The Problem about [Radical] Islam (especially to Turks)

[Kaumudeen]

Without running the risk of doxxing myself, I continue to remain where I am due to familial obligations. I also live in the only non-Muslim-majority state in the entire country. Things aren't as bad here as they are on the other side of the country across the South China Sea. But every now and then, something outrageous happens, like a Christian in my home state being sentenced to 10+ years in jail for "mocking Islam". There is also a small but hopefully growing pro-independence movement in my home state. That's something to keep an eye on. My country is also one of the more "moderate" Muslim-majority countries in existence, at least when compared to Iran or Pakistan.

So you live in Sarawak?

[Syndicasia]

* Any religion that achieved triumph in the Middle Ages is a cultural matrix of the medieval order - despotism, exploitation and scientific and technical backwardness. Adherents of such orders, ultra-right feudal reactionaries, are grouped around religions. Religion is not a "cultural feature", it is a reactionary ideology around which reactionary political groups arise. Such groups harm progress. The advanced philosophy is dialectical materialism, secularism, anti-clericalism. "Materialism must be militant", as V.I. Lenin rightly noted.

This is the correct position to have

[Bilancorn]

I mean, personally I have not a problem with ppl keeping their culture, including ofc religious beliefs, as long as:
1. Such beliefs are respectful of other beliefs.
2. Such beliefs respect the law and constitutional principle of the country.
3. Such beliefs are not anti-democratic and/or widely discriminatory against minorities, women etc. (example: I am perfectly fine with a Christian/Muslim saying that Gay couples are not families according to their personal belief, but i dont respect the opinion of someone who wants to put them to death). Same goes for someone, fo example, that advocates for removing the women rights to vote, as it would be anticonstitutional.

Personally, I'd say that most immigrants (many of which are muslims) in my country are respectful of those 3 factors and i'm ok with them. While the minority that disregard the country laws should be deported back to their country of origin, full stop.

I was mainly discussing Muslims in Muslim countries wanting to adopt Western values in a desperate attempt to be "European." But I agree with your points.

Well yeah thats equally pointless, I agree with you

[A m e n r i a]

The rise of Islam has contributed to the persecution, enslavement and genocide of non-Muslim infidels beginning in the 7th century. As a non-Muslim, I have a huge problem with that. There is no room for true equality or coexistence in Islam. You either submit or you die.

I WILL NOT SUBMIT. I will NEVER accept dhimmitude or annihilation.

We're talking about real Islam here, not whatever your mind concocts and calls Islam.

I was mainly discussing Muslims in Muslim countries wanting to adopt Western values in a desperate attempt to be "European." But I agree with your points.

Well yeah thats equally pointless, I agree with you

We should keep our ways and not adopt backwards ideas from worse parts of the world. If we're going to adopt foreign ideas, at least adopt Chinese ones.

[Grand Mecklenburg]

So, your form of Islam is still very strict morally, but carves out special exceptions for LGBT, or does it reject purity culture and have a more permissive, sex-positive attitude in general?

[The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2]

I've read through your thoughts here on your posts. I'm just trying to understand:

Would you come to the United States given the opportunity (free to come, free citizenship)?
Do you want to come to the US?

If not, could you please explain why?

Your issues seem to be pretty deep rooted in the culture of your area. There are other pretty "Western" socieities which you could also potentially move to. I'm just trying to understand the logic of living somewhere, where you objectively feel your rights are suppressed, if you do indeed have the option of moving abroad

Without running the risk of doxxing myself, I continue to remain where I am due to familial obligations. I also live in the only non-Muslim-majority state in the entire country. Things aren't as bad here as they are on the other side of the country across the South China Sea. But every now and then, something outrageous happens, like a Christian in my home state being sentenced to 10+ years in jail for "mocking Islam". There is also a small but hopefully growing pro-independence movement in my home state. That's something to keep an eye on. My country is also one of the more "moderate" Muslim-majority countries in existence, at least when compared to Iran or Pakistan.

Economic reasons are another factor. Everything everywhere is getting really expensive these days. Living in NYC is several times more expensive than living in, say, KL. I can relate to those, especially in the West, who feel cheated and let down by the system. That's a small part of the reason someone like Donald Trump appeals to me. But support for Israel in its struggle to defeat radical Islam and the Iranian Ayatollahs is the main reason for my support for Donald Trump.

I will also say that I have no desire to move to Europe due to the deteriorating social and economic situation there. Britain is becoming more and more authoritarian and illiberal with each passing day, and many Muslims in Europe are arguably even more extreme and intolerant than the Malay Muslims in my own country. Britain is becoming more and more like my own country in other words. That kind of defeats the whole point of moving there in the first place.

Besides these reasons, I will say no more.

What are your thoughts on moving to a stable, albeit different structurally defined societies (presume its free and you can take your whole family with you): Australia/New Zealand, China, South Korea, Japan, Denmark, or one of the Nordic Countries (Norway, Sweden, Finland).

I say this because I understand where you are coming from; but there are more options available to you than what the 'dystopian' feel of Great Britain and NYC are turning into (in parts). Categorically, you could even consider moving to the midwest, the south, southwest(not quite at California), or the Southeast (further towards Florida), or SouthEast coast (like the Carolina's). I think just saying 'NYC' is a bit of a misnomer, and kind of how MiddleEasterners see the US without actually being here. The US landmass is quite large, bordering on the entire EU

[Bilancorn]

The rise of Islam has contributed to the persecution, enslavement and genocide of non-Muslim infidels beginning in the 7th century. As a non-Muslim, I have a huge problem with that. There is no room for true equality or coexistence in Islam. You either submit or you die.

I WILL NOT SUBMIT. I will NEVER accept dhimmitude or annihilation.

We're talking about real Islam here, not whatever your mind concocts and calls Islam.

Well yeah thats equally pointless, I agree with you

We should keep our ways and not adopt backwards ideas from worse parts of the world. If we're going to adopt foreign ideas, at least adopt Chinese ones.

My point is that if you go in a Western country you can be a muslim indeed, but you cant apply sharia law (for example), as you have to respect the country laws and values. No one will force you to renounce your faith, but you have to respect the separation of powers between church(es) and state (which is not applied enough in some european countries, but thats another topic). As an opposite, if i recall correctly, some muslim countries (for example Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan) have serious punishments for atheism (for example): thats why I dont want to live there...

[Perishna]

Surprisingly, Islam was historically very chill compared to Europe. Several conquests were done peacefully and around the start of 1000 ac, the majority of Syria was christian. Generally jews and christians were considered as "people of the book" as islam has a more or less similar god and many of the same prophets (incl. Adanm, Abraham (Ibrahim) and Jesus (Isa)), but muslims saw them as someone whom practised a corrupt version of Abraham's original religion, so they were second-class citizens which wasnt bad considering the era and region (zoroasterists in Persia were prosecuting jews, buddhists and christians for "being with the evil"). During the islamic golden age things were also pretty good: Scientically, economically, etc.
Only in more modern times has Islam been the radical religion many know.

sorry for bad english if any

[Kreigsreich of Iron]

These times I see a lot of Islamophobic stuff. Especially as an Israel supporter who's coming from a radical pro-Palestine country (which is the Turkish Republic, aka the most west-like Muslim country). All of them want to get rid of our religion (they don't even call it that, they claim it's a death cult by cherrypicking disturbing images from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan etc) so bad, citing very bad things (child marriages, zero women/LGBTQ rights, plus them being murdered and covered head-to-toe), even saying «it's endorsed by verses from Quran». [I will continue this tommorow.]

It is a death cult. Ignoring its faith in some rando in the sky ready to give 77 virgins with some pretty disturbing subtexts here, the fact it’s behind mass terrorist activities (something no “mainstream” religion in history has had) is proof alone of this.

[Western European Khilafat]

It is a death cult. Ignoring its faith in some rando in the sky ready to give 77 virgins with some pretty disturbing subtexts here, the fact it’s behind mass terrorist activities (something no “mainstream” religion in history has had) is proof alone of this.

-Crusades
-Catholics burning Protestants
-Protestants burning Catholics
-Inquisition in general
Did Muslims do this?
The most common victim of "Muslim" terrorists attacks are... Muslims.

Just because a football player did something bad, does that invalidate the team itself?
Also, we get 4 and a half times more media coverage.
72 virgins is in a hadith i.e not an objective part of Islam.
It's a quote. Not in the Quran. If it makes no coherent sense, it's probably not true.
72 virgins- debatable- and this isn't promised for terror attackers, it's promised for those who die DEFENDING islam.
You don't say that Crusaders were terrorists (though you should)

[Repreteop]

I sincerely pray for those trapped under Sharia law.

[Concord Haven]

All religions used to have bad practices, although a lot of them have reformed, but Islam has not. The doesn't mean you can justify being islamophobic, though

[Repreteop]

It is a death cult. Ignoring its faith in some rando in the sky ready to give 77 virgins with some pretty disturbing subtexts here, the fact it’s behind mass terrorist activities (something no “mainstream” religion in history has had) is proof alone of this.

-Crusades
-Catholics burning Protestants
-Protestants burning Catholics
-Inquisition in general
Did Muslims do this?
The most common victim of "Muslim" terrorists attacks are... Muslims.

Just because a football player did something bad, does that invalidate the team itself?
Also, we get 4 and a half times more media coverage.
72 virgins is in a hadith i.e not an objective part of Islam.
It's a quote. Not in the Quran. If it makes no coherent sense, it's probably not true.
72 virgins- debatable- and this isn't promised for terror attackers, it's promised for those who die DEFENDING islam.
You don't say that Crusaders were terrorists (though you should)

does it make sense to you that heaven has all these somewhat sinful delights in islam. why should i be upstanding and against sin just to go to heaven and indulge in all sorts of immorality. that's whack to me, that's something that kind of bugged me with islam. i would rather go to a heaven without sin than one where i'm rewarded with all these things that would be sins on earth.

[Concord Haven]

I sincerely pray for those trapped under Sharia law.

yes it's very sad that this happens in the modern world

[Futurist State of Flassau]

-Crusades
-Catholics burning Protestants
-Protestants burning Catholics
-Inquisition in general
Did Muslims do this?
The most common victim of "Muslim" terrorists attacks are... Muslims.

Just because a football player did something bad, does that invalidate the team itself?
Also, we get 4 and a half times more media coverage.
72 virgins is in a hadith i.e not an objective part of Islam.
It's a quote. Not in the Quran. If it makes no coherent sense, it's probably not true.
72 virgins- debatable- and this isn't promised for terror attackers, it's promised for those who die DEFENDING islam.
You don't say that Crusaders were terrorists (though you should)

does it make sense to you that heaven has all these somewhat sinful delights in islam. why should i be upstanding and against sin just to go to heaven and indulge in all sorts of immorality. that's whack to me, that's something that kind of bugged me with islam. i would rather go to a heaven without sin than one where i'm rewarded with all these things that would be sins on earth.

Probably because for a long time "For you to go to Heaven" was a excuse for the Church to extort people.

[Repreteop]

does it make sense to you that heaven has all these somewhat sinful delights in islam. why should i be upstanding and against sin just to go to heaven and indulge in all sorts of immorality. that's whack to me, that's something that kind of bugged me with islam. i would rather go to a heaven without sin than one where i'm rewarded with all these things that would be sins on earth.

Probably because for a long time "For you to go to Heaven" was a excuse for the Church to extort people.

which church are we talking about. are we talking about the roman catholic church, of which i do not adhere, to, or the one true holy orthodox catholic church, which i do adhere to. my church has some whackjobs, like many do, but mine is not anywhere comparable to whatever church you're talking about.

[Kaldon]

I just love sitting here with my popcorn, watching the world burn. Keep talking about how the evil racist Muslims want to kill all the good, handsome people of the western world. Keep talking.

[Futurist State of Flassau]

Probably because for a long time "For you to go to Heaven" was a excuse for the Church to extort people.

which church are we talking about. are we talking about the roman catholic church, of which i do not adhere, to, or the one true holy orthodox catholic church, which i do adhere to. my church has some whackjobs, like many do, but mine is not anywhere comparable to whatever church you're talking about.

I'm pretty sure the Russian Government also cooporates with the Patriach of Moscow to make people have less resistance.

[Futurist State of Flassau]

I just love sitting here with my popcorn, watching the world burn. Keep talking about how the evil racist Muslims want to kill all the good, handsome people of the western world. Keep talking.

My brother in christ i think that sentence is racist

[Repreteop]

which church are we talking about. are we talking about the roman catholic church, of which i do not adhere, to, or the one true holy orthodox catholic church, which i do adhere to. my church has some whackjobs, like many do, but mine is not anywhere comparable to whatever church you're talking about.

I'm pretty sure the Russian Government also cooporates with the Patriach of Moscow to make people have less resistance.

Not to threadjack, but I do not adhere to the Russian Orthodox Church, so nice try.

[Trump Almighty]

Why are you two so desperate to be European? They will never accept us no matter how much we westernize.

Europe’s HDI and IHDI are both higher than the Middle East’s. And Turkey is a member of NATO, so the fact that we don’t accept them is a total lie

[El Lazaro]

I'm pretty sure the Russian Government also cooporates with the Patriach of Moscow to make people have less resistance.

Not to threadjack, but I do not adhere to the Russian Orthodox Church, so nice try.

My brother in Christ, you do not adhere to anything, you change religions on a weekly basis.

[El Lazaro]

Why are you two so desperate to be European? They will never accept us no matter how much we westernize.

Europe’s HDI and IHDI are both higher than the Middle East’s. And Turkey is a member of NATO, so the fact that we don’t accept them is a total lie

But Europeans are more racist than we are

[Repreteop]

Not to threadjack, but I do not adhere to the Russian Orthodox Church, so nice try.

My brother in Christ, you do not adhere to anything, you change religions on a weekly basis.

you are not inaccurate in calling me brother in christ, i have been going to orthodox church for almost 4 monthes.

i have been a catachumen for about 3

i will probably be baptized on christmas

you my friend have been played... its like nikocado avocado or whatever, two steps ahead...

[Perishna]

Europe’s HDI and IHDI are both higher than the Middle East’s. And Turkey is a member of NATO, so the fact that we don’t accept them is a total lie

But Europeans are more racist than we are

No were not. Muslims (those who have integreted and isnt radical) are well-regarded