To what degree is Medvedev Putin's (sock) puppet?

[Belschaft]

To be honest I mainly just wanted to post the pic. But in all seriousness ( ) how much power do you guys think Medvedev actually has, considering that Obama has booked appointments with both him and Putin to discuss the whole Iran/Missile Shield/Georgia thing. Personally I figure not much, but I could be wrong. He could actually be the supreme authority in Russia, and makes all the big decisions.

[Brogavia]

100%. He's only there to get around that silly constution that says no two consecutive presidental terms. He was a major supporter of an amendment that extented the presidental term by 2 years, which takes effect in 2012. This means that when Medvedev's term is up, Putin will run and win in a land slide, and by there until, if he gets two terms.

[United Russian State]

It dosent look that way. Putin and Medvedev agree on most things but also disagree on a few key issues.

But Putin should be fully in charge. He is the only man that is fit to be Russia's leader. If you lived in Russia in the 1990s you could see where I am comming from. He has done more good than any one. Fixed much of the trouble Yeltsin cuased. He also made major reforms in the military. We now actully get paid something. He also made Russia a superpower again.

He will go down as one of the greatest Russian leaders.

[Brogavia]

It dosent look that way. Putin and Medvedev agree on most things but also disagree on a few key issues.

Like what?

[United Russian State]

It dosent look that way. Putin and Medvedev agree on most things but also disagree on a few key issues.

Like what?

It dosent look like Medvedev is just a puppet and he isn't. Putin said it himself deb is the president of Russia and has the final say on what goes on.

[Belschaft]

He also made Russia a superpower again.

Not really. The only true superpower is the USA since the collapse of the USSR. We're looking at several possbile candidates for the title, including the EU (yay!), China, Brazil, India and a resurgent Russia/CIS. But currently calling Russia a superpower is wrong, considerign that large parts of it's military and nuclear deterent are out of date cold war era tech, and their usefullness in a modern war doubtfull. Putin's kicked in some modernisation reforms wich should fix that within 10-15 years time, but whether they can be maintained is questionable.

[Belschaft]

It dosent look that way. Putin and Medvedev agree on most things but also disagree on a few key issues.

Like what?

It dosent look like Medvedev is just a puppet and he isn't. Putin said it himself deb is the president of Russia and has the final say on what goes on.

That means nothing. Putin can say whatever he wants, but it doesn't make it true. I've been to Russia (last febuary, just before the election methinks) and everyone I talked to felt that Putin would still be running things as PM.

[Brogavia]

It dosent look that way. Putin and Medvedev agree on most things but also disagree on a few key issues.

Like what?

It dosent look like Medvedev is just a puppet and he isn't. Putin said it himself deb is the president of Russia and has the final say on what goes on.

So he's not Putin's puppet, because Putin says he isn't....

[United Russian State]

He also made Russia a superpower again.

Not really. The only true superpower is the USA since the collapse of the USSR. We're looking at several possbile candidates for the title, including the EU (yay!), China, Brazil, India and a resurgent Russia/CIS. But currently calling Russia a superpower is wrong, considerign that large parts of it's military and nuclear deterent are out of date cold war era tech, and their usefullness in a modern war doubtfull. Putin's kicked in some modernisation reforms wich should fix that within 10-15 years time, but whether they can be maintained is questionable.

No. Russia is a superpower again. We have the most advance techonogly, tied with USA. They have advantages over us but we have advantages over them. Our military equiment is far more realibile than Amercain. Our troops are highly trained and some of the most experince. EU and CIS cannot be superpowers. They are not military alliances like NATO or SCO are. As for China most of their stuff comes from Russia or are copies of what we already had.If you would wish to depate this more in detail you can make a topic about it or telegram me.

[Brogavia]

No. Russia is a superpower again. We have the most advance techonogly, tied with USA. They have advantages over us but we have advantages over them. Our military equiment is far more realibile than Amercain. Our troops are highly trained and some of the most experince. EU and CIS cannot be superpowers. They are not military alliances like NATO or SCO are. As for China most of their stuff comes from Russia or are copies of what we already had.If you would wish to depate this more in detail you can make a topic about it or telegram me.

No, you don't. The Russian millitary is corrupt, poorly trained, and has very poor morale. Chechyna proved this. The opening attacks were slaughtered. You have good small arms. Most of your tanks are very, very old T-54/55s and T-62s. Your T-72s are death traps. During the Cold War, the crews feared them more than we did. The gunners would regularly lose arms to the autoloader.

And don't try and use the recent conflict with Georgia to back your claims up. It was conducted almost completely by Spetnaz on the ground, and not one pilot was belong the rank of Colonel.

[Conserative Morality]

No. Russia is a superpower again. We have the most advance techonogly, tied with USA. They have advantages over us but we have advantages over them. Our military equiment is far more realibile than Amercain. Our troops are highly trained and some of the most experince. EU and CIS cannot be superpowers. They are not military alliances like NATO or SCO are. As for China most of their stuff comes from Russia or are copies of what we already had.If you would wish to depate this more in detail you can make a topic about it or telegram me.

...

I'll need a source for the reliability and experience parts.

[United Russian State]

That means nothing. Putin can say whatever he wants, but it doesn't make it true. I've been to Russia (last febuary, just before the election methinks) and everyone I talked to felt that Putin would still be running things as PM.

They were held in March.

The President is the leader with final say, not the Prime Minister. If he disagrees with Putin he can go ahead and do what he wants, to a certiam point. He already has. He is much differnet in the way he deals with the US and Russian courts.

If he is running all the shots and Medvedev is just a puppet like you say I am glad. Putin has Russia's best intreast in mind. He has done more than anyone eles for the good of Russia. Life is far better because of him.

[United Russian State]

No, you don't. The Russian millitary is corrupt, poorly trained, and has very poor morale. Chechyna
proved this. The opening attacks were slaughtered. You have good small arms. Most of your tanks are very, very old T-54/55s and T-62s. Your T-72s are death traps. During the Cold War, the crews feared them more than we did. The gunners would regularly lose arms to the autoloader.

And don't try and use the recent conflict with Georgia to back your claims up. It was conducted almost completely by Spetnaz on the ground, and not one pilot was belong the rank of Colonel.

Which Chechyna war are we talking about? The one that was completly mishandled by Yeltsin? Both happened before military reforms were going on or had enough time to take place.
During the cold war...do you think tanks are updated and there are not different models of these tanks? Our T-80s and 90s beat anything NATO has.

Don't even fucking start on how we are poorly trained. We are highly trained and are ready for combat ready and do the job damn good. You act like you are an expert on our military. Rightч I forgot that going on random sites looking up stuff to prove your point makes you an expert on Russian troops and weapons.

Georgia was suppiled with NATO weapons and they did shit against us. Many are trained by NATO advisors. They did shit in combat.

Sell as many weapons as you want to them. Try to get more Russians and Ossetians killed. We will always win. I dare Georgia to attack us again. Next time we will finsh them off for good and take
out Saakashvilli.

NATO wants world war 3? Bring it on. Russia always wins. All who have tried to invade us have failed, NATO will fail like them.

Don't forget if you mess with us you mess with all the nations in SCO.

[Chernobyl-Pripyat]

No, you don't. The Russian millitary is corrupt, poorly trained, and has very poor morale. Chechyna proved this. The opening attacks were slaughtered. You have good small arms. Most of your tanks are very, very old T-54/55s and T-62s. Your T-72s are death traps. During the Cold War, the crews feared them more than we did. The gunners would regularly lose arms to the autoloader.

And don't try and use the recent conflict with Georgia to back your claims up. It was conducted almost completely by Spetnaz on the ground, and not one pilot was belong the rank of Colonel.

Do you have any sources for any of this?

No, you don't. The Russian millitary is corrupt, poorly trained, and has very poor morale. Chechyna proved this. The opening attacks were slaughtered

Our training is good enough, and moral during the first Chechen war was pretty bad since most of the guys fighting there didn't even know what they were supposed to do. I assume you're talking that war, because there were less casualties in the second war then your campaign in Iraq.

Most of your tanks are very, very old T-54/55s and T-62s. Your T-72s are death traps. During the Cold War, the crews feared them more than we did. The gunners would regularly lose arms to the autoloader.

T-55's and T-62's are fore reserve groups, most of which are in the middle of nowhere and arming them with T-80's would be pointless The bulk of our tanks in service are T-72. The whole losing an arm thing is bullshit, since the only way that can happen is if you deliberately put your arm in the breech while it's reloading.

And don't try and use the recent conflict with Georgia to back your claims up. It was conducted almost completely by Spetnaz on the ground, and not one pilot was belong the rank of Colonel.

Wow. This, I'm especially going to need sources for. Vostok and Zapad aren't 'spetsnaz', neither are the VDV. 95% of the guys fighting there were your regular infantry.

[Belschaft]

Our T-80s and 90s beat anything NATO has.

No they can't. Their better than previous models, but they can't match the M1A2, Challanger mark 2 or Leopard 2 in combat. The T-90 might stand a chance, but the majority of Russian tanks are still the older T-80, wich doesn't stand a chance in prolonged engagement.

Don't even fucking start on how we are poorly trained.

While RF military training is better than he implied, it isn't the same quality as that of NATO members. Bearing in mind that numbers are on NATO's side, your at a signifgant disadvantage before even taking into account quality of frontline troops. SPETNAZ however are, to the best of my knowledge, trained to an excelent standard, but lack sufficent numbers to have sufficent impact on the battlefield.

Georgia was suppiled with NATO weapons and they did shit against us. Many are trained by NATO advisors. They did shit in combat.

Wrong. The majority of Georigan soldeirs were equiped with redundant soviet equipment, and few had received NATO training. Those who had where still not trained to anything aproaching western, or Russian, standards.

Sell as many weapons as you want to them. Try to get more Russians and Ossetians killed. We will always win. I dare Georgia to attack us again. Next time we will finsh them off for good and take
out Saakashvilli.

Nationalist bilge, and irelevant to the question at hand. Plus Russia was the aggresor under international law.

NATO wants world war 3? Bring it on. Russia always wins. All who have tried to invade us have failed, NATO will fail like them.

No ones proposing world war three. Though in it's event NATO has the uperhand, but of course thats when MAD comes into play.

Don't forget if you mess with us you mess with all the nations in SCO.

Who are all far weaker than Russia, a hell of a lot weaker than NATO, and unlikely to come to your aid in that eventuality.

[United Russian State]

Russia was the aggressor? Georgia attacked South Ossetia killing Oesstians + Russian cizitens and Russian peacekeepers. A nation has the right to protect it'self when it's people are being killed under international law. OSCE officals agreed. NATO is not international law.

By supporting Georgia NATO is suggesting it wants war. They knew Georgia was the agressor and still supports Georgia. America does sell weapons to Georgia, and provides training for troops. Amercia gives Georgia millions in adie. Bush even stated his country would help them rebuild their military.

The SCO out numbers NATO and contruls over 25% of the earth. China is apart of SCO. I hardly would call China weak. Most of their troops are poorly trained and armed that dosent mean their are not parts that are well trained and armed. Besides we can arm them.

Soviet forces were conisdered poorly armed but in the end they defeated Nazi-Germany. At the end of the war Soviets were well armed and well trained. Don't underesimate Russia. They made that mistake.

The same can be said with NATO not all comming to USA aide. I don't see all of them comming to the support of America when many in the nations don't even like them.

[Belschaft]

Russia was the aggressor? Georgia attacked South Ossetia killing Oesstians + Russian cizitens and Russian peacekeepers. A nation has the right to protect it'self when it's people are being killed under international law. OSCE officals agreed. NATO is not international law.

Georgia and it's claims to South Ossetia and Abkahanzia (I tihnk thats how it's spelt) are recognised by the UN. SO & A are technicly break away regions of Georgia, suported by Russia. Russian 'peacekeeprs' had as muych right to be there as NATO soldiers do in Moscow - Ie, none. Plus I don't renember seeing pictures of Georgian tanks massed to invade Moscow, do you? Cos I damn well sure saw pictures of them massing outside Tsibli. Same as I don't remember Georgian planes bombing the Russian capital, or Georgian APC's in the streets of Russian towns. It's allmost as if all the figting happened in Georgia.

By supporting Georgia NATO is suggesting it wants war. They knew Georgia was the agressor and still supports Georgia. America does sell weapons to Georgia, and provides training for troops. Amercia gives Georgia millions in adie. Bush even stated his country would help them rebuild their military.

And does any of that show that NATO/America wants a war with Russia? That's like claiming that becasue Russia sells Iran weapons and nuclear technology it wans a war. And that would be ridiculous.

The SCO out numbers NATO and contruls over 25% of the earth. China is apart of SCO. I hardly would call China weak. Most of their troops are poorly trained and armed that dosent mean their are not parts that are well trained and armed. Besides we can arm them.

Bearing in mind 75% of the earth is water I think not. China is a unique case. While it posseses a massive lanbd army, it lacks the capacity to deploy it outside it;s national borders. What's it going to do, walk to Europe? Personally I find the idea that the tow alliances can be compared laughable, due to the fact that the SCO has never actually come to a member states aid. NATO has, every single time. Your puttign far too much faith in the Chinese, who would have notihng to gain and everything to lose from this scienario.

Soviet forces were conisdered poorly armed but in the end they defeated Nazi-Germany. At the end of the war Soviets were well armed and well trained. Don't underesimate Russia. They made that mistake.

They also outnumbered the Germans by up to 20:1. Currently the US alone fields twice as much manpower in it's standing army, with the combined NATO forces outnumberign anytrhing the RF could call on at least in the short term.

The same can be said with NATO not all comming to USA aide. I don't see all of them comming to the support of America when many in the nations don't even like them.

NATO, as I have said allready, has consitently fullfilled the collective security elements of the treaty. In a defensive war they would certainly do so, offensive perhaps not. However deffensive seems more likely.

[Georgetpwn]

To be honest I mainly just wanted to post the pic. But in all seriousness ( ) how much power do you guys think Medvedev actually has, considering that Obama has booked appointments with both him and Putin to discuss the whole Iran/Missile Shield/Georgia thing. Personally I figure not much, but I could be wrong. He could actually be the supreme authority in Russia, and makes all the big decisions.

to me, Putin is the head of the recently returned, but not revealed, Soviet Union while Medvedev is just a show puppet.
Putin, in reality, runs Russia while Medvedev makes it look like Putin's not really in charge.

[L3 Communications]

To be honest I mainly just wanted to post the pic. But in all seriousness ( ) how much power do you guys think Medvedev actually has, considering that Obama has booked appointments with both him and Putin to discuss the whole Iran/Missile Shield/Georgia thing. Personally I figure not much, but I could be wrong. He could actually be the supreme authority in Russia, and makes all the big decisions.

to me, Putin is the head of the recently returned, but not revealed, Soviet Union while Medvedev is just a show puppet.
Putin, in reality, runs Russia while Medvedev makes it look like Putin's not really in charge.

That reminded me of the Simpsons episode where the USSR comes back.

[Island sodor]

I agree that Putin likes to control Medveve. Putin has lots of issues and needs to grow up and get a life!!!!!!!!!

[Georgetpwn]

Putin wanted to invade Georgia because he supports the destruction of democracy in the world and hopes for the resurgence of the USSR.

damnit, 2nd Cold War, here we come!

[United Russian State]

So you would have us to stand by and watch our people get killed and do nothing? South Ossetia and Russian peacekeepers didn't provoke Georgian forces. The UN would disagree with you that Russian peacekeepers were in violation of any UN law, they allowedd it.

You would allow Georgia to just get away with killing Russian troops and citzins? Killed in cold blood. Who cares though? Their only Russians! That is what you are saying. Well they do matter and our govement is not going stand by and do nothing while are people are getting killed. We are no so cold hearted like the west. We care about our people and will defend ourselves. We will protect ourselves from NATO puupet agreesion.

NATO proved it only helps those who will become their puupets. Kosovo proved this.

This is why the world hates Amercia. They use logic that only Amercain lives matter, no other lives matter.

[Chernobyl-Pripyat]

Putin wanted to invade Georgia because he supports the destruction of democracy in the world and hopes for the resurgence of the USSR.

damnit, 2nd Cold War, here we come!

[Georgetpwn]

South Ossetia and Abkhazia are NOT recognized by the UN and 90ish% of the world.
they are provinces of Georgia and Georgia was trying to reclaim those rebel areas when Russia came in to rape Georgia for interfering in their plans to undermine the legit government of Georgia with those 2 rebel provinces.

Georgia was in its own rights to reclaim those 2 areas. Russia does it to Chechnya all the time and YOU don't give a damn about it. what has the russia state propaganda been telling you?

If Georgia can't maintain its own territories without being raped by Russia, then it will fall and the Soviet Union will come back under Putin.

if Georgia and Ukraine want to join NATO, let them. don't threaten to nuke them for doing so!

[United Russian State]

Putin wanted to invade Georgia because he supports the destruction of democracy in the world and hopes for the resurgence of the USSR.

damnit, 2nd Cold War, here we come!

if this was ture Russia wouldn't have demoracyч

It wasn't an invasion. Georgia was the aggressor and we didn't even get rid of their goverment.

I do agreed with a new cold war though. NATO started the first one and they are bent on another one.