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The Second Amendment

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do You Believe That Everyone Should Have The Right To Bear Arms?

Yes
98
65%
No
53
35%
 
Total votes : 151

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Ostronopolis
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Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Father Knows Best State

The Second Amendment

Postby Ostronopolis » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:44 pm

So do you think that people should be allowed to bear arms, or do you think it should be reserved for the military and police?
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Chumblywumbly
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Posts: 5615
Founded: Feb 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Chumblywumbly » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:47 pm

I think everybody should have the right to arm bears.
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Conserative Morality
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Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
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Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:49 pm

If it gets restricted to the military and police, than the government will have QUITE the measure of control.

And plus, it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
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Maurepas
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Founded: Apr 17, 2009
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Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Maurepas » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:49 pm

Chumblywumbly wrote:I think everybody should have the right to arm bears.

Idk....*thinks of Bears with bombs or machine guns strapped to them being let loose in populated areas*.... :blink:

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The Romulan Republic
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Posts: 10904
Founded: May 20, 2008
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Re: The Second Amendment

Postby The Romulan Republic » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:49 pm

To the question as worded in the poll? No. Not everyone should have the right to bear arms. The mentally disturbed, violent criminals, and children come to mind.

As for the "right to bear arms," it certainly need not apply to everyone. I don't have a copy of the actual text on hand, but I don't think it reads "the unlimited right for anyone, anywhere to possess or use an unlimited number of guns, of any kind."
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - President Abraham Lincoln.

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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
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Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:51 pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:To the question as worded in the poll? No. Not everyone should have the right to bear arms. The mentally disturbed, violent criminals, and children come to mind.

As for the "right to bear arms," it certainly need not apply to everyone. I don't have a copy of the actual text on hand, but I don't think it reads "the unlimited right for anyone, anywhere to possess or use an unlimited number of guns, of any kind."

If it's between everyone having the right, or just the government and police, which would you choose?
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Ifreann
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Posts: 163935
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:52 pm

Guns are very dangerous tools. A person's right to own one should be contingent on their ability and intention to use it safely.
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Baycosa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 811
Founded: May 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Baycosa » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:52 pm

If everyone has guns, don't we have equal power?
The Commonwealth of Baycosa
Current goverment: Military Junta Former goverment: Executed
President of Baycosa, Field Marshal of the Commonwealth: Farhad M. Polh
Currently in a state of War aginst the Socialist Republic of Osea - The Osea War
Details:
- Operation Sunrise "The confrontation at Podgrad"
- 70 Soldiers "Baycosan Recon Forces", 3 Cobra gunships, 3 Transport choppers - Unkown numbers of local communist Milita and Regulars

Est. casualties inflicted:
51 confirmed kills / 70+ Est.
1 Mi-26
Civilian casualties and damage to civilian structure.

Confirmed Losses:
19 Baycosan recon soldiers KIA/MIA
2 Baycosan pilots MIA
1 Cobra guship


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Dumb Ideologies
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Posts: 45991
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:53 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:And plus, it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.


But a right to bear arms makes it easier for your average low-grade wannabe criminal to get a gun...
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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Trippoli
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Founded: May 16, 2009
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Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Trippoli » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:53 pm

There should be a larger tax on Assault Rifles and other large weapons, but at the same time let them own them.
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Grays Harbor
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Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:53 pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:To the question as worded in the poll? No. Not everyone should have the right to bear arms. The mentally disturbed, violent criminals, and children come to mind.

As for the "right to bear arms," it certainly need not apply to everyone. I don't have a copy of the actual text on hand, but I don't think it reads "the unlimited right for anyone, anywhere to possess or use an unlimited number of guns, of any kind."


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


The mentally disturbed and convicted felons already are barred from possessing firearms by Federal law.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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Baycosa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 811
Founded: May 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Baycosa » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:54 pm

Ifreann wrote:Guns are very dangerous tools. A person's right to own one should be contingent on their ability and intention to use it safely.


Of course, but so are knives, cars and fatty food.

More people die because of traffic violators, drunk drivers or people who simply are lunatics.
Should we ban cars?
The Commonwealth of Baycosa
Current goverment: Military Junta Former goverment: Executed
President of Baycosa, Field Marshal of the Commonwealth: Farhad M. Polh
Currently in a state of War aginst the Socialist Republic of Osea - The Osea War
Details:
- Operation Sunrise "The confrontation at Podgrad"
- 70 Soldiers "Baycosan Recon Forces", 3 Cobra gunships, 3 Transport choppers - Unkown numbers of local communist Milita and Regulars

Est. casualties inflicted:
51 confirmed kills / 70+ Est.
1 Mi-26
Civilian casualties and damage to civilian structure.

Confirmed Losses:
19 Baycosan recon soldiers KIA/MIA
2 Baycosan pilots MIA
1 Cobra guship


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Baycosa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 811
Founded: May 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Baycosa » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:55 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:And plus, it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.


But a right to bear arms makes it easier for your average low-grade wannabe criminal to get a gun...


Not if the guns are kept under check, legal guns are almost never used in crimes because they can be traced.
The Commonwealth of Baycosa
Current goverment: Military Junta Former goverment: Executed
President of Baycosa, Field Marshal of the Commonwealth: Farhad M. Polh
Currently in a state of War aginst the Socialist Republic of Osea - The Osea War
Details:
- Operation Sunrise "The confrontation at Podgrad"
- 70 Soldiers "Baycosan Recon Forces", 3 Cobra gunships, 3 Transport choppers - Unkown numbers of local communist Milita and Regulars

Est. casualties inflicted:
51 confirmed kills / 70+ Est.
1 Mi-26
Civilian casualties and damage to civilian structure.

Confirmed Losses:
19 Baycosan recon soldiers KIA/MIA
2 Baycosan pilots MIA
1 Cobra guship


User avatar
Grays Harbor
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18574
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:55 pm

Baycosa wrote:Should we ban cars?

depends on whether you listen to the "green" lobby
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:55 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:To the question as worded in the poll? No. Not everyone should have the right to bear arms. The mentally disturbed, violent criminals, and children come to mind.

As for the "right to bear arms," it certainly need not apply to everyone. I don't have a copy of the actual text on hand, but I don't think it reads "the unlimited right for anyone, anywhere to possess or use an unlimited number of guns, of any kind."

If it's between everyone having the right, or just the government and police, which would you choose?


Why should we answer a ridiculous hypothetical?

Should everyone have the right to murder, or just the government and police?

As The Romulan Republic correctly stated, the right to bear arms is a valuable but not absolute right.
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

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JuNii
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13517
Founded: Aug 22, 2004
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby JuNii » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:56 pm

Ostronopolis wrote:So do you think that people should be allowed to bear arms, or do you think it should be reserved for the military and police?

what have you got against Tank tops? :p

I support the right to have weapons. but I also support the necessity to have training in using such weapons.
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
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Baycosa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 811
Founded: May 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Baycosa » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:56 pm

Trippoli wrote:There should be a larger tax on Assault Rifles and other large weapons, but at the same time let them own them.


I agree, then only those who are serious owners can get them not just those "The AK iz kool" freaks.
The Commonwealth of Baycosa
Current goverment: Military Junta Former goverment: Executed
President of Baycosa, Field Marshal of the Commonwealth: Farhad M. Polh
Currently in a state of War aginst the Socialist Republic of Osea - The Osea War
Details:
- Operation Sunrise "The confrontation at Podgrad"
- 70 Soldiers "Baycosan Recon Forces", 3 Cobra gunships, 3 Transport choppers - Unkown numbers of local communist Milita and Regulars

Est. casualties inflicted:
51 confirmed kills / 70+ Est.
1 Mi-26
Civilian casualties and damage to civilian structure.

Confirmed Losses:
19 Baycosan recon soldiers KIA/MIA
2 Baycosan pilots MIA
1 Cobra guship


User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10904
Founded: May 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby The Romulan Republic » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:56 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:If it gets restricted to the military and police, than the government will have QUITE the measure of control.

And plus, it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.


Oh please. :unsure:

If it became nessissary to overthrow the government by force, then

a) we will already have failed in our duty as citizens of a democracy in letting things reach that point, and

b) we can always get black market guns, get them from foreign backers, or improvise weapons.

c) Even if every citizen owned an automatic rifle, I'm not sure how much difference it would make. The government still has the tanks, artillery, and stealth bombers. Thanks to Bill Mahr for pointing this out, and while I don't always agree with the PETA-loving bastard, he kind of has a point here.

d) I question weather so many conservatives so willingly give up freedoms of various kinds because the Right to Bear Arms allows them to delude themselves into thinking that they're free as long as they can still shoot the Feds if they want to. I also wonder who thinks this is a good social attitude to encourage.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - President Abraham Lincoln.

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Vilmaria
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: May 26, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Vilmaria » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:56 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:And plus, it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.


But a right to bear arms makes it easier for your average low-grade wannabe criminal to get a gun...


and it makes it much easier for you to shoot him if he tries to use that thing.
aww well who's John Galt
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JuNii
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Posts: 13517
Founded: Aug 22, 2004
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby JuNii » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:57 pm

The Cat-Tribe wrote:As The Romulan Republic correctly stated, the right to bear arms is a valuable but not absolute right.

and if I may add...

it's a right that comes with ALOT of Responsibility!
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

Unscramble these words...1) PNEIS. 2)HTIELR 3) NGGERI 4) BUTTSXE
1) SPINE. 2) LITHER 3)GINGER 4)SUBTEXT

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The Cat-Tribe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5548
Founded: Jan 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:57 pm

Baycosa wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Guns are very dangerous tools. A person's right to own one should be contingent on their ability and intention to use it safely.


Of course, but so are knives, cars and fatty food.

More people die because of traffic violators, drunk drivers or people who simply are lunatics.
Should we ban cars?


Um. The privilege of driving a vehicle IS contingent on compliance with requirements meant to increase the likelihood and intention of using it safely. Bad example, padawan.
I quit (again).
The Altani Confederacy wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
"Don't give me no shit because . . . I've been Tired . . ." ~ Pixies
With that, "he put his boots on, he took a face from the Ancient Gallery, and he walked on down the Hall . . ."

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Saint Clair Island
Minister
 
Posts: 3233
Founded: Feb 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Saint Clair Island » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:57 pm

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I agree with this sentiment. While the existence of a police and military means that citizens should not be required to keep and bear arms, it does mean that they should have the right to maintain them (especially if they have served in the military) in case of foreign invasion or civil unrest.

I also support the right of people to own firearms for sport or home defense, although I don't see the appeal in the former and the logic in the latter, simply because it makes them feel better -- and happy people are more likely to support their community in difficult times, after all.
Signatures are for losers.

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Baycosa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 811
Founded: May 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Baycosa » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:58 pm

Grays Harbor wrote:
Baycosa wrote:Should we ban cars?

depends on whether you listen to the "green" lobby


Ok, let's say fatty food.

More people die for clogged arteries then smoking, alcohol and guns put togheter. Why don't the ATF change name to FATF Fattie Alcohol Tobacco Firearms.
The Commonwealth of Baycosa
Current goverment: Military Junta Former goverment: Executed
President of Baycosa, Field Marshal of the Commonwealth: Farhad M. Polh
Currently in a state of War aginst the Socialist Republic of Osea - The Osea War
Details:
- Operation Sunrise "The confrontation at Podgrad"
- 70 Soldiers "Baycosan Recon Forces", 3 Cobra gunships, 3 Transport choppers - Unkown numbers of local communist Milita and Regulars

Est. casualties inflicted:
51 confirmed kills / 70+ Est.
1 Mi-26
Civilian casualties and damage to civilian structure.

Confirmed Losses:
19 Baycosan recon soldiers KIA/MIA
2 Baycosan pilots MIA
1 Cobra guship


User avatar
Sorgan
Senator
 
Posts: 3560
Founded: Jun 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Sorgan » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:58 pm

Baycosa wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Guns are very dangerous tools. A person's right to own one should be contingent on their ability and intention to use it safely.


Of course, but so are knives, cars and fatty food.

More people die because of traffic violators, drunk drivers or people who simply are lunatics.
Should we ban cars?

That what my nation did.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163935
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Re: The Second Amendment

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:58 pm

Baycosa wrote:If everyone has guns, don't we have equal power?

No. How many guns do you think Barack Obama has? Yet he's the commander in chief of a huge military.
Baycosa wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Guns are very dangerous tools. A person's right to own one should be contingent on their ability and intention to use it safely.


Of course, but so are knives, cars and fatty food.

Fatty food is not a tool. And knives are less dangerous than guns.

More people die because of traffic violators, drunk drivers or people who simply are lunatics.
Should we ban cars?

Of course not. Why would you even ask me that?
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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