Should Students be Expelled for Religious/Sexual Beliefs?

[Lacadaemon]

This is just like when I was told I could not get my driving license when I turned up for the test drunk citing my belief that I drive better after a drink or two.

What a travesty!

Political correctness gone mad I tell you.

[Conserative Morality]

Oh thank God! Someone who isn't a radical lefty!

Supporting science makes me a radical lefty?

[Kreanoltha]

But she wasn't. She was just saying, and I agree, that homosexuality is a choice instead of a problem with neuro-chemical connections. That's a far cry from beating gays don't you think?

Which was why I said I wasn't so sure expulsion in this case was warranted.

How could it ever be warranted in a case like this? This is a student rationally stating what she thinks, which is what we have collages for.

[Tmutarakhan]

Not all Christians are as fervent about spreading and converting others to their faith as atheists are.

She sounds like she is on the ultra-fervent end.

I imagine that there's a far cry between saying "I'd rather not interact with homosexuals in my professional/personal life"...

She should not be choosing a profession where she would have to encounter all kinds of people, then. Contrary to You-Gi-Owe's impression, we are not confined to West Hollywood.

and "I think I'm going to a re-education camp and start psychologically destroying homosexuals."

That does sound more like what she intends.

Equally, there's a far cry between talking about what could happen, and what has happened.

Well, we can't talk about what really happened until we get a source better than WND, which has been known to get the date correct, but seldom much else. Really we are just talking about our hypothetical impressions of what the real story might be here.

[The Rich Port]

They made him read "gay" literature? The MONSTERS.

Should you get expelled for having certain religious or political beliefs (believing there's a God, believing Communism could work, believing Pastafarianism is a real religion), of course not.

Should you get expelled for being an a**hole (actually believing homosexuals/blacks/people different from you are beneath you, believing said people should die)... Well, it depends on the willingness of the a**hole to not be an a**hole anymore.

[Lehengolt]

A person's beliefs shapes the way they interact and what decisions they make. If the organization doesn't support your beliefs or at least accept that you have the right to your beliefs, then don't be a part of the organization. It's called integrity - having the courage to do what's right, even if it will cost you. People who have it should keep a healthy distance from those who don't, because those who don't will single out those who do for taking a hardline stance.

If doing the right thing was always easy, more people would be doing it.

[Unhealthy2]

So then if I believe that Christianity is the only way to achieve eternal salvation I shouldn't be tolerated because I believe that homosexuality is an abomination? But if I think that being gay is a good way to get attention I should be tolerated? That's not a double standard at all.

So then if I believe some tribal religion is absolute truth I shouldn't be tolerated because part of the belief system is that my race is inherently superior I shouldn't be tolerated? OMG DOUBLE STANDARD LOL!!!

It's not a double standard because no one other than postmodern idiots or people like you constructing deliberate strawmen think that "tolerance" is to be taken literally as "let's tolerate absolutely everything."

Also, what's this about gays doing it for attention?

[Barringtonia]

Also, what's this about gays doing it for attention?

Well dahling, persecution is quite fabulous donchano?

[Delator]

Another source...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/2 ... 59274.html

It sounds like Counseling is the worst possible profession for this person to try to go in to.

Indeed...

"Keeton's own e-mail response to the faculty members who allegedly were pressuring her to adopt a pro-homosexual belief system defines the dispute.

"In order to finish the counseling program you are requiring me to alter my objective beliefs and also to commit now that if I ever may have a client who wants me to affirm their decision to have an abortion or engage in gay, lesbian or transgender behavior, I will do that. I can't alter my biblical beliefs, and I will not affirm the morality of those behaviors in a counseling situation."

Then you can't be a counselor. It's that simple.

She probably should have thought of that little detail before entering the graduate program.

Instead she want's an accredited professional institution to adjust to her beliefs, while crying foul that her beliefs are being disrespected. Talk about hypocrisy.

Letting a bigot be your counselor is akin to letting a Christian Scientist be your surgeon...probably not the best idea in the world.

Augusta State is just protecting itself, as they should, from potential legal action later. The school was essentially screwed either way, and I'm glad to see they didn't cave to this students whims.

[Bramborska]

Not all Christians are as fervent about spreading and converting others to their faith as atheists are.

Why don't you look at the number of billboards for Christianity vs. the number of Christians, the same for atheists, look at the number of proposed bills to encourage or enforce atheism vs. the number to encourage or enforce Christianity, and some other stats and then we can talk about who's trying harder to convert whom, and who's just trying to assert their legitimacy in a society that considers them subhuman.

All I know is that I live in Orange Country California; which is, basically, somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. I've only been accosted by three religiously devout people in my fairly short life. One was a Jehovah's witness, one was an atheist overhearing me mock Dawkin's book cover to a friend, and the other was after I said something incredibly insensitive (yet nonetheless funny) about homosexuals. I'm not one-hundred percent certain billboards, TV ads or anything else directly affects my life like those extremely bizarre experiences. I'm biased, I admit that, but I will also admit that I'll never try to play the waaaammbulance card.

Look at those strawmen burn! I never said she would try to start a re-education camp. Let me use your own stupid line against you. There's a far cry between starting a re-education camp and giving bad psychological advise.

It's so great that your concerned about her professional integrity. Please, enlighten me, how will her psychological accuracy improve--from your own point of view--if she's kicked out her graduate school?

But not so much with what will very likely happen. There are Christians with closet homosexual desires. They aren't a hypothetical kind of person. They are real. They also have psychological problems just like everyone else. In fact, the repressed sexuality often causes them to have MORE problems, and thus they would be more likely to seek counseling than average. They also often seek counseling RELATED to "correcting" their gayness. These people exist. They are not a fantasy. This is not some wild-eyed shit here.

Well, no offense, you do sound a little wild-eyed batshit insane. I mean, if I saw you tomorrow while I was getting groceries talking about how new Christian counseling graduates are out there seeking to "correct gayness" as part of some vast conspiracy involving "asserting their dominance over--who they consider subhuman--atheists, homosexuals and society..." No offense, but I'd quickly start walking the other way. I mean, seriously, say what your typing aloud to some people and see if they look at you oddly.

[Tmutarakhan]

The HIV virus is small enough to get through the rubber of the condom

This is an often-exposed lie, widely circulated by the Catholic Church.

[Vetalia]

She didn't want to adhere to the program, so they expelled her. That's a much better option than giving her a degree when she utterly failed to meet the responsibilities of the program because of her beliefs. Considering the likelihood that she'll be facing this sort of issue time and again in her field, perhaps the best option is to reconsider her major. Nobody's going to want a potential loose cannon like this on-board their staff anyways...her best bet would be to pursue a religious institution for their counseling services, not a secular one. That way, her religious beliefs and counseling responsibilities won't conflict.

From my vantage point, it''s as asinine an issue as someone suing a seminary for being expelled because an atheist student didn't want to be forced to go to Mass. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...if you really want to act according to your beliefs, you have to show initiative and take matters in to your own hands. You can't expect others to give you special treatment.

[Kreanoltha]

So then if I believe that Christianity is the only way to achieve eternal salvation I shouldn't be tolerated because I believe that homosexuality is an abomination? But if I think that being gay is a good way to get attention I should be tolerated? That's not a double standard at all.

So then if I believe some tribal religion is absolute truth I shouldn't be tolerated because part of the belief system is that my race is inherently superior I shouldn't be tolerated? OMG DOUBLE STANDARD LOL!!!

It's not a double standard because no one other than postmodern idiots or people like you constructing deliberate strawmen think that "tolerance" is to be taken literally as "let's tolerate absolutely everything."

Also, what's this about gays doing it for attention?

So what I'm hearing is that it's okay to discriminate against religious people, but not people who choose to be gay. There is no double standard there at all. Nope. You, my friend, are tolerant.

[Bramborska]

The majority of people don't go to local community colleges.

So we're in agreement that 'The majority has trouble with/does not' is not a valid argument, right?

I got your back on that one. *Nods*

[Gordonopia]

Also, what's this about gays doing it for attention?

Well dahling, persecution is quite fabulous donchano?

Oh, let's not talk about persecution. Christians are routinely persecuted and ostracized while homosexuality is celebrated and accepted.

[Unhealthy2]

1) Really? I'm sorry to burst your little PC bubble, but homosexuality really is a choice. Individuals choose the behavior that they are going to engage in and with whom. I know that this is a common liberal talking point, but it really is not valid.

Sorry to burst your delusions, but I'm not much for political correctness. I do, however, appear to have the advantage in understanding the fucking difference between SEXUALITY and sexual BEHAVIOR. Apparently, you lack the understanding of the difference between these two. Homosexuality is the ATTRACTION to members of the same sex. It is not having sex with members of your own gender.

2) Gays are pushing there agenda in all areas of public life, especially in public schools and in the political arena. There are numerous examples of schools celebrating the homosexual lifestyle and attempting to indoctrinate kids into believing that homosexuality is just as normal and fulfilling as heterosexuality. In American culture today, Christianity is being scrubbed from the public sector because of bogus Establishment Clause claims and is being replaced with the not so values neutral teachings of Secular Humanism and Postmodernism. If you don't support homosexuality, you are labeled as "bigoted" and "ignorant". That is how homosexuals are forcing their lifestlye down everyone's throat.

Yeah, those gays with their agenda! Well, what is their agenda anyway? It's the agenda of being accepted. Oh My Fucking God! Those monsters! That's the most RADICAL agenda I've ever seen!

Bogus establishment clause claims? What exactly does that mean?

Also, I like how telling kids that gays exist and that homosexual relationships can be fulfilling (not really a matter of opinion Even if gays are evil, the question of whether a homosexual relationship can be fulfilling is completely a factual claim, not a matter of what suits one's political agenda.)

Another thing, why are you conflating the radically different philosophies of secular humanism and postmodernism? One is a reasonable way to run a pluralistic society. The other is absolute and complete bullshit.

3) True. But it doesn't make it right.

What? Doesn't make what right? This answer doesn't make any sense contextually.

[Barringtonia]

So what I'm hearing is that it's okay to discriminate against religious people, but not people who choose to be gay. There is no double standard there at all. Nope. You, my friend, are tolerant.

Think of it this way: would a Church accept me as a priest if I stated that I didn't believe in God? No, they'd be stupid to wouldn't they? Nor would you say they're just being intolerant, it's just that being a priest kind of requires belief in god.

Well guess what, being a counsellor requires toleration of homosexuals.

[Unchecked Expansion]

From the sounds of it, she is willing to let personal prejudices override professional ethics, and has no business being a counsellor. If she can't meet the ethical standards of her course, why should she be on it?

[Avenio]

Oh for frigg's sake. This isn't that big of a deal. The National Board of Certified Counselors has a certain code of ethics that it requires practitioners to follow, very much like the Hippocratic Oath in the rest of medicine, setting out guidelines for ethic practices, like not having sexual relations with your patients, not involving themselves in situations where there is a conflict of interest with their patients and keeping all medical records sealed and secured. Straight forward stuff really. Unfortunately for this student, one of the stipulations is as follows;

12. Through an awareness of the impact of stereotyping and unwarranted discrimination (e.g., biases based on age, disability, ethnicity, gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation), certified counselors guard the individual rights and
personal dignity of the client in the counseling relationship.

Which basically means that the counselor cannot come under the influence of bias when treating patients, regardless of what they may feel personally about the person(s)/situation and must provide the same care as they do for everyone else. This student, evidently, cannot in good conscience follow proper medical consensus on the issue, because of her morality or her religion, and thus should not be a counselor. Period.

[Unhealthy2]

Supporting science makes me a radical lefty?

Yes, because it means you can't take the bible literally.

[Our L Lawliet]

So what I'm hearing is that it's okay to discriminate against religious people, but not people who choose to be gay. There is no double standard there at all. Nope. You, my friend, are tolerant.

I'm curious. What the fuck do I have to gain from being gay? Perhaps you can tell me as I can't seem to figure it out.

[Vetalia]

Which basically means that the counselor cannot come under the influence of bias when treating patients, regardless of what they may feel personally about the person(s)/situation and must provide the same care as they do for everyone else. This student, evidently, cannot in good conscience follow proper medical consensus on the issue, because of her morality or her religion, and thus should not be a counselor. Period.

There it is. Thank you.

Of course, it's pretty sad our society is at a point where so many people think the best solution to all their problems is not to change themselves or to take initiative and pursue a path concordant with their beliefs but to try to force others to change through lawsuits. All this will do is torpedo her chances of success in the field were she able to complete the program.

[Caninope]

So what I'm hearing is that it's okay to discriminate against religious people, but not people who choose to be gay. There is no double standard there at all. Nope. You, my friend, are tolerant.

Think of it this way: would a Church accept me as a priest if I stated that I didn't believe in God? No, they'd be stupid to wouldn't they? Nor would you say they're just being intolerant, it's just that being a priest kind of requires belief in god.

Well guess what, being a counsellor requires toleration of homosexuals.

The difference is that this is a public college. They can't deny people for their beliefs but foreign governments or private organizations (to an extent within the US) can.

[Barringtonia]

Also, what's this about gays doing it for attention?

Well dahling, persecution is quite fabulous donchano?

Oh, let's not talk about persecution. Christians are routinely persecuted and ostracized while homosexuality is celebrated and accepted.

I'd laugh if I wasn't crying.

[Wamitoria]

Also, what's this about gays doing it for attention?

Well dahling, persecution is quite fabulous donchano?

Oh, let's not talk about persecution. Christians are routinely persecuted and ostracized while homosexuality is celebrated and accepted.

I'd laugh if I wasn't crying.

I'd cry if I wasn't laughing.