Discussing Veganism

[Mossex]

I couldn't seem to find a thread like this, though it seems very obvious, so I figured I'd try creating one myself. This thread is made for discussions regarding veganism, the morality of veganism, or anything like. This thread was not made to explicitly hold one end of the spectrum, so please note that this is not a place where your opinions will go unjudged. Expect criticism. Want to avoid looking like a fool; check your messages before you send them.
Both sides of this topic have strong points. Veganism has been shown to have good consequences, just as it has been shown to have bad ones. The same could be said for anti-vegans.
Please remember that this thread was made for discusing VEGANISM NOT VEGETARIANISM. They are very different and should not be tread as the same.
Remember to stay civil to one another, even if you may disagree. We are all (semi-)mature humans, and we need to act like it. To avoid flaming/trolling, keep to the discussion at hand. You can judge the lifestyle, not the person. Thanks! ^^
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Beginning this discussion, I'd like to ask your opinions regarding what I like to affectionately call "generational vegansim". This can be defined as making your child not eat animal products, pushing your beliefs onto them. Generational veganism can have a genuine cause, such as one parent feeling uneasy about their child eating animal products around them. However, it can also be caused by parents who want their child to grow up being vegan as well. Most commonly both.
Do you think that raising your child like this is healthy/morally right? Or is it just another form of grooming? Is veganism "fine" for the human body, or is it an improvement? Should it be enforced? Should it be illegal? Share your thoughts below, and enjoy more debating!

[Futurist State of Flassau]

Veganism could cause the Child to grow up slower, otherwise its still pretty normal. However, pushing Veganism on other people and calling them a murderer otherwise is unacceptable.

And no, if Veganism was enforced anywhere nationally, people who cannot eat Vegan foods is gonna be screwed.

[Supurior]

In my opinion, It shouldn't be forced nor banned.

Now trespassing on a farm to free animals for veganism I think should be illegal

[The Galactic Authority of Progress]

It's hard to be healthy if you're vegan. It's possible for some, but you need to track your diet closely, it's a lot of effort.
Besides, I wouldn't become vegan just because dairy is really delicious. Though I don't eat much meat anyway, so I wouldn't mind giving that up and becoming vegetarian.

[Futurist State of Flassau]

In my opinion, It shouldn't be forced nor banned.

Now trespassing on a farm to free animals for veganism I think should be illegal

Its literally just Trespassing and Destruction of Property.

Just protest against a farm instead.

[Existential Cats]

Raising your children vegan is certainly far preferable to raising them on fast food and processed crap.

[Ambroscus Koth]

It's hard to be healthy if you're vegan. It's possible for some, but you need to track your diet closely, it's a lot of effort.

Been vegan for 3 years. Aside from a multivitamin that contains iron, I don't do anything special or track my diet, and I've had zero health issues. What are you basing this belief on? It comes up a fair bit and I'm not sure where folks get the idea.

[Ineva]

To quote... myself:

I respect veganism. I would probably switch to a vegan diet if it were more practical for the human body. I respect its moral position.

[Ambroscus Koth]

To quote... myself:

I respect veganism. I would probably switch to a vegan diet if it were more practical for the human body. I respect its moral position.

Again, what do you believe is "impractical" about a vegan diet? Is it somehow difficult to eat rice, legumes, fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc.? I refuse to believe it.

[The Galactic Authority of Progress]

It's hard to be healthy if you're vegan. It's possible for some, but you need to track your diet closely, it's a lot of effort.

Been vegan for 3 years. Aside from a multivitamin that contains iron, I don't do anything special or track my diet, and I've had zero health issues. What are you basing this belief on? It comes up a fair bit and I'm not sure where folks get the idea.

My mum tried to be vegan for a while and she thinks it gave her fatigue

[Ineva]

To quote... myself:

Again, what do you believe is "impractical" about a vegan diet? Is it somehow difficult to eat rice, legumes, fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc.? I refuse to believe it.

My main concern is the sources of protein. Yes, legumes and nuts are relatively reliable, but, I merely worry about access and quantity regarding those things.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Considering that Vegan diets lack essential nutrients, and supplements are not absorbed by the body as efficiently as nutrients from food, veganism is an absolutely dangerous dietary choice.

So no, one should NOT raise their children like that.

[Floofybit]

Veganism should be banned. I deserve all the fruit

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Been vegan for 3 years. Aside from a multivitamin that contains iron, I don't do anything special or track my diet, and I've had zero health issues. What are you basing this belief on? It comes up a fair bit and I'm not sure where folks get the idea.

My mum tried to be vegan for a while and she thinks it gave her fatigue

Lack of nutrients in a vegan diet. That's why.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Been vegan for 3 years. Aside from a multivitamin that contains iron, I don't do anything special or track my diet, and I've had zero health issues. What are you basing this belief on? It comes up a fair bit and I'm not sure where folks get the idea.

My mum tried to be vegan for a while and she thinks it gave her fatigue

Your mum should get bloodwork done instead of relying on a hunch. A blood test will tell you if you are deficient in important vitamins that are hard for vegans to naturally consume without supplements, such as Vitamin B12 and iron, which can lead to fatigue. Properly managing supplements is easy, affordable, and accessible.

Again, what do you believe is "impractical" about a vegan diet? Is it somehow difficult to eat rice, legumes, fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc.? I refuse to believe it.

My main concern is the sources of protein. Yes, legumes and nuts are relatively reliable, but, I merely worry about access and quantity regarding those things.

You're worried about access and quantity to peas, beans, lentils, and peanuts, which have a higher rate of protein for the cost than all meat? You shouldn't be.

[Ineva]

Veganism should be banned. I deserve all the fruit

Had not heard that reason yet. You make a compelling argument.

[Ambroscus Koth]

My mum tried to be vegan for a while and she thinks it gave her fatigue

Lack of nutrients in a vegan diet. That's why.

Feel free to explain which nutrients a vegan diet lacks. Remember that a proper vegan diet includes supplements.

[Ineva]

My main concern is the sources of protein. Yes, legumes and nuts are relatively reliable, but, I merely worry about access and quantity regarding those things.

You're worried about access and quantity to peas, beans, lentils, and peanuts, which have a higher rate of protein for the cost than all meat? You shouldn't be.

A higher rate, yes, but, even if proportional, the quantity of meat I eat now would be difficult to replicate with, say, peanuts. e.g., I can eat a container of chicken salad in about seven minutes. To eat an amount of peanuts of that same protein supply would be a good while longer, I imagine, and I would grow to resent them if on them is what I would be depending for however long.

[Ambroscus Koth]

You're worried about access and quantity to peas, beans, lentils, and peanuts, which have a higher rate of protein for the cost than all meat? You shouldn't be.

A higher rate, yes, but, even if proportional, the quantity of meat I eat now would be difficult to replicate with, say, peanuts. e.g., I can eat a container of chicken salad in about seven minutes. To eat an amount of peanuts of that same protein supply would be a good while longer, I imagine, and I would grow to resent them if on them is what I would be depending for however long.

Have you ever tried? I think you're just convincing yourself that you couldn't do it without ever really putting in the effort, assuming it would be something you grow to resent as opposed to growing to love. I was certainly struggling when I first went vegan, but I was fueled by the knowledge that my choices weren't causing unnecessary suffering to sentient creatures. Over time, I lost my taste and desire for meat. I no longer look at a chicken breast and see food, I just see a desecrated corpse.

My point is, you're framing a vegan meal in your mind all wrong, you aren't giving it a chance. You're comparing a chicken salad, a properly prepared dish, to a raw bag of peanuts. It might be worth trying to examine your subconscious biases and give some vegan recipes a try

[Futurist State of Flassau]

sorry i just don't like veganism because of the loud-mouthed vegans

[Ambroscus Koth]

sorry i just don't like veganism because of the loud-mouthed vegans

That's an interesting argument. If someone was staunchly against murder, and particularly vocal about it, would you roll your eyes and go "I'm sorry, but I just can't stand those murder-haters. Just like, let people kill each other, it would be so much less annoying to listen to."

[Ineva]

A higher rate, yes, but, even if proportional, the quantity of meat I eat now would be difficult to replicate with, say, peanuts. e.g., I can eat a container of chicken salad in about seven minutes. To eat an amount of peanuts of that same protein supply would be a good while longer, I imagine, and I would grow to resent them if on them is what I would be depending for however long.

Have you ever tried? I think you're just convincing yourself that you couldn't do it without ever really putting in the effort, assuming it would be something you grow to resent as opposed to growing to love. I was certainly struggling when I first went vegan, but I was fueled by the knowledge that my choices weren't causing unnecessary suffering to sentient creatures. Over time, I lost my taste and desire for meat. I no longer look at a chicken breast and see food, I just see a desecrated corpse.

My point is, you're framing a vegan meal in your mind all wrong, you aren't giving it a chance. You're comparing a chicken salad, a properly prepared dish, to a raw bag of peanuts. It might be worth trying to examine your subconscious biases and give some vegan recipes a try

Eh, perhaps I am just making excuses, but, seeing how limited my diet already is, imagining it without chicken is especially difficult. Milk, too. Aside from the lifestyle changes, making up for those natural sources of protein and calcium I reckon would be far more challenging than it is for me today. As another poster here has mentioned, too, I do not want to subject my child to that without regard for her desire and health.

In short, perhaps when I am living alone and can devote the time and energy to a vegan diet and accompanying aspects of lifestyle, I will pursue it. Currently, though, I do not think I am at a place in my life where I can do that whilst maintaining good health and balance.

Edit: I can try some vegan recipes, though. I do eat vegan dishes inadvertently quite often.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Lack of nutrients in a vegan diet. That's why.

Feel free to explain which nutrients a vegan diet lacks. Remember that a proper vegan diet includes supplements.

I was referring to it without those supplements.

Many people who try the main diet itself don't realize those requirements. Also, you might not have an issue since you know what you are doing, but vitamin supplements are less efficiently absorbed by the body than vitamins from food, which can potentially cause a problem for those who do not realize they're taking an insufficient amount of vitamins as a result.

You can eat how you want of course, but this also strikes me as pointless, on top of the two things I mentioned.

[Maryani]

The idea of veganism is pretty extreme. Despite some vegans idea about being vegan actually means saving live of the world , I don't pretty much agree. As if the world actually becomes vegan there are consequenses yet to come :

1. The nutrients of meat is important of our human evolution, as it provides our brain to be more smarter and able to be surviving in condition of living in wilderness back in pre historical times. So if we become vegan now for many years, our succesors may become more less smarter than it's predecessor (present day us). Plus, Buddha himself is not against meat eating and ate meat too.

2. Overpopulation risk of animals. As if we just stop the balance of production of meat and let them go at fields, they can breed and have more producing risks of carbon emissions caused by animals like cows. Unless if they are willing to prefofm sterilization. But I doubt they won't want to do so, because I belive they think animals have rights to breed and make children. But they do not think of consequences of overpopulation of animals.

3. Going vegan, won't it stop global warming? Of course not. Global warming mostly comes from mass forest cutting, power generation and manufacture industries , and growing crops even would let out many of carbon emissions. The forests that to absorb it's carbons gone from the cuttings.

4. Malnutrition. If we go vegan, we would be malnourished without benefits of meat nutrition.


However, if Vegans really want to change the world for the better , here are steps to achive :
1. Produce technology that can create food with the benefits of meat eating
2. Prevent the eventual detructions of forests by replanting seeds for them to grow and prevent illegal forest damagings by contacting your local authorities.
3. Produce any means of technology that can prevent carbon emmisions by means of transport, industrial productions factories, and also to grow crops.
4. Do not force people to go vegan, and even slander meat eatings . You all be best to promote your actions about your actions can change the world for better.
5. If all steps work, and eventually meat industries would be less desired, preform selective sterilization to prevent animal overpopulation in the future

[Reploid Productions]

Lack of nutrients in a vegan diet. That's why.

Feel free to explain which nutrients a vegan diet lacks. Remember that a proper vegan diet includes supplements.

I think that's my main concern, particularly regarding vegan parents pushing it on their kids. There are far too many people who attempt to go vegan like it's merely a diet fad who erroneously seem to think that means if all they eat is salads and fruits they'll be fine; I imagine those ignorant would-be vegans are the source of the popular stereotype of vegan malnourishment. As you've pointed out, that's absolutely NOT how it works. Bad enough to do that to a grown adult, but that sort of ignorance has far more serious and lasting impacts on a developing child.

As for veganism as a whole, my only beef with it are the also-stereotypical super-obnoxious preachy minority of them who try to tell me what I should or shouldn't eat or try to guilt trip me. I'm not gonna tell a vegan to eat a damn bacon-wrapped filet mignon, just let me enjoy my slab of dead cow in peace. Fortunately, those are a minority; most vegans I've knowingly encountered have been perfectly decent sorts of the "eat and let eat" mentality.