Pope calls for UN reform.

[Greed and Death]

...which is... bad?

Moralizing is moralizing.
It is just as bad to tell someone they must give their money to the poor, as it is to tell a pregnant teen they can not get an abortion.

But moralising isn't bad....

Everyone has different morals so providing one set of morals as what must be done makes one incorrect.
Add in the Your going to hell for not obeying authority of the pope, the moralizing is most certainly not good.

And, if we CAN end suffering by sharing... shouldn't we?

We can not end suffering.

[Treznor]

Everyone has different morals so providing one set of morals as what must be done makes one incorrect.
Add in the Your going to hell for not obeying authority of the pope, the moralizing is most certainly not good.

I can't agree with this enough. However....

And, if we CAN end suffering by sharing... shouldn't we?

We can not end suffering.

That doesn't justify not trying to end it. If all we accomplish is to ease the suffering, then it will be worth it.

[Greed and Death]

Everyone has different morals so providing one set of morals as what must be done makes one incorrect.
Add in the Your going to hell for not obeying authority of the pope, the moralizing is most certainly not good.

And, if we CAN end suffering by sharing... shouldn't we?

We can not end suffering.

That doesn't justify not trying to end it. If all we accomplish is to ease the suffering, then it will be worth it.

Do you really ease it ?
Or do you encourage people to remain where there is no work and no food, which would prolong suffering rather then ease it.
You also seem to encourage those same people to have large numbers of children, which will induce future suffering.

[Treznor]

We can not end suffering.

That doesn't justify not trying to end it. If all we accomplish is to ease the suffering, then it will be worth it.

Do you really ease it ?
Or do you encourage people to remain where there is no work and no food, which would prolong suffering rather then ease it.
You also seem to encourage those same people to have large numbers of children, which will induce future suffering.

That sounds suspiciously like the Ferengi stance. I advocate no single way to end or ease suffering, but if we can support people while helping them find the means to help themselves I cannot in good conscience advocate withholding aid.

Now, the Pope condemns any practice of birth control while simultaneously urging nations to help out with problems directly related to sustainable populations. I agree that this is irresponsible dogmatism. We should be helping address root causes while giving them support while they correct those problems, not pasting a bandaid over the problem and calling it good.

[Greed and Death]

That doesn't justify not trying to end it. If all we accomplish is to ease the suffering, then it will be worth it.

Do you really ease it ?
Or do you encourage people to remain where there is no work and no food, which would prolong suffering rather then ease it.
You also seem to encourage those same people to have large numbers of children, which will induce future suffering.

That sounds suspiciously like the Ferengi stance. I advocate no single way to end or ease suffering, but if we can support people while helping them find the means to help themselves I cannot in good conscience advocate withholding aid.

Now, the Pope condemns any practice of birth control while simultaneously urging nations to help out with problems directly related to sustainable populations. I agree that this is irresponsible dogmatism. We should be helping address root causes while giving them support while they correct those problems, not pasting a bandaid over the problem and calling it good.

The ferangi tells you not to do it at all.
I say if it brings you joy then do it, but don't presume the right to insist I do it. as it may not bring me joy.

[Hydesland]

Hitler Youth, Class of 1942.

I really, really hope that Bottle was talking about something more substantial than that, because that is ridiculously petty. I have relatives who were in the Hitler youth even though they despised Hitler, and when Benedict was enrolled, he had no choice, he was REQUIRED to join.

[Treznor]

The ferangi tells you not to do it at all.
I say if it brings you joy then do it, but don't presume the right to insist I do it. as it may not bring me joy.

The Pope and I agree on at least one thing, if for different reasons: selfishness is ultimately self-defeating. People who cooperate accomplish far more than those who keep themselves isolated. What's the phrase they used to justify "trickle-down" economics? A rising tide lifts all boats. The catch is that the tide has to rise for the boats most in danger of running aground before it can benefit those in safer waters.

[Hydesland]

I find this to be thought-provoking. I found the quote from Dr. Dawkins to be most interesting: "The only website I could find that claimed to list 'Nobel Prize-winning Christians' came up with six, out of a total of several hundred scientific Nobelists. Of these six, it turned out that four were not Nobel Prize-winners at all; and at least one, to my certain knowledge, is a non-believer who attends church for purely social reasons."

Because not Christian = atheist.

Anyway, being 'educated' may mean you are less likely to be theistic, but that has nothing to do with the fact that theistic people are more stupid or whatever elitist bullshit some people think, it has to do with the fact that the vast majority of the people are brought up in a religious background, and without sufficient education and knowledge of other alternatives to their faith. If everyone was brought up in explicit atheism, the vast majority of uneducated people would be atheist because they would not be aware or would be against other alternatives, but the more educated would be more aware of other options and understand that their parents and society may not know best etc..., and thus in that case there would be more theistic people amongst the educated people.

[Treznor]

I find this to be thought-provoking. I found the quote from Dr. Dawkins to be most interesting: "The only website I could find that claimed to list 'Nobel Prize-winning Christians' came up with six, out of a total of several hundred scientific Nobelists. Of these six, it turned out that four were not Nobel Prize-winners at all; and at least one, to my certain knowledge, is a non-believer who attends church for purely social reasons."

Because not Christian = atheist.

I don't think that's quite what he said, but I digress.

Anyway, being 'educated' may mean you are less likely to be theistic, but that has nothing to do with the fact that theistic people are more stupid or whatever elitist bullshit some people think, it has to do with the fact that the vast majority of the people are brought up in a religious background, and without sufficient education and knowledge of other alternatives to their faith. If everyone was brought up in explicit atheism, the vast majority of uneducated people would be atheist because they would not be aware or would be against other alternatives, but the more educated would be more aware of other options and understand that their parents and society may not know best etc..., and thus in that case there would be more theistic people amongst the educated people.

Sounds to me like this calls for an experiment. Will you join me in a call for increased access to good education around the world and see how it impacts theism, if at all? I'll gladly concede the battle to you if the results demonstrate your assertion.

[Hydesland]

This isn't really anything new. Leo XIII back in the 19th century wrote the famous Rerum Novarum (not to be confused with Rerun Novarum, the encyclical they showed during the summer) which would probably be considered economically leftist, even today. More recently, John Paul II had Centesimus Annus, literally, the 100th year after Rerum Novarum. Benedict has spoken about these things, too, though not in an encyclical.
So I applaud the Pope, but while the actual details may be new, the message is just as standard as opposing abortion. It's just not one trumpeted as much, which isn't surprising.

Indeed, I don't think the Vatican has ever been economically rightist.

[Hydesland]

Sounds to me like this calls for an experiment. Will you join me in a call for increased access to good education around the world and see how it impacts theism, if at all? I'll gladly concede the battle to you if the results demonstrate your assertion.

No, again, I agree that increased education will reduce theism, but not because being theistic is necessarily a 'stupider belief'. But yes, I will also call for increased access to good education, I've always supported this, and will always support it whether everyone is a theist or an atheist.

[Yootopia]

Sounds to me like this calls for an experiment. Will you join me in a call for increased access to good education around the world and see how it impacts theism, if at all? I'll gladly concede the battle to you if the results demonstrate your assertion.

Remember, kids, control experiments are for gays and the Taliban!

The fact that they might get more money if they're educated well impact the proportion of believers. Meeting new partners who personally don't believe in religion at school might impact on the sum total of theists. There is a veritable smörgåsbord of things that make people believe or not believe, and unless you can clone these people, and give them an exactly equal life experience outside of "being educated", I don't know how fair that kind of experiment would be.

[Ifreann]

Tell the pope to stay out of world politics.

The pope is the elected leader of a sovereign nation, isn't he? Isn't the world of politics more his place than any of ours?

[Yootopia]

Tell the pope to stay out of world politics.

The pope is the elected leader of a sovereign nation, isn't he? Isn't the world of politics more his place than any of ours?

Eh as pseudo-intellectuals with nothing better to do and a computer, obviously we should be the arbiters of who matters and who doesn't