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Standard Operating Procedure: 360 Degree Rotational Fire

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Utvara
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Standard Operating Procedure: 360 Degree Rotational Fire

Postby Utvara » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:30 am

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/53208

Still breaking as there is no MSM reportage so far. Please Facebook/crosspost

Ethan McCord, one of the soldiers seen in the now-famous Wikileaks video in which two American Apache helicopters fire upon a relaxed, unhurried gaggle of men in Baghdad, has stated in an interview with World Socialist Website that he witnessed numerous times the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians in Iraq after IED attacks. McCord is on of the soldiers seen helping two wounded children after the attack. He has stepped forward with open opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and written a letter of apology for his part in the incident to the mother of the children, who has accepted his apology. The mother's husband was killed in the attack and found with his body shielding that of one of his children.

McCord said to reporter Bill Van Auken:

"we had a pretty gung-ho commander, who decided that because we were getting hit by IEDs a lot, there would be a new battalion SOP [standard operating procedure]. He goes, “If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street." Myself and Josh and a lot of other soldiers were just sitting there looking at each other like, “Are you kidding me? You want us to kill women and children on the street?” And you couldn’t just disobey orders to shoot, because they could just make your life hell in Iraq. So like with myself, I would shoot up into the roof of a building instead of down on the ground toward civilians. But I’ve seen it many times, where people are just walking down the street and an IED goes off and the troops open fire and kill them."


The deliberate killing of civilians is a war crime (Nanking 1937, Hankow 1938, German Invasion of Poland 1939.) McCord is one of a growing number of soldiers and support groups who have renounced their actions in Iraq. He said:

"I was the gung-ho soldier. I thought I was going over there to do the greater good. I thought my job over there was to protect the Iraqi people and that this was a job with honor and courage and duty. I was hit by an IED within two weeks of my being in Iraq. And I didn’t understand why people were throwing rocks at us, why I was being shot at and why we’re being blown up, when I have it in my head that I was here to help these people."


McCord says the scenes captured in the Wikileaks video are "an every-day occurrence in Iraq." McCord says that when he found the two children wounded in the van, another soldier began to vomit and ran off. Then he recounts:

"That’s when I saw the boy move with what appeared to be a labored breath. So I stated screaming, “The boy’s alive.” I grabbed him and cradled him in my arms and kept telling him, “Don’t die, don’t die.” He opened his eyes, looked up at me. I told him, “It’s OK, I have you.” His eyes rolled back into his head, and I kept telling him, “It’s OK, I’ve got you.” I ran up to the Bradley and placed him inside. My platoon leader was standing there at the time, and he yelled at me for doing what I did. He told me to “stop worrying about these motherfucking kids and start worrying about pulling security.” So after that I went up and pulled security on a rooftop.


McCord says about his mental state afterwards:

"I went to see a staff sergeant who was in my chain of command and told him I needed to see mental health about what was going on in my head. He told me to “quit being a pussy” and to “suck it up and be a soldier.” He told me that if I wanted to go to mental health, there would be repercussions, one of them being labeled a “malingerer,” which is actually a crime in the US Army."


McCord says the greater story is being overlooked, and that rather than blame individual soldiers, the Army itself should be examined, and its system of training soldiers.

"Instead of people being upset at a few soldiers in a video who were doing what they were trained to do, I think people need to be more upset at the system that trained these soldiers. They are doing exactly what the Army wants them to do."


McCord echoes Major General Smedley D. Butler, the double Medal of Honor winner who resigned his commission and in 1935 became a critic of the nations wars, traveling the country with his book and famous speech "War is a Racket." McCord said in the interview:

"I am not part of any party. Was I hopeful? Yes. Was I surprised that we are still there? No. I’m not surprised at all. There’s something else lying underneath there. It’s not Republican or Democrat; it’s money. There’s something else lying underneath it where Republicans and Democrats together want to keep us in Iraq and Afghanistan."


McCord talks about the ongoing effects of war:

"I still live with this every day. When I close my eyes I see what happened that day and many other days like a slide show in my head. The smells come back to me. The cries of the children come back to me. The people driving this big war machine, they don’t have to deal with this. They live in their $36 million mansions and sleep well at night."


Doesn't look like this has been picked up on by the MSM yet, and I doubt it'll get much attention. I hope to see more whistleblowers come out of the woodwork soon, though.
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Utvara
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Postby Utvara » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:58 am

I posted this at an off time, and I'd like for more people to get to see it, so I'm gonna bump this up to the first page.
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Postby Call to power » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:20 am

American SOP's being very "lax" is kinda old news these days but it only further illustrates that this is what happens when you have commanders with zero accountability and its affect on everyone below

I'd also add that having your mates scattered across the area changes your attitude to some kids throwing rocks at you
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Postby Panzerjaeger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:25 am

360 degree of fire isn't any thing new that SOP was established during Vietnam.
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Postby Utvara » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:26 am

Panzerjaeger wrote:360 degree of fire isn't any thing new that SOP was established during Vietnam.


Into civilians?
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
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Postby Panzerjaeger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:27 am

Utvara wrote:
Panzerjaeger wrote:360 degree of fire isn't any thing new that SOP was established during Vietnam.


Into civilians?

Into anyone since typically most IEDs and ambushes in Vietnam were in the middle of Jungle but the same idea was used in villes as well.

I don't think you understand what 360 degree of fire is. The idea is that once an IED goes off they are to begin suppressive fire in 360 degrees in order to avoid an attack or at least keep heads down till Medics/Corpsmen can move the wounded out of the ambush zone and until the commander can get a handle of how to pull out any elements caught in the ambush zone and then assault out of the ambush zone.
Last edited by Panzerjaeger on Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!

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Postby Gift-of-god » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:44 am

Panzerjaeger wrote:
Utvara wrote:
Panzerjaeger wrote:360 degree of fire isn't any thing new that SOP was established during Vietnam.


Into civilians?

Into anyone since typically most IEDs and ambushes in Vietnam were in the middle of Jungle but the same idea was used in villes as well.

I don't think you understand what 360 degree of fire is. The idea is that once an IED goes off they are to begin suppressive fire in 360 degrees in order to avoid an attack or at least keep heads down till Medics/Corpsmen can move the wounded out of the ambush zone and until the commander can get a handle of how to pull out any elements caught in the ambush zone and then assault out of the ambush zone.


In other words, kill anything that moves. Let god sort out the innocents.
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Postby Call to power » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:52 am

Gift-of-god wrote:In other words, kill anything that moves. Let god sort out the innocents.


Suppressive fire
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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:56 am

Gift-of-god wrote:
Panzerjaeger wrote:
Utvara wrote:
Panzerjaeger wrote:360 degree of fire isn't any thing new that SOP was established during Vietnam.


Into civilians?

Into anyone since typically most IEDs and ambushes in Vietnam were in the middle of Jungle but the same idea was used in villes as well.

I don't think you understand what 360 degree of fire is. The idea is that once an IED goes off they are to begin suppressive fire in 360 degrees in order to avoid an attack or at least keep heads down till Medics/Corpsmen can move the wounded out of the ambush zone and until the commander can get a handle of how to pull out any elements caught in the ambush zone and then assault out of the ambush zone.


In other words, kill anything that moves. Let god sort out the innocents.


Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.
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Postby Panzerjaeger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:03 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Gift-of-god wrote:
Panzerjaeger wrote:
Utvara wrote:
Panzerjaeger wrote:360 degree of fire isn't any thing new that SOP was established during Vietnam.


Into civilians?

Into anyone since typically most IEDs and ambushes in Vietnam were in the middle of Jungle but the same idea was used in villes as well.

I don't think you understand what 360 degree of fire is. The idea is that once an IED goes off they are to begin suppressive fire in 360 degrees in order to avoid an attack or at least keep heads down till Medics/Corpsmen can move the wounded out of the ambush zone and until the commander can get a handle of how to pull out any elements caught in the ambush zone and then assault out of the ambush zone.


In other words, kill anything that moves. Let god sort out the innocents.


Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.

Indeed it was like what was said by Delta Operators during the Battle of Mogadishu, "They aren't friendly if they are staying in the area."
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Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!

Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"

New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.

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Postby Aggicificicerous » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:07 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.


Because if you lie down, you will never get shot. Also, nobody would ever get gunned down while running away.

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Postby Panzerjaeger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:08 am

Aggicificicerous wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.


Because if you lie down, you will never get shot. Also, nobody would ever get gunned down while running away.

Welcome to a combat zone.
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Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!

Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"

New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.

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Postby Gift-of-god » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:08 am

Big Jim P wrote:Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.


Your joke about killing innocent people is hilarious. And also makes an excellent argument.

Panzerjaeger wrote:Indeed it was like what was said by Delta Operators during the Battle of Mogadishu, "They aren't friendly if they are staying in the area."


,,,unless the friendly helpful invading army has already destroyed transport infrastructure in an attempt to Shock and Awe the populace. In which case everyone is staying wherever they are and apparently getting shot, friendly or not.
I am the very model of the modern kaiju Gamera
I've a shell that's indestructible and endless turtle stamina.
I defend the little kids and I level downtown Tokyo
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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:10 am

Gift-of-god wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.


Your joke about killing innocent people is hilarious. And also makes an excellent argument.

Panzerjaeger wrote:Indeed it was like what was said by Delta Operators during the Battle of Mogadishu, "They aren't friendly if they are staying in the area."


,,,unless the friendly helpful invading army has already destroyed transport infrastructure in an attempt to Shock and Awe the populace. In which case everyone is staying wherever they are and apparently getting shot, friendly or not.


I was not joking.
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Postby Panzerjaeger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:11 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Gift-of-god wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:Killing anyone not smart enough to GET DOWN when the first explosion occurs can only improve the human gene pool.


Your joke about killing innocent people is hilarious. And also makes an excellent argument.

Panzerjaeger wrote:Indeed it was like what was said by Delta Operators during the Battle of Mogadishu, "They aren't friendly if they are staying in the area."


,,,unless the friendly helpful invading army has already destroyed transport infrastructure in an attempt to Shock and Awe the populace. In which case everyone is staying wherever they are and apparently getting shot, friendly or not.


I was not joking.

Meh he is talking out his arse apparently people don't have legs or common sense in the Third World anymore.
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Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!

Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"

New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.

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Postby Utvara » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:14 am

The burden is on the occupying force to do everything they can to not slaughter civilians, not on civilians to avoid the hail of bullets. I hope this helps you out.
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:16 am

Utvara wrote:The burden is on the occupying force to do everything they can to not slaughter civilians, not on civilians to avoid the hail of bullets. I hope this helps you out.


The burden on the civilians is not to be setting off IEDs. ;)
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Postby Buffett and Colbert » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:19 am

These SOPs that are being issued are illegal and sick. But of course it's the trigger happy assholes who often seem to get to leadership positions in the army.
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Postby Aggicificicerous » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:19 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Utvara wrote:The burden is on the occupying force to do everything they can to not slaughter civilians, not on civilians to avoid the hail of bullets. I hope this helps you out.


The burden on the civilians is not to be setting off IEDs. ;)


That's about as meaningful as saying "The burden on the soldiers is not to be invading other countries and driving through their cities."

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Postby Buffett and Colbert » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:20 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Utvara wrote:The burden is on the occupying force to do everything they can to not slaughter civilians, not on civilians to avoid the hail of bullets. I hope this helps you out.


The burden on the civilians is not to be setting off IEDs. ;)

And the civilians that don't set off IEDs (and they're in the majority) can just go fuck themselves?
If the knowledge isn't useful, you haven't found the lesson yet. ~Iniika
You-Gi-Owe wrote:If someone were to ask me about your online persona as a standard of your "date-ability", I'd rate you as "worth investigating further & passionate about beliefs". But, enough of the idle speculation on why you didn't score with the opposite gender.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Buffett and Colbert wrote:Clever, but your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

His Jedi mind tricks are insignificant compared to the power of Buffy's sex appeal.
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Buffett and Colbert wrote:My law class took my virginity. And it was 100% consensual.

I accuse your precious law class of statutory rape.

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Postby Gift-of-god » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:20 am

Call to power wrote:
Gift-of-god wrote:In other words, kill anything that moves. Let god sort out the innocents.


Suppressive fire


If you were under the impression that I was unaware what suppressive fire was, or how it is being used in Iraq, please note that my definition seems to be confirmed by posts such as Panzerjaeger's.




Big Jim P wrote:I was not joking.


Now that's funny.




Panzerjaeger wrote:Meh he is talking out his arse apparently people don't have legs or common sense in the Third World anymore.


I find it ironic that you actually quote my text about transport infrastructure, and yet still choose to ignore it, while attacking my intelligence.

Perhaps this time you'll address it.
I am the very model of the modern kaiju Gamera
I've a shell that's indestructible and endless turtle stamina.
I defend the little kids and I level downtown Tokyo
in a giant free-for-all mega-kaiju rodeo.

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:21 am

Gift-of-god wrote:
Call to power wrote:
Gift-of-god wrote:In other words, kill anything that moves. Let god sort out the innocents.


Suppressive fire


If you were under the impression that I was unaware what suppressive fire was, or how it is being used in Iraq, please note that my definition seems to be confirmed by posts such as Panzerjaeger's.




Big Jim P wrote:I was not joking.


Now that's funny.




Panzerjaeger wrote:Meh he is talking out his arse apparently people don't have legs or common sense in the Third World anymore.


I find it ironic that you actually quote my text about transport infrastructure, and yet still choose to ignore it, while attacking my intelligence.

Perhaps this time you'll address it.


As long as you have legs, you have transport.
Hail Satan!
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Postby Panzerjaeger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:21 am

Buffett and Colbert wrote:These SOPs that are being issued are illegal and sick. But of course it's the trigger happy assholes who often seem to get to leadership positions in the army.

This SOP has been on the books since Vietnam so Boohoo. I don't see how one can cry about 360 degree of suppressive fire but then again this is NSG.
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Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!

Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"

New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.

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Utvara
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Postby Utvara » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:22 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Utvara wrote:The burden is on the occupying force to do everything they can to not slaughter civilians, not on civilians to avoid the hail of bullets. I hope this helps you out.


The burden on the civilians is not to be setting off IEDs. ;)


If you're setting off an IED, you're not a civilian. Or should all brown people be punished for the actions of a few?
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:22 am

Buffett and Colbert wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Utvara wrote:The burden is on the occupying force to do everything they can to not slaughter civilians, not on civilians to avoid the hail of bullets. I hope this helps you out.


The burden on the civilians is not to be setting off IEDs. ;)

And the civilians that don't set off IEDs (and they're in the majority) can just go fuck themselves?


No, they can GET DOWN, like I said in my first post. :roll:
Hail Satan!
Happily married to Roan Cara, The first RL NS marriage, and Pope Joan is my Father-in-law.
I edit my posts to fix typos.

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