Honor in the World?

[Katganistan]

So if a woman slaps you, you would slug her?

Why should a woman get a free pass for slapping someone?

So you automatically hit back? No.

If someone hits me, and that someone is not a kid or a student, then yes, I'd smack them back.
What I want to know is why there's a magical line where women can hit men, but men are automatically wrong if they respond in kind.

[Maurepas]

It should be common sense that PEOPLE should never hit OTHER PEOPLE.

Unfortunately, Testosterone usually hinders Common Sense...

Women, for the most part, do not have this burden,

[Farnhamia]

This is NSG. We are snarkiness incarnate.

You're right, though, no one should hit anyone else, save in defense and to prevent physical injury to one's self. Gender should not have anything to do with the matter.

So if a woman slaps you, you would slug her?

If she was attacking me, yes.

"Attacking" is something else. If she were trying to do me harm, I would try to restrain her and defend myself, even if that involves striking her. "Slap" implies, at least to me, something rahter less than that.

I'm a woman, too, by the way.

[Lizardiar]

Just out of curisoity, how does honor relate to hitting anybody? I mean, unless we're dealing with Klingons (At which case smaking your woman arround is not only acceptable, but the start of a wonderful relationship), I'm not too sure how you're tying the idea of honor into DV.

I guess I was just raised to respect women no matter what they do to me, I would never ever hit a woman. If she slapped me I would either take it or just grab her hand to make her stop.

[Grave_n_idle]

It should be common sense that PEOPLE should never hit OTHER PEOPLE.

Unfortunately, Testosterone usually hinders Common Sense...

Women, for the most part, do not have this burden,

...common sense?

You're braver than I...

[Katganistan]

Uh... Kat IS a woman you know. She'd probably have no qualms about hitting back.

I mean, look at that poor police horse.

I'm gonna get hit now, aren't I?

I keep telling you all, HE HAD IT COMING!

[Maurepas]

It should be common sense that PEOPLE should never hit OTHER PEOPLE.

Unfortunately, Testosterone usually hinders Common Sense...

Women, for the most part, do not have this burden,

...common sense?

You're braver than I...

I was joking, of course, it is usually believed that Men are more prone to fight and hit things than Women...

Its not true, but I was making a bad joke about that conception...

EDIT: And the burden I was referring to was Testosterone...

[Farnhamia]

Why should a woman get a free pass for slapping someone?

So you automatically hit back? No.

If someone hits me, and that someone is not a kid or a student, then yes, I'd smack them back.
What I want to know is why there's a magical line where women can hit men, but men are automatically wrong if they respond in kind.

It is always best to assume men are wrong until proven right. It saves time.

I still think I might not automatically hit back. If someone was so angry that they swung at me, I would at least try to defuse the anger.

[Wilgrove]

Honor is what get you killed in battle. In War and in battle, be ruthless and as merciless as possible.

[Desperate Measures]

I'm often forced to duel when strange men walk up and punch my wife right in the goddamned face.

That's certainly a moment of you standing over your wife for a moment, "What the hell did you do to deserve that?" before knocking out the offending asshole.

Are you suggesting that my wife acts anything less than honorably?

[Katganistan]

Just out of curisoity, how does honor relate to hitting anybody? I mean, unless we're dealing with Klingons (At which case smaking your woman arround is not only acceptable, but the start of a wonderful relationship), I'm not too sure how you're tying the idea of honor into DV.

I guess I was just raised to respect women no matter what they do to me, I would never ever hit a woman. If she slapped me I would either take it or just grab her hand to make her stop.

Why should you take it?
Why is violence against men, by women, ok whereas violence against women, by men, even in self-defense, is not?

[Lizardiar]

Honor is what get you killed in battle. In War and in battle, be ruthless and as merciless as possible.

But in normal life?

[Grave_n_idle]

Unfortunately, Testosterone usually hinders Common Sense...

Women, for the most part, do not have this burden,

...common sense?

You're braver than I...

I was joking, of course, it is usually believed that Men are more prone to fight and hit things than Women...

Its not true, but I was making a bad joke about that conception...

EDIT: And the burden I was referring to was Testosterone...

Bwaa ha ha!

[Lizardiar]

Why should you take it?
Why is violence against men, by women, ok whereas violence against women, by men, even in self-defense, is not?

I don't know, it is just the beliefs my parents and grandparents have instilled in me.

Why? Are they bad beliefs?

[Wilgrove]

If someone hits me, and that someone is not a kid or a student, then yes, I'd smack them back.
What I want to know is why there's a magical line where women can hit men, but men are automatically wrong if they respond in kind.

Because it goes back to the idea that women are weaker than men, physically so to hit her is like hitting a child. Honestly, I'd never hit a woman either, it was just how I was raised.

[Katganistan]

It should be common sense that PEOPLE should never hit OTHER PEOPLE.

Unfortunately, Testosterone usually hinders Common Sense...

Women, for the most part, do not have this burden,

Really?
Give me a choice of stepping between two teen males fighting, and two teen females fighting, and I will step between the two males every time.

If you don't think that women can fight, and fight dirty, and go to maim each other, you're very very naive. I've seen everything from acrylic nails to rings to keys used to tear people's faces up, in addition to just plain old punching the crap out of someone.

So please, no waxing poetic about the gentle sex....

[Parthenon]

Whats better than honor?

In her

[Maurepas]

It should be common sense that PEOPLE should never hit OTHER PEOPLE.

Unfortunately, Testosterone usually hinders Common Sense...

Women, for the most part, do not have this burden,

Really?
Give me a choice of stepping between two teen males fighting, and two teen females fighting, and I will step between the two males every time.

If you don't think that women can fight, and fight dirty, and go to maim each other, you're very very naive. I've seen everything from acrylic nails to rings to keys used to tear people's faces up, in addition to just plain old punching the crap out of someone.

So please, no waxing poetic about the gentle sex....

Oh, no doubt, as previously stated, it was a bad joke about a common misconception...

[Marcuslandia]

I grew up in abusive family. Dad was _frequently_ knocking Mom around. Both parents wouldn't hesitate to whack any of the kids "if they had it coming" (which seemed to be frequently). My older brother never hesitated to whack any of his younger siblings if they annoyed him in any way (and the folks weren't looking). My two sisters were frequently literally trying to claw each other's eyes out. And lucky me, being the younger by a large gap, probably would've have kicked the dog (had we had one).

When I got older, I learned what "dysfunctional family" meant and recognized my family immediately. And if anything, I learned from them what NOT to do. And one lesson I derived was: There is no such thing as a Good Reason good enough to warrant whacking another person, outside of self-defense. Years later, it took being engaged to a pointedly neurotic lady to discover I WAS WRONG. (I believe it was that time where she literally got in my face and pointedly needled me until I backhanded her -- at which point she smiled -- just to prove she could make me do it that I realized I needed to run, don't walk, to the nearest exit and never look back.)

If others _know_ that there is a class of people that you will NEVER strike, certain members of that class will take that as a license to abuse the hell out of **you**. Many times it becomes a game with them to test you to find where your breaking point is. Such a situation literally makes you their punching bag, physically and emotionally.

I have come to the conclusion that like in the world diplomatic arena, what is called for is a "proportional response". If you are assaulted by another, physically, mentally, emotionally, _they_ have set the limit. How hard they hit you determines how hard you can hit back. Hitting them harder is an invitation for them to escalate as well. Hitting them _as_ hard as they hit you sends the message that, "Whatever level of injury you inflict, that is how much YOU will get back. Is that what you _really_ want?"

Maybe it's the aura I give off, but in the last 20 years I have had to get physical with another person exactly twice, and those confrontations de-escalated after just one exchange of blows.

There is a line in John Wayne's movie, "The Shootist" which seems to describe this policy: "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

[Consaria]

1. Screw honer
2. Women want equal rights? It gose both ways.

[Katganistan]

If someone hits me, and that someone is not a kid or a student, then yes, I'd smack them back.
What I want to know is why there's a magical line where women can hit men, but men are automatically wrong if they respond in kind.

Because it goes back to the idea that women are weaker than men, physically so to hit her is like hitting a child. Honestly, I'd never hit a woman either, it was just how I was raised.

Ok, Wil, I know you're not trying to be offensive, but just think a moment... you just equated women to children.
This is the problem that I have with this whole "you can't hit women, specifically, not even if they're attacking you," thing.

Women are not weaker, sillier, gentler, more naive, less able to care for themselves than men are. Some take advantage of that notion and use it to get away with being abusive. I don't think anyone should hit anyone else, but I am of the opinion that if anyone decides to raise their hands, they can't complain about getting hit back.

[Klonor]

So if a woman slaps you, you would slug her?

It does depend on the situation, since not every single slap merits a counter-attack (As the overly-quoted adage goes "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"), but if this was a serious attempt to injure my person, or a prelude to some other form of attack, then yes, I would slug her, and as hard as I could. I'd probably aim for the throat or solar plexus to put her down hard, and might follow through with a stomp after she was down. No, it's not fighting dirty, it's common sense, survival instinct, and eleven years of karate.

You never start a fight, you never start swining because somebody insulted you or slighted you insignificantly (Which is something "honor" doesn't seem to realize), but if you've reached a point where people have actually begun to throw punches, a situation where you can no longer laugh off whatever the problem is and can't just walk away, then you end it, you end it fast, and you end it any way you can. Period.

Despite the fact (And it is a biological fact) that women are, on average, of a smaller size than men, they possess zero natraul deficiencies when it comes to unarmed combat; strength matters for squat when leverage and inertia are involved, not to mention other variables like skill, speed, determination, and plain bitch-crazy rage. They actually have less natural targets in a fight (Again, joking aside, getting a man in the balls is a great way to stop a fight, and though women are far from painless in their nether-regions, they don't have the bundle of nerves and soft-tissue that men have) and they also have the addition of socially-acceptable weapons (Long nails are very effective, and men face a lot of societal pressure not to have them). Add to all this the fact that many people are taught not to hit a woman, which puts some real mental conflict into the issue, and women are just as dangerous, if not more so, than men.

If a woman hits me, and it's a serious hit, honor be damned; I will drop her as fast as I possibly can, get the hell out of there, and then file assault and battery charges, along with whatever else I can throw into the mix. It's that simple.

[NERVUN]

If she was attacking me, yes.

"Attacking" is something else. If she were trying to do me harm, I would try to restrain her and defend myself, even if that involves striking her. "Slap" implies, at least to me, something rahter less than that.

I'm a woman, too, by the way.

Not always, I have seen full out attacks start with a slap. Klonor said it better than I can, but it is a philosophy I too learned from my sensei in the art, you do everything in your power to avoid a fight, you retreat if possible, but if someone has attacked you, they have given you permission to do whatever it takes to stop them, up to and including their deaths. And you do it fast, and (Given Kenpo) you do it dirty. Now that said, my wife smacked me this morning for being a brat, of course I didn't hit her back (I also didn't stop teasing her either). Nor would I go full out on someone who slaps me and backs off, but I don't excuse physical abuse from anyone just because she might happen to have two XXs while I have an XY set. Abuse is abuse, no matter WHO starts it.

[Farnhamia]

If she was attacking me, yes.

"Attacking" is something else. If she were trying to do me harm, I would try to restrain her and defend myself, even if that involves striking her. "Slap" implies, at least to me, something rahter less than that.

I'm a woman, too, by the way.

Not always, I have seen full out attacks start with a slap. Klonor said it better than I can, but it is a philosophy I too learned from my sensei in the art, you do everything in your power to avoid a fight, you retreat if possible, but if someone has attacked you, they have given you permission to do whatever it takes to stop them, up to and including their deaths. And you do it fast, and (Given Kenpo) you do it dirty. Now that said, my wife smacked me this morning for being a brat, of course I didn't hit her back (I also didn't stop teasing her either). Nor would I go full out on someone who slaps me and backs off, but I don't excuse physical abuse from anyone just because she might happen to have two XXs while I have an XY set. Abuse is abuse, no matter WHO starts it.

Obviously I haven't been expressing myself properly, because I agree with you. And with your Sensei, too.

[Marcuslandia]

Awhile back somebody sent me to this YouTube clip that seems to be quite germane to this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jat7Z24Z ... PL&index=2