Was the US founded on christian beliefs?

[Wilgrove]

Cool story br-

Shit.

No it's not a Christian nation, was never meant to be a Christian nation, and should remain a secular nation for as long as it remains a nation. Anyone who believes otherwise is believing a falsehood. Yes, I believe all the founding fathers believed in a deity of some sort. That does not make them Christian, and even if they were, it wouldn't matter, as the government's principles never talked about any religion - except to keep it out of government.

Furthermore, I believe all nations should be secular and free of religion as much as reasonably possible.

Agreed.

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, I think most sane posters had already grasped this. Can we move on?

[Maurepas]

I really really dislike the term "USian". It just sounds way too PC, and just........ weird.

I agree, but the debate had centered around whether we could claim the name of the Continent as our own...

probably shouldnt discuss it any further at the risk of a threadjack, it was a bad joke anyway...

[South Lorenya]

Oh, why did they stop updating I Drew This when there's still so much left to fight for?

[Ifreann]

This is NSG, our horses are undead and impervious to beatings.

should we alert the ZRT (Zombie Response Team) to the undead horses?

But then how would we ride about the intertubes on our high undead horses?

[Grays Harbor]

This is NSG, our horses are undead and impervious to beatings.

should we alert the ZRT (Zombie Response Team) to the undead horses?

But then how would we ride about the intertubes on our high undead horses?

your horse is high? do we need to call the DEA as well?


Boy, you in some trouble now, both the ZRT and DEA gonna be all over your high undead horse.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Nope, it wasn't. Hm... I don't think many countries are founded upon religious beliefs.

[Galloism]

your horse is high? do we need to call the DEA as well?


Boy, you in some trouble now, both the ZRT and DEA gonna be all over your high undead horse.

PETA too. I'm sure they'll be miffed at finding out we're keeping a horse alive beyond the grave and then feeding it hallucinogenic substances.

[Conserative Morality]

Nope, it wasn't. Hm... I don't think many countries are founded upon religious beliefs.

The Vatican City.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Nope, it wasn't. Hm... I don't think many countries are founded upon religious beliefs.

The Vatican City.

Hence the ''not many are'' reference.

[Maurepas]

Nope, it wasn't. Hm... I don't think many countries are founded upon religious beliefs.

The Vatican City.

The majority of countries in the Middle East...

[Chrobalta]

The United States was founded as a Secular, Confederation-Constitutional-Republic. Not a Christian nation. Sure, most of the guys who founded the country were Christians, but they did not found it as a Christian nation.

[JuNii]

Being "founded on Chritian Beliefs" does not mean "A Christian Nation".

with this statement, I say Yes, America was founded on Christian Beliefs but it is NOT a Christian Nation.

Id have to ask you to prove that, cause the likes of Jefferson and Franklin tend to disagree,

please show me where Jefferson and Franklin say that the US was NOT founded on Christian Beliefs (not the Religion, the Beliefs)

[Maurepas]

The United States was founded as a Secular, Confederation-Constitutional-Republic. Not a Christian nation. Sure, most of the guys who founded the country were Christians, but they did not found it as a Christian nation.

Well, if you mean the Founding Fathers, then no, most of them were not...

They were actually Deists in the vein of the Enlightenment...

[Ifreann]

The two people who voted yes don't seem to have much to say for themselves.

[Maurepas]

Being "founded on Chritian Beliefs" does not mean "A Christian Nation".

with this statement, I say Yes, America was founded on Christian Beliefs but it is NOT a Christian Nation.

Id have to ask you to prove that, cause the likes of Jefferson and Franklin tend to disagree,

please show me where Jefferson and Franklin say that the US was NOT founded on Christian Beliefs (not the Religion, the Beliefs)

I think the phrase goes "the burden of proof is on the accuser", You made the claim not I...

Prove it...

[JarVik]

I'm not a yank so take my oppinion with a grain of salt but.. with an evident desire for seperation of church and state shown by the FF, I don't think the USA was founded as christian state. Yes the FF were part of a christian culture but these questions obviously lead to how much God there should be in the state, the seperation of church and state implies none.

And lets just pretend for a moment that it was, does that in anyway change whether it is a good idea today? Do people think that having religious leaders calling the shots in Iran is a good political model?
If USA was a more "christian state" how different would it be from Iran. Have "elections" where the candidates have to be church approved and get rid of the senate and replace it with the hall of cardinals or some such priesty group? Does anyone who's not looking forward to the rapture think that would be a remotely good idea?

[JuNii]

Id have to ask you to prove that, cause the likes of Jefferson and Franklin tend to disagree,

please show me where Jefferson and Franklin say that the US was NOT founded on Christian Beliefs (not the Religion, the Beliefs)

I think the phrase goes "the burden of proof is on the accuser", You made the claim not I...

Prove it...

you said that Franklin and Jefferson disagreed that the US was founded on christian Beliefs.

I gave My opinion. never stated it as fact.

[Dumb Ideologies]

No, it wasn't, since the founders were mostly Deist rather than Christian.

More interesting question, why should it matter if it was founded on religious beliefs? Why would that create an obligation on the current generation to keep a religious foundation to policy? It should be a matter only of historic interest, not one of policy relevance.

[JuNii]

More interesting question, why should it matter if it was founded on religious beliefs? Why would that create an obligation on the current generation to keep a religious foundation to policy? It should be a matter only of historic interest, not one of policy relevance.

it doesn't. because the INTENT of the US Founding was not to create a Christian Nation.

[Hayteria]

No it's not a Christian nation, was never meant to be a Christian nation, and should remain a secular nation for as long as it remains a nation. Anyone who believes otherwise is believing a falsehood. Yes, I believe all the founding fathers believed in a deity of some sort. That does not make them Christian, and even if they were, it wouldn't matter, as the government's principles never talked about any religion - except to keep it out of government.

This exactly. Even if the founding fathers were religious (and at least some of them obviously didn't think much of Christianity) the important thing is that they didn't advocate using government to shove their religious beliefs down everyone else's throats.

[Dumb Ideologies]

More interesting question, why should it matter if it was founded on religious beliefs? Why would that create an obligation on the current generation to keep a religious foundation to policy? It should be a matter only of historic interest, not one of policy relevance.

it doesn't. because the INTENT of the US Founding was not to create a Christian Nation.

Way to miss the point of what I said. It was a hypothetical

I'll rephrase. IF (disregarding the fact that it clearly wasn't) the US was founded on Christian beliefs as some on the right have said, how could it be argued that this was grounds for religious influences to still be important in policymaking hundreds of years in the future?

[Antilon]

So can someone explain to me why anyone who wasn't Christian was discriminated against by the U.S.?

[Ifreann]

I gave My opinion. never stated it as fact.

And what is the basis for your opinion?

[Maurepas]

you said that Franklin and Jefferson disagreed that the US was founded on christian Beliefs.

I gave My opinion. never stated it as fact.

So you admit that your statement is not fact, got it...

Now, If you refer to my first post of this thread:

No, it wasnt, As Thomas Jefferson put it there is a "Wall of Seperation" between the Church and the US Government...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#Jefferson.2C_Madison.2C_and_the_.22wall_of_separation.22

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Any educated person should know this, claiming that the US is a "Christian Nation" or any other religion thereof is ignorant, and wrong...

Thomas Jefferson clearly states that No Religion, including Christianity, is present within the US Government...