Gordonopia wrote:Also, what "civil rights" are you referring to?
Prop. 8 specifically deprived same-sex couples of the civil right to marry, which was protected by the California Constitution (see In Re Marriage Cases) and is protected by the US Constitution (via the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, for the most straightforward argument.)
I know that that is a popular buzzword that is thrown around by pro-gay liberals all of the time, but it fundamentally lacks substance.
Because you say so?
Even if I did buy that argument, which I don't, that is a two way street.
Yes, it is. I don't approve of Christian marriage--I think traditional Christian sexual morality is bankrupt and tends to cause harm to the people who adhere to it--but I support your right to marry anyway. Why don't you support mine?
My civil rights are violated when I am forced to accept homosexuality in a public school, or at diversity training at the workplace, or when I am told that my deeply held beliefs are stupid and that by not supporting sin I am somehow a bad person.
Actually,
none of these violate your civil rights.
1. Translating "forced to accept" to "forced to hear about and accept the existence of", even to the extent this actually occurs (not much), it is in no way a violation of your civil rights, any more than it is a violation of the rights of racists to teach black history in public school.
2. "[D]iversity training at the workplace" does not even conceivably violate your civil rights! Where on Earth does this notion come from? Companies that want to attract LGBT customers and employees ensure that their employees treat LGBT customers and co-workers fairly. So what? They are not making you renounce your religious beliefs, or have sex with men yourself.
3. Your civil rights are never violated by people (correctly) arguing that your eagerness to deny rights to same-sex couples is deeply immoral and objectionable.
Funny that no one acknowledges the blatant discrimination that people of faith experience on a daily basis, but are quick to come to the rescue of homosexual "victims".
Funny how you elevate your ludicrous fantasies of persecution over the actual suffering of and legal discrimination against gays and lesbians.
Actually, not funny. More "contemptible."
Victims of what? Not getting their way? Not being 100% successful in corrupting the family? Hmmmmm.
Um. Victims of discriminatory marriage laws, federally and in forty-five states, that assign second-class citizenship to same-sex couples (and people who want to enter into same-sex relationships more broadly) and deal material economic harm. Victims of employment discrimination, from which there is no legal protection on the basis of sexual orientation in most states (religion, of course,
is protected, actually more so than other categories because employees must accommodate it.) Victims of hate crimes. And those are just the respects that concern public policy. We could talk about culture, too, about the social forces that marginalize gays and lesbians, that lead to the hugely disproportionate number of LGBT homeless youth, that cause so many gays and lesbians still to grow up closeted and self-hating.
But you aren't interested in hearing any of this, of course. The only narrative you are willing to listen to, clearly, is your own: a fantastic world wherein gays are greedy and selfish whiners with all the power, persecuting the poor traditional Christians whose sincerely-held moral beliefs mandate that they... um... take away marriage rights from
other people?