Is calling someone African American racist?

[Ravea]

I don't consider it racist, just stupid. Why not just call everyone American, instead of dividing and labelling everyone?

This.

I don't think it's racist, but I know quite a few blacks from Haiti or South America who would rather be called either a member of their respective nation(Haitian American, Ect) or just black.

[Intangelon]

Agreed. A word is always a tool. A person chooses to be a tool.

Sorry, but this is meaningless pablum being paraded as deep thought.

Words have meanings and history. Those features combine with usage to convey specific messages.

So, a word can have racist connotations and tend to have racist meanings.

Not to the speaker who is unaware of them.

Sorry, but it isn't meaningless to suggest that the racist is the one using the word to that effect, not the word itself.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Agreed. A word is always a tool. A person chooses to be a tool.

Sorry, but this is meaningless pablum being paraded as deep thought.

Words have meanings and history. Those features combine with usage to convey specific messages.

So, a word can have racist connotations and tend to have racist meanings.

Not to the speaker who is unaware of them.

Sorry, but it isn't meaningless to suggest that the racist is the one using the word to that effect, not the word itself.

Wait, wait. Are you in the habit of using words when you have no clue as to what they mean?

[Bluth Corporation]

Wait, wait. Are you in the habit of using words when you have no clue as to what they mean?

That's not what was said.

I don't have to know the history of "nigger" to know that it refers to a black person.

[Bottle]

I certainly agree that it is crummy to basically consider white people to be "regular" Americans, and then anybody else has to be a special kind of American (African-American, Latino-American, etc).

But I also think that racism and racial issues still exist and it's stupid to pretend they don't. Being black in America still means that a whole fuckton of things will be different for you than they would if you were white. I don't think progress is best served by closing your eyes and pretending those differences don't exist.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Wait, wait. Are you in the habit of using words when you have no clue as to what they mean?

That's not what was said.

I don't have to know the history of "nigger" to know that it refers to a black person.

And how do you know that? A priori?

[Haraq (Ancient)]

Its not racist and it should be used to refer to recent immigrants to the country in question. A couple of generations back.

Also 'white americans' founded the country and made up the vast majority of the population up to the 1930's so should be considered regular americans.

[Intangelon]

Not to the speaker who is unaware of them.

Sorry, but it isn't meaningless to suggest that the racist is the one using the word to that effect, not the word itself.

Wait, wait. Are you in the habit of using words when you have no clue as to what they mean?

Wait, wait. Are you telling me that nobody ever uses words without knowing what they mean?

See? I can be needlessly dismissive, too. You're better than that, TCT.

You're also better than completely ignoring the second sentence in the two-sentence post you quoted.

A word isn't bad. The context in which a word is employed can be bad.

[Bluth Corporation]

And how do you know that? A priori?

I walk into the room, having no previous exposure to the word "nigger."

I hear people using it, and I ask, "What's a 'nigger'?"

They say, "A nigger is a black person."

I say, "Oh, ok. Thanks!"

I now know what it means, but have no knowledge of its history.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Not to the speaker who is unaware of them.

Sorry, but it isn't meaningless to suggest that the racist is the one using the word to that effect, not the word itself.

Wait, wait. Are you in the habit of using words when you have no clue as to what they mean?

Wait, wait. Are you telling me that nobody ever uses words without knowing what they mean?

See? I can be needlessly dismissive, too. You're better than that, TCT.

You're also better than completely ignoring the second sentence in the two-sentence post you quoted.

A word isn't bad. The context in which a word is employed can be bad.

Um. No, people don't usually use words when they have no clue as to what they mean. At the very least they've heard the word before. Language doesnt' pop into our heads from nowhere.

And the context of some words are themselves bad. Can they be used in other ways? Of course. But the usually connotation of "nigger" is neither good nor neutral.

[Galloism]

A word isn't bad. The context in which a word is employed can be bad.

True, and the culture in which it's used. For instance, a friend of mine moved to FL from Jamaica. He was surprised at how much the word "nigger" carries a bad connotation over here, because it's pretty much neutral down there. He always told me the standard greeting down there was "What's up, nigger?" (although he pronounced it nig-ah) The culture in which your in can also determine whether a word is offensive or not.

[Intangelon]

And how do you know that? A priori?

I walk into the room, having no previous exposure to the word "nigger."

I hear people using it, and I ask, "What's a 'nigger'?"

They say, "A nigger is a black person."

I say, "Oh, ok. Thanks!"

I now know what it means, but have no knowledge of its history.

And thus, the racist context described here is propagated. I'm almost certain that, when the word was current among whites, nobody who ever used the word derogatorily ever said to the person asking what it meant, "a nigger is a black person, but some folks find that offensive". In fact, I'm only slightly less sure that statement is ever uttered now amongst whites for whom the word is still current.

[The Cat-Tribe]

And how do you know that? A priori?

I walk into the room, having no previous exposure to the word "nigger."

I hear people using it, and I ask, "What's a 'nigger'?"

They say, "A nigger is a black person."

I say, "Oh, ok. Thanks!"

I now know what it means, but have no knowledge of its history.

Is this how most people learn the word "nigger" or is this a silly hypothetical you made up in a desperate attempt to save face?

Please describe, in your scenario, how you knew what a "black person" was and how "nigger" was used in an innocence context.

[Intangelon]

Um. No, people don't usually use words when they have no clue as to what they mean. At the very least they've heard the word before. Language doesnt' pop into our heads from nowhere.

Hang on -- are you saying that having heard the word before is the same as understanding its contextual possibilities?

People use words all the damn time without knowing what they really mean. It is possible I hear more of that then average, given that I'm a teacher, but still.

And the context of some words are themselves bad. Can they be used in other ways? Of course. But the usually connotation of "nigger" is neither good nor neutral.

Connotation. Context. You've just made my point for me -- thank you.

Also, "nigger" can be used as a term of endearment among either the Black community, or those who emulate it: "Hey, my nigga!" is a kind of black-urban "salve, amicus" -- "greetings, friend".

[The Cat-Tribe]

Um. No, people don't usually use words when they have no clue as to what they mean. At the very least they've heard the word before. Language doesnt' pop into our heads from nowhere.

Hang on -- are you saying that having heard the word before is the same as understanding its contextual possibilities?

People use words all the damn time without knowing what they really mean. It is possible I hear more of that then average, given that I'm a teacher, but still.

And the context of some words are themselves bad. Can they be used in other ways? Of course. But the usually connotation of "nigger" is neither good nor neutral.

Connotation. Context. You've just made my point for me -- thank you.

Also, "nigger" can be used as a term of endearment among either the Black community, or those who emulate it: "Hey, my nigga!" is a kind of black-urban "salve, amicus" -- "greetings, friend".

This is silly. Are you denying that "nigger" generally has a derogatory meaning? The Oxford English Dictionary is wrong about that?

[Ifreann]

<CENSORED>=SO RACIST I WILL CHOP YOUR HEAD OFF IF YOU SAY IT!!!

No, it's not. It's just a word.

An attitude is racist. A word is not. Using a word does not necessarily imply a certain attitude.

Of course not. But using words that have historically been racial slurs in certain contexts does imply a racist attitude.

[Bluth Corporation]

Is this how most people learn the word "nigger" or is this a silly hypothetical you made up in a desperate attempt to save face?

Neither. It's basically a general form of what I had in mind all along, to explain how knowing the meaning of a word does not imply knowing its history.

Please describe, in your scenario, how you knew what a "black person" was

I knew what "jumping out of a window" was long before I ever heard of the word "defenestration."

and how "nigger" was used in an innocence context.

It doesn't have to be used in an innocent context.

I can talk about my "fucking worthless piece of shit trombone," and yet one wouldn't necessarily be expected to think that "trombone" itself is a pejorative term.

Similarly, I can overhear someone talking about a "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" without automatically assuming that "nigger" is itself a pejorative term, if I'm not already familiar with it.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Similarly, I can overhear someone talking about a "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" without automatically assuming that "nigger" is itself a pejorative term, if I'm not already familiar with it.

I rest my case. One would clearly conclude from the phrase "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" that "nigger" was a neutral or even praising term for black people.

[The Crucifix Family]

In any case gentlemen, it is common knowledge in the west what nigger means, and it carries negative connotations amongst Blacks because of its meaning and history: it is a distortion of the word Negro (which means black) used by whites for years and is a symbol of how whites try to impose upon blacks a sense of inferiority. That fact that some use it in ignorance does not change this fact. The fact that blacks use it now, is, to me, a sign of the sad state of black society today.

[Bluth Corporation]

Similarly, I can overhear someone talking about a "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" without automatically assuming that "nigger" is itself a pejorative term, if I'm not already familiar with it.

I rest my case. One would clearly conclude from the phrase "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" that "nigger" was a neutral or even praising term for black people.

Did you not see the other example I gave?

It's clearly nonsensical to assume that a word must necessarily be pejorative in and of itself just because it's used in an unfavorable context.

[New Genoa]

In any case gentlemen, it is common knowledge in the west what nigger means, and it carries negative connotations amongst Blacks because of its meaning and history: it is a distortion of the word Negro (which means black) used by whites for years and is a symbol of how whites try to impose upon blacks a sense of inferiority. That fact that some use it in ignorance does not change this fact. The fact that blacks use it now, is, to me, a sign of the sad state of black society today.

Blacks have used the word for a while now. It's taking the word back for themselves so to speak.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Similarly, I can overhear someone talking about a "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" without automatically assuming that "nigger" is itself a pejorative term, if I'm not already familiar with it.

I rest my case. One would clearly conclude from the phrase "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger" that "nigger" was a neutral or even praising term for black people.

Did you not see the other example I gave?

It's clearly nonsensical to assume that a word must necessarily be pejorative in and of itself just because it's used in an unfavorable context.

Again, in the ridiculous imaginary scenario where you had never heard the term "nigger" and were unaware there were prejorative names for black people, you'd still have to be pretty fucking clueless to call a black person "nigger" after hearing the word in the context of "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger."

Pardon me if I am mistaken in assuming you have more intelligence than that.

Regardless, as The Crucifix Family emphasized, the word has commonly known meanings. You can't escape that.

[Bluth Corporation]

Again, in the ridiculous imaginary scenario where you had never heard the term "nigger" and were unaware there were prejorative names for black people, you'd still have to be pretty fucking clueless to call a black person "nigger" after hearing the word in the context of "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger."

I provided an example to illustrate why the general principle behind your argument is false, which you have not actually addressed.

Regardless, as The Crucifix Family emphasized, the word has commonly known meanings. You can't escape that.

If you're unaware of those, you're not culpable.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Again, in the ridiculous imaginary scenario where you had never heard the term "nigger" and were unaware there were prejorative names for black people, you'd still have to be pretty fucking clueless to call a black person "nigger" after hearing the word in the context of "fucking worthless piece of shit nigger."

I provided an example to illustrate why the general principle behind your argument is false, which you have not actually addressed.

Regardless, as The Crucifix Family emphasized, the word has commonly known meanings. You can't escape that.

If you're unaware of those, you're not culpable.

Um. Just because (in bizarre theory) one can be unaware of a word's meaning, doesn't make that word meaningless.

But nice try.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Black Americans is worse!

Why?

All black Americans are, indeed, black.

Not all black Americans are of African descent.

Fewer still have been to or were born in Africa.

Back on topic ....

1. Black Americans do not all have the same skin tone.

2. Some non-blacks have darker skin than some blacks.

3. I don't think I've ever met an African-American whose skin was literally black in color. Very, very dark brown. But black? At the very least it is rare.