Standard Operating Procedure: 360 Degree Rotational Fire

[Utvara]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

You kill every motherfucker on the street.

[Panzerjaeger]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

[quote="Utvara";p="2420463"“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

[/quote]
Again this is secondhand and doesn't coincide with the order of 360 degree fire. He is also the only soldier thus far claiming this from the battalion and thus he likely could be exaggerating.

[SaintB]

Shooting in to crowds of people after they've just been blown up is a great way to make new friends. The soldiers go there knowing full well the dangers, they like the one in the OP usually go there thinking they are protecting the Iraqi people, they are SUPPOSED to be protecting the Iraqi people. Firing into crowds of civilians because one of the might possibly maybe probably be ready to ambush you is a war crime, suppressive fire is designed to keep the enemy's heads down but it will cut any poor SOB who doesn't have a hiding place in half.

The very fact that its counter intuitive to the mission goals we set ourselves in Iraq should be enough to make it an unacceptable practice. That's not even including the moral implications.

[Brogavia]

The very fact that its counter intuitive to the mission goals we set ourselves in Iraq should be enough to make it an unacceptable practice.

1. Set up a secure puppet state in Oil producing country
2. ????
3. Profit

I don't see how the alleged SOP order is counter intuitive to those goals at all.

[SaintB]

The very fact that its counter intuitive to the mission goals we set ourselves in Iraq should be enough to make it an unacceptable practice.

1. Set up a secure puppet state in Oil producing country
2. ????
3. Profit

I don't see how the alleged SOP order is counter intuitive to those goals at all.

If you continually have conflicts springing up than its not secure. Even the Soviets pretended to be nice to their puppets.

[Panzerjaeger]

The very fact that its counter intuitive to the mission goals we set ourselves in Iraq should be enough to make it an unacceptable practice.

1. Set up a secure puppet state in Oil producing country
2. ????
3. Profit

I don't see how the alleged SOP order is counter intuitive to those goals at all.

If you continually have conflicts springing up than its not secure. Even the Soviets pretended to be ice to their puppets.

You don't have to pretend to be ice in Moscow during Winter.

[Brogavia]

The very fact that its counter intuitive to the mission goals we set ourselves in Iraq should be enough to make it an unacceptable practice.

1. Set up a secure puppet state in Oil producing country
2. ????
3. Profit

I don't see how the alleged SOP order is counter intuitive to those goals at all.

If you continually have conflicts springing up than its not secure. Even the Soviets pretended to be ice to their puppets.

You don't have to pretend to be ice in Moscow during Winter.

Or in summer for that matter.

[SaintB]

The very fact that its counter intuitive to the mission goals we set ourselves in Iraq should be enough to make it an unacceptable practice.

1. Set up a secure puppet state in Oil producing country
2. ????
3. Profit

I don't see how the alleged SOP order is counter intuitive to those goals at all.

If you continually have conflicts springing up than its not secure. Even the Soviets pretended to be ice to their puppets.

You don't have to pretend to be ice in Moscow during Winter.

See the edit.

[South-Western Dakota]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

[SaintB]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

[South-Western Dakota]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or atleast at ground level standing.

[Non Aligned States]

Was going to post this. Damn you, Natapoc!

If you have a problem with the executive orders, take it up with them, but since you seem to think that following orders that you've sworn to follow, not illegal ones at that, is grounds for getting yourself killed, both you and Natapoc should be the ones to live, and die, for that kind of "holier than thou while I'm not the one being shot at" morality

Are you prepared to die for your morality? No? Too bad, you don't get to choose.

[Non Aligned States]

Again this is secondhand and doesn't coincide with the order of 360 degree fire. He is also the only soldier thus far claiming this from the battalion and thus he likely could be exaggerating.

We also have no guarantee that he is a soldier to begin with. Remember that youtube video interview some time back of a "special forces" soldier who claimed all sorts of terrible things, when a cursory search proved that there was no such branch he claimed to belong to?

[SaintB]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or at least at ground level standing.

According to the article the soldiers in question were ordered to fire AT civilians.

When my brother was in Iraq last year they were told by their direct commanders to use 360 degree security, in case of an IED attack they were to pull together in a circle watching all possible directions but they were not to fire unless fired upon or ordered too. So it seems to me that there is a high possibility of the units commander deliberately breaking policy and international laws on the off chance he might save the life of one of his men and at the expense of an untold number of civilians. Or, my brother's unit it in the minority meaning the entire thing is a farce and once more the idiots in command have created a never ending shitstorm that will only end with us leaving with our tails tucked between our legs and our international image ruined once more... and plenty more people wanting to blow up some nice big target in downtown somewhere USA. Go team America!

[Panzerjaeger]

Again this is secondhand and doesn't coincide with the order of 360 degree fire. He is also the only soldier thus far claiming this from the battalion and thus he likely could be exaggerating.

We also have no guarantee that he is a soldier to begin with. Remember that youtube video interview some time back of a "special forces" soldier who claimed all sorts of terrible things, when a cursory search proved that there was no such branch he claimed to belong to?

True I remember that and thought his story was bullshit from the beginning just as I find this story...uhh kind of bullshit they enacted and SOP that is typical US Military response to an Ambush? I'll be damned. I remember my time modding on a Large Military Forum caused headaches just dealing with the Online Rambos and nutty kids thus I take stories like this with a large grain of salt as people enjoy making up stories to make themselves look important especially the recent spate of fake vets who become mouthpieces for Far-Left Movements and Parties.

[South-Western Dakota]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or at least at ground level standing.

According to the article the soldiers in question were ordered to fire AT civilians.

When my brother was in Iraq last year they were told by their direct commanders to use 360 degree security, in case of an IED attack they were to pull together in a circle watching all possible directions but they were not to fire unless fired upon or ordered too. So it seems to me that there is a high possibility of the units commander deliberately breaking policy and international laws on the off chance he might save the life of one of his men and at the expense of an untold number of civilians. Or, my brother's unit it in the minority meaning the entire thing is a farce and once more the idiots in command have created a never ending shitstorm that will only end with us leaving with our tails tucked between our legs and our international image ruined once more... and plenty more people wanting to blow up some nice big target in downtown somewhere USA. Go team America!

Thats what happens when your enemy dresses like civilians, anybody could be your enemy. Lets think about this whole "wait till fired upon" maneuver. If you all line up nicely in a circle sitting there with your guns out doesn't that pretty much set yourself up to be shot? Which would YOU want to do in that situation pray your not the first one to be fire upon or lay down suppressive fire?

[SaintB]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or at least at ground level standing.

According to the article the soldiers in question were ordered to fire AT civilians.

When my brother was in Iraq last year they were told by their direct commanders to use 360 degree security, in case of an IED attack they were to pull together in a circle watching all possible directions but they were not to fire unless fired upon or ordered too. So it seems to me that there is a high possibility of the units commander deliberately breaking policy and international laws on the off chance he might save the life of one of his men and at the expense of an untold number of civilians. Or, my brother's unit it in the minority meaning the entire thing is a farce and once more the idiots in command have created a never ending shitstorm that will only end with us leaving with our tails tucked between our legs and our international image ruined once more... and plenty more people wanting to blow up some nice big target in downtown somewhere USA. Go team America!

Thats what happens when your enemy dresses like civilians, anybody could be your enemy. Lets think about this whole "wait till fired upon" maneuver. If you all line up nicely in a circle sitting there with your guns out doesn't that pretty much set yourself up to be shot? Which would YOU want to do in that situation pray your not the first one to be fire upon or lay down suppressive fire?

Honestly? As a representative my nation and my cause; one I decided I'd die for if I had to. I'd hold my fire until ordered or fired upon like I've been trained to do; the same as my brother did, and my father did, and my grandfather did...

[Caninope]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

You kill every motherfucker on the street.

Which is most likely an exaggeration. Whenever you yell at someone that you want them dead, you usually don't mean that.

[South-Western Dakota]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or at least at ground level standing.

According to the article the soldiers in question were ordered to fire AT civilians.

When my brother was in Iraq last year they were told by their direct commanders to use 360 degree security, in case of an IED attack they were to pull together in a circle watching all possible directions but they were not to fire unless fired upon or ordered too. So it seems to me that there is a high possibility of the units commander deliberately breaking policy and international laws on the off chance he might save the life of one of his men and at the expense of an untold number of civilians. Or, my brother's unit it in the minority meaning the entire thing is a farce and once more the idiots in command have created a never ending shitstorm that will only end with us leaving with our tails tucked between our legs and our international image ruined once more... and plenty more people wanting to blow up some nice big target in downtown somewhere USA. Go team America!

Thats what happens when your enemy dresses like civilians, anybody could be your enemy. Lets think about this whole "wait till fired upon" maneuver. If you all line up nicely in a circle sitting there with your guns out doesn't that pretty much set yourself up to be shot? Which would YOU want to do in that situation pray your not the first one to be fire upon or lay down suppressive fire?

Honestly? As a representative my nation and my cause; one I decided I'd die for if I had to. I'd hold my fire until ordered or fired upon like I've been trained to do; the same as my brother did, and my father did, and my grandfather did...

There is a significantly large difference between dying defending yourself and dying because you made yourself a sitting duck. Warfare is a dynamic thing, what worked before in previous wars will not always work, and when your commander, the man\woman who is trained to make split second decisions based upon your current situation and the tactics at hand says hey, lets not be sitting ducks, Shoot, You do it. The soldiers Were ordered to fire and so they did, above the training to not fire till fired upon is the training to not die and the training to follow the orders of your leader.

[SaintB]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

You kill every motherfucker on the street.

Which is most likely an exaggeration. Whenever you yell at someone that you want them dead, you usually don't mean that.

Military orders are to be taken as literal statements. He said "Kill every motherfucker on the street" so they are at the very least responsible for not thinking their decision through, if a single civilian died because of that order he is totally responsible.

[SaintB]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or at least at ground level standing.

According to the article the soldiers in question were ordered to fire AT civilians.

When my brother was in Iraq last year they were told by their direct commanders to use 360 degree security, in case of an IED attack they were to pull together in a circle watching all possible directions but they were not to fire unless fired upon or ordered too. So it seems to me that there is a high possibility of the units commander deliberately breaking policy and international laws on the off chance he might save the life of one of his men and at the expense of an untold number of civilians. Or, my brother's unit it in the minority meaning the entire thing is a farce and once more the idiots in command have created a never ending shitstorm that will only end with us leaving with our tails tucked between our legs and our international image ruined once more... and plenty more people wanting to blow up some nice big target in downtown somewhere USA. Go team America!

Thats what happens when your enemy dresses like civilians, anybody could be your enemy. Lets think about this whole "wait till fired upon" maneuver. If you all line up nicely in a circle sitting there with your guns out doesn't that pretty much set yourself up to be shot? Which would YOU want to do in that situation pray your not the first one to be fire upon or lay down suppressive fire?

Honestly? As a representative my nation and my cause; one I decided I'd die for if I had to. I'd hold my fire until ordered or fired upon like I've been trained to do; the same as my brother did, and my father did, and my grandfather did...

There is a significantly large difference between dying defending yourself and dying because you made yourself a sitting duck. Warfare is a dynamic thing, what worked before in previous wars will not always work, and when your commander, the man\woman who is trained to make split second decisions based upon your current situation and the tactics at hand says hey, lets not be sitting ducks, Shoot, You do it. The soldiers Were ordered to fire and so they did, above the training to not fire till fired upon is the training to not die and the training to follow the orders of your leader.

I'm not a sitting duck, I am armed, armored over a significant portion of my body, and I have people I trust to protect me on all sides. I'm not going to start shooting everything that moves on the off chance one or two of them might maybe be an enemy; all that does is make MORE enemies.

[Panzerjaeger]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

You kill every motherfucker on the street.

Which is most likely an exaggeration. Whenever you yell at someone that you want them dead, you usually don't mean that.

Military orders are to be taken as literal statements. He said "Kill every motherfucker on the street" so they are at the very least responsible for not thinking their decision through, if a single civilian died because of that order he is totally responsible.

Again if the story is even true. No one other then this guy who can't even be confirmed to have served with this unit says so. Don't go believing every story from Socialist World News because one random dude told them so.

[South-Western Dakota]

I'm sorry but what a lot of you people don't seem to understand is that the whole damn country is a war zone. The people that are soldiers are fighting aren't exactly super obvious because they wear no specific uniform. After an IED goes off ANYBODY in the vicinity could be the one who set it off. What do you do? Do you sit there and stare at the floor like a chicken with its head cut off? No, you do the best you can at defending your life from an unknown and UNSEEN threat.
Besides that the war in iraq has been going on for quite a long time, the people of the country should know by now that if a bomb goes off you need to get the fuck down because if there aren't bullets flying everywhere whether they be from insurgents or from assaulted troops there's likely to be flying shrapnel from the blast, AKA a sign to either A) Hit the floor so you don't get hit by anything or B) If near enough retreat to some sort of structure.

Retreating to some sort of structure gets you shot. Staying put gets you shot, dropping down... gets you shot.

I highly doubt that Us soldiers are shooting at a downward angle. If someone set off an IED to hit your troop they need to be able to see you, they are either going to be up high so they have a good vantage point or at least at ground level standing.

According to the article the soldiers in question were ordered to fire AT civilians.

When my brother was in Iraq last year they were told by their direct commanders to use 360 degree security, in case of an IED attack they were to pull together in a circle watching all possible directions but they were not to fire unless fired upon or ordered too. So it seems to me that there is a high possibility of the units commander deliberately breaking policy and international laws on the off chance he might save the life of one of his men and at the expense of an untold number of civilians. Or, my brother's unit it in the minority meaning the entire thing is a farce and once more the idiots in command have created a never ending shitstorm that will only end with us leaving with our tails tucked between our legs and our international image ruined once more... and plenty more people wanting to blow up some nice big target in downtown somewhere USA. Go team America!

Thats what happens when your enemy dresses like civilians, anybody could be your enemy. Lets think about this whole "wait till fired upon" maneuver. If you all line up nicely in a circle sitting there with your guns out doesn't that pretty much set yourself up to be shot? Which would YOU want to do in that situation pray your not the first one to be fire upon or lay down suppressive fire?

Honestly? As a representative my nation and my cause; one I decided I'd die for if I had to. I'd hold my fire until ordered or fired upon like I've been trained to do; the same as my brother did, and my father did, and my grandfather did...

There is a significantly large difference between dying defending yourself and dying because you made yourself a sitting duck. Warfare is a dynamic thing, what worked before in previous wars will not always work, and when your commander, the man\woman who is trained to make split second decisions based upon your current situation and the tactics at hand says hey, lets not be sitting ducks, Shoot, You do it. The soldiers Were ordered to fire and so they did, above the training to not fire till fired upon is the training to not die and the training to follow the orders of your leader.

I'm not a sitting duck, I am armed, armored over a significant portion of my body, and I have people I trust to protect me on all sides. I'm not going to start shooting everything that moves on the off chance one or two of them might maybe be an enemy; all that does is make MORE enemies.

If you are out in the open sitting in a circle doing nothing then yes you are a sitting duck. If they fire upon you first, your weapon is nothing but a hunk of metal, body armor is not all protecting and the People alongside you that you trust serve as nothing but meat shields, but, you don't really make very enemies when your dead do you?

[SaintB]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

You kill every motherfucker on the street.

Which is most likely an exaggeration. Whenever you yell at someone that you want them dead, you usually don't mean that.

Military orders are to be taken as literal statements. He said "Kill every motherfucker on the street" so they are at the very least responsible for not thinking their decision through, if a single civilian died because of that order he is totally responsible.

Again if the story is even true. No one other then this guy who can't even be confirmed to have served with this unit says so. Don't go believing every story from Socialist World News because one random dude told them so.

The point I made stands even if it happened or didn't happen. You can't say "Aww well he didn't mean it" when someone gives an order in the military, or in any organization with a hierarchy and chain of command. If a police chief ordered officers to burn down a building or shoot his wife would he not be held responsible?

[Caninope]

Where does it state kill everyone? Again look up suppressive fire it is far different then point fire used to kill people. I don't see how losing a war makes the lessons learned useless that is a rather idiotic statement since casulty rates improved the longer the way went on because the US Military adapted to these tactics that are still in use. Such as checking bodies for boobytraps, assaulting out of killboxes and the 360 degree of fire. The only thing I know of that isn't in use from Vietnam is the mad minute because it is an utter waste of ammo and is only useful in a jungle.

Facetiousness attempted.

Attempt failed.

Minus one point to humor skill.

=/

I can't tell when people are being serious in this thread. Someone was seriously trying to say suppressive fire meant slaughter everyone in a certain radius...while hilarious and kind of comic bookish it is depressing people have these views. I fail yet again I should go back to the Beck Cave and complain about Obama, Communists and ACORN.

Again,

“If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street."

You kill every motherfucker on the street.

Which is most likely an exaggeration. Whenever you yell at someone that you want them dead, you usually don't mean that.

Military orders are to be taken as literal statements. He said "Kill every motherfucker on the street" so they are at the very least responsible for not thinking their decision through, if a single civilian died because of that order he is totally responsible.

So we completely suspend any context around that statement?