2023-24 Israel-Hamas-Hezbollah-Iran-Houthi Conflict

[Reploid Productions]

Damn... 11 months later hasbara is still hasbaring...

This motherfucker filibustering hasbara again goddamn. Fuck imperialist zioscum

Damn, 5 months later and rulebreaker comes right back breaking rules. Got sidetracked reviewing the warn history.

*** Liberalici, DEAT + 1 month ban for flaming. ***

[Fahran]

Farhan, when will you admit Senkaku was right about Blinken actively ignoring US law?

I'm not certain a dispute between Blinken and Power, one reflecting deeper rifts within the State Department, is conclusive proof of Blinken or Biden actively ignoring US law. Especially when the remedies thus far proposed have been almost entirely legislative and we have often uncertain or contradictory commentary from people on the ground. I'll respond at length eventually, and highlight the portions of the article that cast some doubt on the characterization of the legal situation.

[Senkaku]

Farhan, when will you admit Senkaku was right about Blinken actively ignoring US law?

I'm not certain a dispute between Blinken and Power, one reflecting deeper rifts within the State Department, is conclusive proof of Blinken or Biden actively ignoring US law. Especially when the remedies thus far proposed have been almost entirely legislative and we have often uncertain or contradictory commentary from people on the ground. I'll respond at length eventually, and highlight the portions of the article that cast some doubt on the characterization of the legal situation.

(Compression: “NEVER!”)

[Ifreann]

As a correction, the IDF has begun ground offensives into southern Lebanon which it claims are apparently more in the nature of small-scale raids.

Just a three day special military operation, in and out.

[Spirit of Hope]

Farhan, when will you admit Senkaku was right about Blinken actively ignoring US law?

I'm not certain a dispute between Blinken and Power, one reflecting deeper rifts within the State Department, is conclusive proof of Blinken or Biden actively ignoring US law. Especially when the remedies thus far proposed have been almost entirely legislative and we have often uncertain or contradictory commentary from people on the ground. I'll respond at length eventually, and highlight the portions of the article that cast some doubt on the characterization of the legal situation.

I'm curious to see how community service is an appropriate punishment for killing an unarmed man. Though I guess that would be consistent with how the US handles police violence. As I previously mentioned, the Leahy Committee for Israel has recommended units not receive aid from the US as a sanction for their human rights violations. Bliken has either not taken action or refused to deny aid to units that the committee said were violating human rights.

[Porotia]

"Liberalici, DEAT + 1 month ban for flaming."

I know this isn't relevant to the thread but what does DEAT mean?

[La Xinga]

"Liberalici, DEAT + 1 month ban for flaming."

I know this isn't relevant to the thread but what does DEAT mean?

this thread may be valuable

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

(Compression: “NEVER!”)

No, no, illegal terrorism only demands a decisive response when it's the Palestinians doing it, don't you get it?

When it's our allies the Jews that are doing it we should stall and quibble with half-measures for as long as necessary for that terrorism to achieve its intended political objectives, and afterwards we can make a performative show of saying how sad all this was.

[Senkaku]

It's not an anti-genocide movement. It's a pro-Palestinian movement,

You are a slanderer and a sophist. At long last, madam, have you no decency?

[Imperializt Russia]

Same as every other time Israel attacked Lebanon Hezbollah, right?

Yes. The sad thing is that it seems that innocent civilians are being killed. If Lebanon cooperated with Israel better I am convinced that there would be less civilian deaths.

How can you genuinely think like this. I find it quite upsetting.

This is IM-levels of brainworms.

Also something everyone fails to realise is that all of the support for hezbollah in lebanon is not manifested in the form of direct votes for hezbollah, but people that have voted for groups closely aligned to hezbollah like the Amal Movement (Shia), FPM (Christian Maronite) and Marada Movement (Christian Maronite) are also voting in favour of hezbollah. They have a significant chunk of the lebanese people on their side. So there is quite a bit of support for hezbollah in the nation (im not saying there is a majority) and it could well have increased after yet another Israeli attack upon Lebanon's sovereign territory.

This is a very useful insight, thank you for sharing.

"Hezbollah and allies", as defined by Wikipedia, got 40% of the votes at the last Lebanese election, but on a 50% turnout, that's only 20% of the electorate. Most people would rather stay home than vote Hezbollah, and the disapora just don't bother, that's just a fact.

[Fahran]

You are a slanderer and a sophist. At long last, madam, have you no decency?

I don't need to engage in slander or sophistry when you keep supporting the "lesser evil", refusing to engage with salient critiques of your worldview, and pretending that you occupy some moral high ground. Your perspective really isn't any more complex than Glorious Freedonia's.

I'll make this simple for you. A movement that has serious problems with racism, whose spearheading organizations spent months celebrating genocide and crimes against humanity or white-washing those things, and whose members are currently crying over a genocidaire getting blown-up isn't an anti-genocide movement. It's a movement that opposes one genocide and supported/supports, at least tacitly, another.

Acting like dubious participants in an ethnic conflict are something other than dubious participants in an ethnic conflict isn't going to fool anyone when I pull up their posts about resistance or the genocide denial they have been engaging in for months.

They aren't even an anti-war movement. They were all for violent resistance and war before it started getting people they like killed. They're a pro-Palestinian movement. Nothing wrong with that, but let's stop pretending they're something else. Because they aren't.

No, no, illegal terrorism only demands a decisive response when it's the Palestinians doing it, don't you get it?

Neither of y'all supported a decisive response to illegal terrorism or genocide on October 8th.

[SusScorfa]

You are a slanderer and a sophist. At long last, madam, have you no decency?

I don't need to engage in slander or sophistry when you keep supporting the "lesser evil", refusing to engage with salient critiques of your worldview, and pretending that you occupy some moral high ground. Your perspective really isn't any more complex than Glorious Freedonia's.

I'll make this simple for you. A movement that has serious problems with racism, whose spearheading organizations spent months celebrating genocide and crimes against humanity or white-washing those things, and whose members are currently crying over a genocidaire getting blown-up isn't an anti-genocide movement. It's a movement that opposes one genocide and supported/supports, at least tacitly, another.

Acting like dubious participants in an ethnic conflict are something other than dubious participants in an ethnic conflict isn't going to fool anyone when I pull up their posts about resistance or the genocide denial they have been engaging in for months.

They aren't even an anti-war movement. They were all for violent resistance and war before it started getting people they like killed. They're a pro-Palestinian movement. Nothing wrong with that, but let's stop pretending they're something else. Because they aren't.

See, the thing is, change the crying over to celebrating, and you could as well be describing Zionism.

[Fahran]

See, the thing is, change the crying over to celebrating, and you could as well be describing Zionism.

Zionists are participants in the Jewish-Arab Conflict. I'm not pretending that they aren't or that the majority of Zionists care about genocide in Palestine. There's a reason I haven't been marching with the sorts of people who put together pro-Netanyahu rallies either. It'd make it look like I support them.

[Senkaku]

No, no, illegal terrorism only demands a decisive response when it's the Palestinians doing it, don't you get it?

Neither of y'all supported a decisive response to illegal terrorism or genocide on October 8th.

And looking back on the past year, thank god that the “decisive” response you called for then and cheered for through its early days has come through. What a boon for Israeli security and regional tranquility your decisiveness has been!

[Elwher]

If we had terrorists in the USA and Canada helped us get rid of them, we would say thank you. We may be embarrassed that we did not do it all on our own though.

If Canada started bombing the US, the US would respond in kind. It's embarrassingly detached from reality of you to insist otherwise.

If the FLQ started firing rockets at the US and Canada either would not or could not do anything about it, the US would take action. Not to do so would be banding its obligations to its own citizens being attacked.

[Fahran]

And looking back on the past year, thank god that the “decisive” response you called for then and cheered for through its early days has come through. What a boon for Israeli security and regional tranquility your decisiveness has been!

Alright then. You two gentleman may argue about whether or not a decisive response to terrorism or genocide is ever needed or not.

[Senkaku]

There's a reason I haven't been marching with the sorts of people who put together pro-Netanyahu rallies either. It'd make it look like I support them.

Ultra-Zionist in the sheets, apathetic in the streets? Get some brat merch and you’ll be the regime girlies’ regime girlie.

[Fahran]

If the FLQ started firing rockets at the US and Canada either would not or could not do anything about it, the US would take action. Not to do so would be banding its obligations to its own citizens being attacked.

The idea that the US, UK, or France wouldn't invade a neighbor that was permitting persistent terrorist attacks against their civilians just is not supported by the available history.

[Infected Mushroom]

From a look at the news headlines, it appears that a USA-backed Israeli Empire is expanding militarily in the region.

[Senkaku]

From a look at the news headlines, it appears that a USA-backed Israeli Empire is expanding militarily in the region.

I hate when you lucidpost

[Fahran]

Ultra-Zionist in the sheets, apathetic in the streets? Get some brat merch and you’ll be the regime girlies’ regime girlie.

You believe that every nationalist is an ultra-nationalist except when you're pretending that some nationalists are actually inoffensive liberals. So this is not a particularly meaningful jab.

Sorry. I ain't supporting your problematic coalition of Arab nationalists, Anti-Zionists, and socialists, hon.

I hate when you lucidpost

The fact that you're agreeing with the guy who perhaps purposefully supports every bad foreign policy take should make you scratch your head a little bit.

I mean... You should maybe have done that when you began recycling QAnon conspiracy theories, but here we are.

[SusScorfa]

See, the thing is, change the crying over to celebrating, and you could as well be describing Zionism.

Zionists are participants in the Jewish-Arab Conflict. I'm not pretending that they aren't or that the majority of Zionists care about genocide in Palestine. There's a reason I haven't been marching with the sorts of people who put together pro-Netanyahu rallies either. It'd make it look like I support them.

Fair enough, I get the discussion was about protests and participation in them, or association with certain organizations. I mean I have no association with any of the things you are talking, but when I criticize Zionism I'm told that I need to look to my own house and deal with the problems of the larger pro-Palestinian movement. I'd think it fair, that you can criticize Palestine and pro-Palestine movements as a Zionist in todays world without having accounted for the crimes of the broader Zionist movement beforehand, you should also be allowed to critique Israel and Zionism without having to account for the crimes of the other side.

[Fahran]

Fair enough, I get the discussion was about protests and participation in them, or association with certain organizations. I mean I have no association with any of the things you are talking, but when I criticize Zionism I'm told that I need to look to my own house and deal with the problems of the larger pro-Palestinian movement. I'd think it fair, that you can criticize Palestine and pro-Palestine movements as a Zionist in todays world without having accounted for the crimes of the broader Zionist movement beforehand, you should also be allowed to critique Israel and Zionism without having to account for the crimes of the other side.

I do not disagree with that assessment.

But the initial question is why I'm not marching with Arab nationalists, Islamists, Anti-Zionists, and a subset socialists if I'm sincere in my critiques of the Israeli state? My answer is that I don't actually agree with those people with regard to the big picture and view their movement as actively hostile to my community in many instances.

The idea that they're an innocuous anti-genocide or anti-war movement also isn't accurate, no more than claiming that more organized pro-Zionist activism after October 7th was simply anti-genocide or anti-war.

As it happens, I do think there is a lot to criticize within the Zionist movement, both today and historically, but any effort to focus on that always seems to invite these odd struggle sessions or low-effort bait about Hasbara and zio-scum. I'm a nationalist and a Zionist, somewhat reluctantly, but that doesn't mean I'm not apprehensive of the sometimes inherent flaws underpinning nationalist ideologies.

[Spirit of Hope]

If the FLQ started firing rockets at the US and Canada either would not or could not do anything about it, the US would take action. Not to do so would be banding its obligations to its own citizens being attacked.

The idea that the US, UK, or France wouldn't invade a neighbor that was permitting persistent terrorist attacks against their civilians just is not supported by the available history.

You are of course correct, the US did invaded a country that allowed terrorists to train within them who then attacked the US. It then spent 20 years in a quagmire of trying to nation build in the nation it destroyed while being distracted by illegally invading a separate country. This all resulted in more Americans dying fighting terrorism than died to terrorists at home and destabilized the region in ways we are still dealing with.

It was a great strategy executed flawlsy that definitely made Americans safer. /s

As I have said previously I have no problem with Israel responding to the terrorists that are attacking it, it is the manner in which Israel is responding that is both illegal under international law and counter productive to achieving a lasting peace.

[Fahran]

As I have said previously I have no problem with Israel responding to the terrorists that are attacking it, it is the manner in which Israel is responding that is both illegal under international law and counter productive to achieving a lasting peace.

I agree with this on a fundamental level. Especially because, as I have said repeatedly at this point, it's becoming increasingly obvious that, much like Bush, Netanyahu doesn't have a tenable exit strategy or vision for peace.