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Music Industry Lagging... Again

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PartyPeoples
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Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby PartyPeoples » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:04 am

Once again the Music Industry is rearing one of it's incredibly ugly heads and headbutting itself into the public domain, this time represented by the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP). This non-profit organisation seeks to claim fees when public performances of copyright music are played out, passing the collected fees on as royalties to their respective members.

The BBC wrote:Maggie Shiels | 10:15 AM, Monday, 6 July 2009

Ringtones - sometimes they are funny, sometimes entertaining, sometimes rude and, yes, sometimes they are just plain annoying.

Ringtones are a multi-billion dollar industry and everyone from Madonna to Charlie Parker and from Wagner to Wang Chung is available for download.

Well now a court in New York is being asked to decide if ringtones can be classed as a public performance and if so the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, aka ASCAP, wants a piece of the action.

ASCAP has filed a suit in a Manhattan court against the country's two largest wireless carriers AT&T and Verizon. The organisation is a non-profit that collects fees for public performances of music. It then pays royalties to its 350,000 songwriting and publishing members.

Back in the 1990's ASCAP garnered unflattering headlines for suing the Girl Scouts over publicly performing camp songs like "Happy Birthday" and "Puff the Magic Dragon."

Now it is claiming that a ringtone that is played on a cellphone breaches copyright law.

In its brief ASCAP explains when a ringtone becomes a public performance:

"It need only be 'capable' of being performed to the public; whether the ringtone is set to play, and indeed whether anyone hears it, is of no moment."
The brief later states that:

"Whether the device is on or off, the volume is turned down, or the phone is placed on vibrate, AT&T has caused a public performance."
ASCAP has brought a similar action against Verizon but says it won't go after individuals in this fight.

Operators that sell ringtones already pay royalties to songwriters for use of their material.

So it's the music industry versus technology again over copyright.

Naturally enough there are a few groups who have asked the court to throw the whole thing out on its ear.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital rights group, says:

"These wrongheaded legal claims cast a shadow over innovators who are building gadgets that help consumers get the most from their copyright privileges."
Public Knowledge and the Centre for Democracy and Technology argue that copyright law exempts performances that are conducted without a commercial purpose.

ASCAP disagrees.

All three groups have said in their amicus brief to the court that they reject as "bogus copyright claims...that could raise costs for consumers, jeopardise consumer rights, and curtail new technological innovation."

EFF's senior intellectual property attorney Fred von Lohman says:

"Are the millions of people who have bought ringtones breaking the law if they forget to silence their phones in a restaurant? Under this reasoning from ASCAP, it would be a copyright violation for you to play your car radio with the window down!"
Fines for copyright infringement are steep. Up to $150,000 (£92,600) per violation.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2 ... fight.html


Why does the Music Industry persist so much to the point where they damage themselves so irrevocably and what's their obsession with playing victim all the time? Are they really losing profits or having their copyrights infringed upon and in a broader picture, why do they fail so badly at adapting to a changed market?..
:?

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Teleq
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Teleq » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:15 am

:palm:

So...if they give in to this (once again) ridiculous statement, we're going to have to compose our own ringtones or pay the price?

How many times do they want to be paid for the same freakin' copyright?

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EvilDarkMagicians
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:18 am

:palm:

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Urghu
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Urghu » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:21 am

Is anyone surprised? The music industry is trying to find new ways to get money. They claim that they are loosing money but still they have bigger and bigger earnings every year...strange mathematics if you ask me.

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PartyPeoples
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby PartyPeoples » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:21 am

Teleq wrote::palm:

So...if they give in to this (once again) ridiculous statement, we're going to have to compose our own ringtones or pay the price?

How many times do they want to be paid for the same freakin' copyright?


Indeed, it is a silly argument but the Music Industry keeps peddling this same old same old as justification for being daft and possibly greedy too (being as though the copyright to use those tunes has already been legally purchased).

I wonder how they'd feel if I began singing out popular songs in the middle of my City Centre...
:eyebrow:

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No Names Left Damn It
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby No Names Left Damn It » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:22 am

Do they really need more money?
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PartyPeoples
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby PartyPeoples » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:24 am

No Names Left Damn It wrote:Do they really need more money?


I don't think the members of this club do to be honest - although the organisation itself is a non-profit so they're not in it for the money... obviously not...
:roll:

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Urghu
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Urghu » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:28 am

PartyPeoples wrote:
No Names Left Damn It wrote:Do they really need more money?


I don't think the members of this club do to be honest - although the organisation itself is a non-profit so they're not in it for the money... obviously not...
:roll:


Yeah, almost the same way Micro$oft is a non-profit organization, they use all the money for investments and giving the money to the owners. :)

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No Names Left Damn It
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby No Names Left Damn It » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 am

I better change my flag.
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Cannot think of a name
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:38 am

ASCAP isn't the recording industry and in fact on occasion represents composers in negotiations with the recording industry. While this particular suite, going only from the information in the article, seems without merit (but again, going on nothing but the article and my near nothing understanding of how these lawsuits work), you could at least sort out your mean ol' bogeymen who keep daring to ask you to compensate them for the work they did and you enjoy.
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Heinleinites
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Heinleinites » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:48 am

Hey, if it means that I don't have to hear the same shitty rap song(yeah, I know that's redundant)a hundred times a day from different cell phones, I'm all for it.
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PartyPeoples
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby PartyPeoples » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:53 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:ASCAP isn't the recording industry and in fact on occasion represents composers in negotiations with the recording industry. While this particular suite, going only from the information in the article, seems without merit (but again, going on nothing but the article and my near nothing understanding of how these lawsuits work), you could at least sort out your mean ol' bogeymen who keep daring to ask you to compensate them for the work they did and you enjoy.


I'm all for compensating workers for their work... I'm not all for generally ripping people off or claiming copyright infringement for "public performances" - my argument is that ASCAP is one of the forces driving the Music Industry (big 'ole bogeyman) and actions like this can only damage the reputation of the members it represents/tries to protect.

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:05 am

I don't know how much the music record labels want to own but this is overkill.

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Greed and Death
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:19 am

Teleq wrote::palm:

So...if they give in to this (once again) ridiculous statement, we're going to have to compose our own ringtones or pay the price?

How many times do they want to be paid for the same freakin' copyright?

Your court date, guilty verdict and 80,000 dollar per song fine is already in the mail.
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Urghu
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Urghu » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:49 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:ASCAP isn't the recording industry and in fact on occasion represents composers in negotiations with the recording industry. While this particular suite, going only from the information in the article, seems without merit (but again, going on nothing but the article and my near nothing understanding of how these lawsuits work), you could at least sort out your mean ol' bogeymen who keep daring to ask you to compensate them for the work they did and you enjoy.


Although not as bad as some of the record companies, I have lost the respect for the organizations that represent the artist as well by now.

Here in Sweden the organization that represents artist (STIM) want companies to pay for that their workers can listen to radio during work, despite the fact that the radio broadcasters already pay fees to STIM for the right to broadcast the music.

We also pay a fee for every empty CD, DVD or hard drive that we buy (the fee is dependent on the size), even if we use to store photos etc., since they may be used for copying music, films etc illegal. And the bigger you are as an artist the more money you get from all the fees since STIM hand out the money dependent on how much records you sell. So they get compensated even if I don't buy or enyoy their records.

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Risottia
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Risottia » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:06 am

PartyPeoples wrote:Well now a court in New York is being asked to decide if ringtones can be classed as a public performance and if so the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, aka ASCAP, wants a piece of the action.


Well, I'm quite sure that here in Italy the SIAE (italian equivalent of ASCAP) gets a share from ringtones, because they are considered as:
1.trade of copyright-protected music
2.use of copyright-protected brands and names in the advertising

Anyway, who gives a fuck? My ringtone is just the recording of an old-styled telephone ringbell.
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Risottia
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Risottia » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:10 am

Urghu wrote:We also pay a fee for every empty CD, DVD or hard drive that we buy (the fee is dependent on the size), even if we use to store photos etc., since they may be used for copying music, films etc illegally.

Same here in Italy - I fear it must be some European directive.
Anyway, I think that this gives us the RIGHT to copy whatever we can: after all, we already paid a forfeited price for copying on the disks we bought (even if we meant to save OUR own intellectual property on it) ... so that's what we're going to do.
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Obvious Pseudonym
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Obvious Pseudonym » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:37 am

The music industry and copy writed music as a whole need to die.

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Dread Lady Nathicana
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:41 am

What next? If we play our stereos loud enough for others to hear, are we going to get sued for not paying for a public performance? Jebus, these people need to get a freaking grip - preferably NOT more firmly on our dwindling pocketbooks.

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The Cat-Tribe
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:04 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:ASCAP isn't the recording industry and in fact on occasion represents composers in negotiations with the recording industry. While this particular suite, going only from the information in the article, seems without merit (but again, going on nothing but the article and my near nothing understanding of how these lawsuits work), you could at least sort out your mean ol' bogeymen who keep daring to ask you to compensate them for the work they did and you enjoy.


Shhh! Don't confuse the ranters!! It all comes back to THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, which is run by the Illuminati which is run by lesbian jewish dentists.
I quit (again).
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The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
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Obvious Pseudonym
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Obvious Pseudonym » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:10 pm

The music industry is any entity that attempts to make a profit off of music.

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The Cat-Tribe
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:15 pm

Obvious Pseudonym wrote:The music industry is any entity that attempts to make a profit off of music.


I knew that busker I saw the other day was an evil fucker!!
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

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Obvious Pseudonym
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Re: Music Industry Lagging... Again

Postby Obvious Pseudonym » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:16 pm

So did you stab him?


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