Why do people still think Columbus discovered America?

[The Zoogie People]

If I'm not wrong, it's widely regarded that the '1421' author is sort of full of crap. Tries to make a name for himself by saying China discovered and settled America, then followed that up with a sequel claiming China ignited the Renaissance in Italy or something like that...

Now the Chinese did have impressive fleets then, but the claims remain very dubious. That might be me being friendly, as it's been called "revisionist history" and "sheer fiction" as well. I hear he's working on a third book: 1521, the year a Chinese rocketship landed on the moon.

What does "discovering America" mean? It's hardly a land that needed to be discovered, with as many people already on it at the time of the 'discovery.' But didn't Columbus really ignite the Western European interest in the Americas? He is viewed as a 'starting' point for what followed in this way, and I think that's very fair.

[The Zoogie People]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

[Tungookska]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

how is notice sarcasm?

[Farnhamia]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

how is notice sarcasm?

Huh?

[Vetalia]

Because he's the one who ultimately matters from a historical perspective. Being the first to discover something means jack shit unless your discovery ends up having an impact; all the previous potential discoverers of the Americas left little or no trace of their arrival and had no lasting impact on the continents' development. They may have discovered them initially, but never transmitted that knowledge to others or established a lasting presence or contact with the continents, so they effectively lost them again and don't deserve credit beyond a historical footnote. People pretty much forgot the existence of the Americas altogether between the Viking voyages and Columbus' day, as evidenced by the very fact he was tasked with sailing west to find a new route to Eastern Asia; had they remembered the existence of the continent, they wouldn't have assumed it was open water.

Columbus, on the other hand, was the catalyst for European colonization of the continents that has shaped their entire historical development from 1492 to the present day...that's why he deserves the most credit for discovering the continent.

[Nord schandliche]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

how is notice sarcasm?

Sarcasm is hard to spot on the interwebs. The text based format of these forums makes sarcasm hard to detect. That, and the fact that some people make stupid off the wall comments like the one you made and mean them. Makes it hard to spot when someone is only pretending to be a nutcase anti-american.

[Tungookska]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

how is notice sarcasm?

Sarcasm is hard to spot on the interwebs. The text based format of these forums makes sarcasm hard to detect. That, and the fact that some people make stupid off the wall comments like the one you made and mean them. Makes it hard to spot when someone is only pretending to be a nutcase anti-american.

so most users on here lack the skills to spot blatantly made up statistics and sarcasm?

[Nord schandliche]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

how is notice sarcasm?

Sarcasm is hard to spot on the interwebs. The text based format of these forums makes sarcasm hard to detect. That, and the fact that some people make stupid off the wall comments like the one you made and mean them. Makes it hard to spot when someone is only pretending to be a nutcase anti-american.

so most users on here lack the skills to spot blatantly made up statistics and sarcasm?

No, but 6/8's can't

[Vetalia]

so most users on here lack the skills to spot blatantly made up statistics and sarcasm?

No, there really have been people that post things that stupid, except the difference is that they actually believe them.

[Tungookska]

so most users on here lack the skills to spot blatantly made up statistics and sarcasm?

No, there really have been people that post things that stupid, except the difference is that they actually believe them.

so users here are so stupid they are unable to spot stupid things?

maybe i should watch what i say then

[SD_Film Artists]

99% of americans cant even find america on a map

why should they care who discovered it

Done feeling superior? you know that's not true.

how is notice sarcasm?

I'd say it's more exaggeration than sarcasm. :3

[Nord schandliche]

so most users on here lack the skills to spot blatantly made up statistics and sarcasm?

No, there really have been people that post things that stupid, except the difference is that they actually believe them.

so users here are so stupid they are unable to spot stupid things?

maybe i should watch what i say then

plenty of people say stupid things and mean them.

[Vetalia]

so users here are so stupid they are unable to spot stupid things?

maybe i should watch what i say then

Nah, keep at it. Not all of us are oblivious.

[Jordaxia]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." perhaps?

Sure, that's it, a conspiracy to deny the brave seafarers of Scandinavia their moment in history. Why would it be a lie? Until relatively recently, not many people knew about the Norse voyages to North America. The only accepted site, L'Anse aux Meadows, was only discovered in 1960.

Obviously that's what I meant. I'm still really quite bitter about Columbus completely stealing the credit from the Norse. I didn't mean anything about how perhaps when a piece of misinformation permeates the public consciousness it can often take on a life of its own as an explanation as to why people still think Columbus discovered America.

[Vetalia]

Obviously that's what I meant. I'm still really quite bitter about Columbus completely stealing the credit from the Norse. I didn't mean anything about how perhaps when a piece of misinformation permeates the public consciousness it can often take on a life of its own as an explanation as to why people still think Columbus discovered America.

He did, though. The Norse got here first, but all of their discoveries were forgotten or lost and they left no discernable lasting impact on the continent; Columbus effectively discovered it because his discovery led to the Columbian Exchange and constant settlement in, contact with and exploration of the Americas over the past 518 years. Heron of Alexandria discovered the steam engine, but he doesn't deserve any real credit for it compared to inventors in France and England during the 17th century because his discovery was lost and nothing came of it.

[Rambhutan]

But I discovered America, I remember it well at the time America was working as a waitress in a cocktail bar...

[Hegstoria]

Are we forgetting Saint Brendan here people?

As an Irish American, whose family is from the same area as Brendan and has an Uncle who is at the Parish on Dingle, I am even willing to tell you that is a legend.

[The Archregimancy]

Well he may not have realized it when he set foot in the West Indies but he was technically one of the first explorers/travellers/whatever here.

If you read the work of Barry Fell, just about everyone and his brother got to the Americas before poor old Columbus.

Barry Fell's opinions on epigraphy have as much credibility within mainstream archaeology as my opinions on Asteroidea have within mainstream marine biology.

Which I know you know, but I want to make sure that everyone who doesn't know knows too.

There's just something about archaeology that seems to encourage a lot of laypeople to think they know better than people who've spent their entire careers studying the evidence. Not that I'm saying that dedicated amateurs can't make a significant contribution, or that archaeologists are infallible, or that some sort of credible evidence demonstrating stronger links between Europe and North America might not be discovered in the future... but just why do the public give so much credence to people like Fell and Von Daniken, while being so dismissive towards the people who really do study the field?

Though I suppose we did get our own back when it comes to climate change; if I remember correctly, one of the leading climate change sceptics is an anthropologist.

[United Marktoria]

When the Vikings stumbled upon America around 1000 CE, it wasn't that known around the world. The Vikings tried to start up settlements, but their settlements eventually died out and faded away into history. It is possible that Zheng He might have discovered America, but there is no true proof of him doing so, or even records of such an event. The Polynesians might have also known about the America's, but probably, like the Viking's, failed in settling there. Or they might have possibly intermated with the native population. To be honest, Columbus's voyages were probably the most successful voyages to the Americas. Plus, his discovery wouldn't become unknown to the world like the previous discoverys became. It was literally a dramatic turning point in history. True, Columbus was not the first to discover the America's, but his discovery was far more successful and known than the others. At the time of his voyage, his discovery was new. No one knew there were two continents out there. Because all who DID discover the new lands befor Columbus failed, and word of their discovery was not known by the rest of the world.

[United Marktoria]

The thing that pisses me off the most about the History Channel thing today was that some guy was like "A lot of people in Columbus's fleet were terrified because they thought they were going to fall off the edge of the Earth."

Literally none of them did because they knew the goddamn world was round. The year of Columbus's voyage was the year the goddamn GLOBE was invented. I don't understand why something called the History Channel airs such shit. Most of the stuff in the show today is widely believed to be a hoax by the academic community, to boot. The History Channel is a joke.

No, I have read exerts from some sailors journals that show some of them planned to mutiny if they didn't stop soon. Even during Columbus's time, things like the Globe would only be privy to the upper class, not lowly sailors. The public scoffed at Columbus, but the Spanish royalty knew he was right and that's why they funded him.

The Sailors knew the world was round. The idea the world is flat was simply not prevalent in that day and age. The Sailors were scared because they knew that the ocean between Europe and Asia was simply huge, and thus, basically a death sentence. They would have ran out of food and supplies, and basically die out at sea. That's what they were afraid of. However, no one knew that there was two massive continents inbetween Asia and Europe. Columbus basically stumbled on America.

[Ashmoria]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." perhaps?

Sure, that's it, a conspiracy to deny the brave seafarers of Scandinavia their moment in history. Why would it be a lie? Until relatively recently, not many people knew about the Norse voyages to North America. The only accepted site, L'Anse aux Meadows, was only discovered in 1960.

Obviously that's what I meant. I'm still really quite bitter about Columbus completely stealing the credit from the Norse. I didn't mean anything about how perhaps when a piece of misinformation permeates the public consciousness it can often take on a life of its own as an explanation as to why people still think Columbus discovered America.

hey thats the fault of the norse now isnt it? if they had publicized the whole thing there would be no later "discovery".

[Ashmoria]

Well he may not have realized it when he set foot in the West Indies but he was technically one of the first explorers/travellers/whatever here.

If you read the work of Barry Fell, just about everyone and his brother got to the Americas before poor old Columbus.

Barry Fell's opinions on epigraphy have as much credibility within mainstream archaeology as my opinions on Asteroidea have within mainstream marine biology.

Which I know you know, but I want to make sure that everyone who doesn't know knows too.

There's just something about archaeology that seems to encourage a lot of laypeople to think they know better than people who've spent their entire careers studying the evidence. Not that I'm saying that dedicated amateurs can't make a significant contribution, or that archaeologists are infallible, or that some sort of credible evidence demonstrating stronger links between Europe and North America might not be discovered in the future... but just why do the public give so much credence to people like Fell and Von Daniken, while being so dismissive towards the people who really do study the field?

Though I suppose we did get our own back when it comes to climate change; if I remember correctly, one of the leading climate change sceptics is an anthropologist.

i dont know nothin' about fell but von daniken is WAY more exciting than any archaeologist.

and he published in the mass market not in peer reviewed journals.

[Hegstoria]

Okay, for those of you who have stated it is in the NYS SS Curriculum, I have looked up 6t to 10th and there is nothing about Lief Erickson, literally I can't find a single mention of the Vikings, let alone him. Grade 11 is U.S. only, it doesn't even mention colonialism. But the Global History and Geography Curriculum specifically mentions Columbus, in fact it's its own bullet. NYS SS curriculum page. Core 1 is P-8 and core 2 is HS.

Maybe one of you can find it, I only did a quick search looking for the corresponding dates and subsequent keywords.

[SaintB]

Columbus gets the credit as he was the first to return with news about a brand new world.

[Bergnovinaia]

Technically, not even the Vikings " first discovered" the Americas. I may be wrong, but weren't there already people living there?

Native Americans...

Yeah, I think we're more talking about who's credited with discovering America since America is believed to have been in no way connected to Europe, Africa, Asia, or even Austrailia, so it was believed to be a "new continent."

Most people think this because hundreds of thousands of years ago, when some group of people migrated to the Americas, we don't have any reason to believe they sent someone back to the tribe to say 'OMG, new continent guys!" Plus, this was probably pre-historical reccords.

lolZ.

Well whoever first discovered it... . Shame we can't give them credit.

I know... lol