstrated that you have no intention of having an honest partial debate. If you were, then you wouldn't be saying "IF YOU OPPOSE THE MOSQUES, YOU'RE WORSE THAN THE 9/11 TURRERESSTTS" and at the same time "pfffhhssss, that 9/11, it was only casual, minor property damage". No rational person would say that, unless it was used to further their agenda. And what better way to cement your position than to accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you as being worse than the 9/11 terrorists, it's like "why do you hate freedom?" or "you're letting the terrorists win", only worse.

Nevertheless, I deliberately made them American, because the war was done in the name of American/western interests, much like how the 9/11 terrorist attack was done in the name of Islam.

[Tekania]

Faisal Abdul Rauf is not the entirety of the Cordoba Initiative... While Rauf may be originally from Kuwait, John S. Bennett, Courtney Erwin and Josh Martin are all native born Americans.. and that's merely just dragging out the upper executive staff of the Cordoba Initiative... so yes, my comparison does in fact stand. Now go back to your cave, troll.

I'm the troll? I can't believe you.

You've already far demonstrated that you have no intention of having an honest partial debate. If you were, then you wouldn't be saying "IF YOU OPPOSE THE MOSQUES, YOU'RE WORSE THAN THE 9/11 TURRERESSTTS" and at the same time "pfffhhssss, that 9/11, it was only casual, minor property damage". No rational person would say that, unless it was used to further their agenda. And what better way to cement your position than to accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you as being worse than the 9/11 terrorists, it's like "why do you hate freedom?" or "you're letting the terrorists win", only worse.

Nevertheless, I deliberately made them American, because the war was done in the name of American/western interests, much like how the 9/11 terrorist attack was done in the name of Islam.

Yet more proof that your claim of opposition wasn't clerically/religiously motivated was in fact a fucking lie.

You are worse that the 9/11 terrorists... 9/11 Terrorists only had the power to kill some people, and inflict property damage... You seek a path to the absolute destruction of America's ideological foundations, and do so under the disguise of protecting it... I'd much rather be against a terrorist than you... The terrorist can merely kill some of us, you can destroy everything our nation stands for. Yes, you are far more dangerous than a terrorist. This isn't trolling, this is fact. Why you seek to destroy America, I'm not sure. That's something you'll have to answer for yourself. I'm not the one screaming like a bitch like it's the end of the world that an interfaith community wants to build a community center, merely because they will also have muslim prayer services there.

That you "deliberately made them American" for the issue proves that your intent is to paint Cordoba with a false image of what the organization actually is (it's actually an interfaith community with Muslims, Christians and Jews on its executive board, and has advisoers as equally spread through those as well), and that even after shown the error you continue to assert it proves this was not an error of not being properly informed, but rather purposeful intent on your part to provide disinformation to continue to assert your bigotry into the public debate. You assert your points and paint Cordoba in such a light, and pretend this Community center is like building the Dome of the Rock in the middle of NYC because the truth that there are Muslim Americans, that there are Moderate Muslims, and that there were Muslims who were victims and suffered equally as non Muslims in the attacks on 9/11 are all extremely inconvientient to your vile bigotry which wants to pretend like this is a fucking invasion of America.

Park51 is not a Mosque being Constructed on Ground Zero by a group of radical ISlamic extremists.... Park51 is an interfaith community center being built by an Interfaith organization 2 blocks from ground zero. Attempts to paint the issue any other way are merely attempts to troll out the idiocy reported by FAUX and Freaks.

[The Rich Port]

You believe that the city and state run betting office, a barbecue restaurant, and a strip joint to be terrible things?

Mind, two out of three of those don't interest me, but I don't see how they are "bad" and in need of protest.

Point taken, but I find it hypocritical the "Christian" Right, who actually dissaprove of titty bars and gambling, ignore the fact these other things desecrate their call for holy revenge.

you dont like betting and barbecue?

Of COURSE I do! I'm a Deist. I can do anything I want and believe anything I want and God will still let me into Heaven. It's the best deal since "BUY A CAR, GET A HOUSE".

[Hyde2]

Yet more proof that your claim of opposition wasn't clerically/religiously motivated was in fact a fucking lie.

Religiously motivated? I'm an atheist. Clerically motivated? I don't even know what that means

You are worse that the 9/11 terrorists... 9/11 Terrorists only had the power to kill some people, and inflict property damage...

Yep, this is totally not partisan bullshit at all.

You seek a path to the absolute destruction of America's ideological foundations, and do so under the disguise of protecting it...

You don't know shit, you're generalising and pigeon holing me into this category despite not knowing anything about me, all based on me disagreeing with you. That's retarded. For the record, I'm not American, none of my opinions would have an impact on American politics. If you didn't think 9/11 had an extremely destructive and profound effect on American- fuck that- WORLD politics, I cannot believe you are not trolling.

I'd much rather be against a terrorist than you... The terrorist can merely kill some of us, you can destroy everything our nation stands for.

Bullshit rhetoric, you know nothing about me. You are sounding just like those militant Christian republicans, if you don't support their opinion, you "hate merca!!!" and you "want to destroy the family 'everything our nation stands for'".

This isn't trolling, this is fact.

No, this is trolling, and it's an extremely obnoxious and offensive opinion.

I'm not the one screaming like a bitch like it's the end of the world that an interfaith community wants to build a community center, merely because they will also have muslim prayer services there.

I'm not doing anything of the sort. The only thing that's making me angry is the ridiculous statements in this thread, I don't particularly care about the Mosque, I even support their right to build it.

That you "deliberately made them American" for the issue proves that your intent is to paint Cordoba with a false image of what the organization actually is (it's actually an interfaith community with Muslims, Christians and Jews on its executive board, and has advisoers as equally spread through those as well)

I don't care, it's the principle that counts, it's not like ANYTHING would have changed if it was a 100% pure mosque. I don't care about this centre, I care about the arguments presented in this thread, even it's a hypothetical reality rather than a real one, it's still real opinions.

, and that even after shown the error you continue to assert it proves this was not an error of not being properly informed

Conceded, the media and everyone else has been blasting away about it being a mosque for the last few weeks, I had no idea it was actually some 'interfaith' community centre (although, again, I am sceptical that this isn't more stuff that has been cocked up to support your position). But as I said, this is irrelevant, it's the principle and the arguments I'm interested in.

, but rather purposeful intent on your part to provide disinformation to continue to assert your bigotry into the public debate.[/QUOTE[

Name one thing I've said which is bigoted, or stop lying.

and pretend this Community center is like building the Dome of the Rock in the middle of NYC because the truth that there are Muslim Americans, that there are Moderate Muslims, and that there were Muslims who were victims and suffered equally as non Muslims in the attacks on 9/11 are all extremely inconvientient to your vile bigotry which wants to pretend like this is a fucking invasion of America.

Get the fuck out, I know there are American muslims, I have defended them on many occasions in many previous threads. I fucking hate how if anyone ever fucking disagrees with you they must be a vile bigot, you are the worst kind of debater.

[Tekania]

To upgrade the comparison, letting this get built would be like lettings a group founded by a Canadian-Iraqi immigrant composed of Iraqi-Christians, Muslims and Jews, build a community/outreach center in Baghdad near where Americans slaughtered Iraqi civilians.

[Gift-of-god]

Yet more proof that your claim of opposition wasn't clerically/religiously motivated was in fact a fucking lie.

Religiously motivated? I'm an atheist. Clerically motivated? I don't even know what that means

Tekania is confused about your reply to the statement that "any opposition to the mosque not based on anti-clericalism is bullshit".

Conceded, the media and everyone else has been blasting away about it being a mosque for the last few weeks, I had no idea it was actually some 'interfaith' community centre (although, again, I am sceptical that this isn't more stuff that has been cocked up to support your position). But as I said, this is irrelevant, it's the principle and the arguments I'm interested in.

From what I understand, it is an interfaith centre that will contain a mosque as well as other social amenities.

[Hyde2]

From what I understand, it is an interfaith centre that will contain a mosque as well as other social amenities.

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

But apparently I'm a bigot who thinks all Arabs are Iraqis and that all Muslims are terrorists, and I seek destroy the foundations of America and am actually worse than the 9/11 terrorists.

[The Rich Port]

From what I understand, it is an interfaith centre that will contain a mosque as well as other social amenities.

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

But apparently I'm a bigot who thinks all Arabs are Iraqis and that all Muslims are terrorists, and I seek destroy the foundations of America and am actually worse than the 9/11 terrorists.

To some degree. I agree, but in the end, it is indeed THEIR decision. But I'm certain they can't be so insensitive that they'll openly decry the U.S. for being a corrupting influence, especially when they too would be hypocrites. Only Republicans are that dumb.

[New high charity 24]

We might as well put a replica of the atomic bomb by Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because that's what this is like. Sure, it's not against the constitution, but think about the victims and the country as a whole.

Who's 'we'?

America.

So let me get this straight.

You want the U.S Government to put a replica of in Hiroshima and Nagaski because a Muslim organization are putting a religious building near ground zero?

Do you know how stupid that sounds?

yeah, pretty much!

[The Rich Port]

They still let insurance companies set up office in and around Louisiana. By the logic of the Republicanz, they should close down all the insurance companies in Louisiana as well. Particularly Nationwide, who, as facts now show, is NOT on your side.

[Geniasis]

We might as well put a replica of the atomic bomb by Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because that's what this is like. Sure, it's not against the constitution, but think about the victims and the country as a whole.

Who's 'we'?

America.

So let me get this straight.

You want the U.S Government to put a replica of in Hiroshima and Nagaski because a Muslim organization are putting a religious building near ground zero?

Do you know how stupid that sounds?

yeah, pretty much!

Under what authority could the government do that?

[Gift-of-god]

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

I think this may be a rendering of the proposed building:

http://www.tricycle.com/blog/?p=2136

But apparently I'm a bigot who thinks all Arabs are Iraqis and that all Muslims are terrorists, and I seek destroy the foundations of America and am actually worse than the 9/11 terrorists.

Yes, that was surreal.

[The Rich Port]

Under what authority could the government do that?

People's, of course. Fortunately, a few thousand conservatives =/= "The People".

[Geniasis]

Under what authority could the government do that?

People's, of course. Fortunately, a few thousand conservatives =/= "The People".

Thing is, the US government doesn't have the authority to put up a memorial in Japan.

[The Rich Port]

Under what authority could the government do that?

People's, of course. Fortunately, a few thousand conservatives =/= "The People".

Thing is, the US government doesn't have the authority to put up a memorial in Japan.

Admittedly. But it's not like the Japanese would stop them. Besides, don't they already have a memorial up that they helped finance? The one that's at the epicenter of the Hiroshima bomb, right?

[Tekania]

From what I understand, it is an interfaith centre that will contain a mosque as well as other social amenities.

What I'm concerned with is really what it would look like, I'm of the opinion that architecture is actually an important influence over the local populace, which is perhaps a heterodox opinion. If it contains too many features that will immediately conjure up images if orthodox Islam, like a large spire, then I think that the decision to put it in such close proximity to ground zero is unwise, but this doesn't mean I don't support their right to do so regardless, otherwise I don't care at all.

But apparently I'm a bigot who thinks all Arabs are Iraqis and that all Muslims are terrorists, and I seek destroy the foundations of America and am actually worse than the 9/11 terrorists.

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

What opposition says is, "we don't want you"... The opposition is mostly non-Manhattaners, not invested in the local community attempting to thwart this group and tell them to leave their community and go elsewhere. It's telling people who lost family and friends on 9/11 that they are not wanted there. Just as I would stand against a group of KKK members attempting to scare and intimidate blacks from coming out to the polls to vote... I will stand against the people opposing Park51 attempting to drive these local Muslims out of Manhattan. One is no different than the other.

[Hyde2]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

In that case, I don't care at all.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Admittedly. But it's not like the Japanese would stop them.

[Dempublicents1]

Conceded, the media and everyone else has been blasting away about it being a mosque for the last few weeks, I had no idea it was actually some 'interfaith' community centre (although, again, I am sceptical that this isn't more stuff that has been cocked up to support your position).

Why don't you actually, you know, look it up?

Here, I'll help:
http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm

[Helertia]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

It's also hideous, you forgot to mention that.

[Tekania]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

It's also hideous, you forgot to mention that.

Yes, it'll fit in with modern Manhattan architecture well.

[Helertia]

It's design is a glass and steel block like most of the rest of Manhattan. About the same hight as the building covering the opposite side of the block, and smaller and shorter than the buildings covering the next two blocks approaching "Ground Zero"., it would end up being the fourth largest building in those three blocks after the aforementioned three. There is already a Muslim religious service being held on the present property inside the old Burlington Coat Factory building. So what is really going on here, is Cordoba is going to tear down the existing property, build the new building, who will house both the existing group of muslims who have been meeting at that location, and provide much additional space for community outreach services and programs.

It's also hideous, you forgot to mention that.

Yes, it'll fit in with modern Manhattan architecture well.

It would, if it were built among it. Seeing as it's built in a bunch of masonary buildings...



Architects are such idiots sometimes - This is a perfect example of a building with no urban manners. Gaudi was weird and unusual, but his buildings fit in with the rest of Barcelona. This building is ugly glass and steel, built among fine masonary.

[Miklesia]

This building is ugly glass and steel, built among fine masonary.

Fine? Those are hideous rectangular slabs of concrete!