2023-24 Israel-Hamas-Hezbollah-Iran-Houthi Conflict

[Port Carverton]

Not having any elections since then is also a bad thing.

Immediately after Palestine had its first democratic elections, two colonies invaded them.

Which colonies?

[Khardsland]

Immediately after Palestine had its first democratic elections, two colonies invaded them.

Which colonies?

The United States of America and the Zionist colony.

[Imperializt Russia]

Whataboutism, the favorite accusation of the Western chauvanist. Its funny how "good countries" can get away with genocide so long as their opponents do a terrorism.

I can't remember if you're the fellow I had to explain the concept of basic democracy to, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was. Nevertheless, you can stick with your revisionist schtick, but it doesn't dampen the fact that Israel's military operation in Gaza was spurred by a horrific terror attack that violated its sovereignty as a functioning democracy.

Which... doesn't justify the actions it is taking in a different territory, largely explicitly off the back of that.

so democracies can get a free pass to do whatever they want because they're the "good guys"?

Certainly not. However, being cheerleaders for a terrorist regime and the right for a terror state (Hamas-led Gaza) to exist is appalling.

This is literally a whataboutism.

[Post War America]

I can't remember if you're the fellow I had to explain the concept of basic democracy to, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was. Nevertheless, you can stick with your revisionist schtick, but it doesn't dampen the fact that Israel's military operation in Gaza was spurred by a horrific terror attack that violated its sovereignty as a functioning democracy.

Which... doesn't justify the actions it is taking in a different territory, largely explicitly off the back of that.

Certainly not. However, being cheerleaders for a terrorist regime and the right for a terror state (Hamas-led Gaza) to exist is appalling.

This is literally a whataboutism.

Its only whataboutism when the you point out the bad things the West does. When its targetted at the "axis of evil" its just good old fashioned pointing out hypocrisy.

[Glorious Freedonia]

I do not understand why there would be a ceasefire deal. Here in the USA, the government does not enter into a negotiation between criminals and police.

[Alvecia]

I do not understand why there would be a ceasefire deal. Here in the USA, the government does not enter into a negotiation between criminals and police.

I get where you're coming from, and this is very "um ackshually " but the government (read, police) do negotiate with criminals in certain circumstances, such as plea deals or hostage negotiations.

[Post War America]

I do not understand why there would be a ceasefire deal. Here in the USA, the government does not enter into a negotiation between criminals and police.

I get where you're coming from, and this is very "um ackshually " but the government (read, police) do negotiate with criminals in certain circumstances, such as plea deals or hostage negotiations.

Hostage negotiations you say? Isn't it interesting that one of the major stated objectives was recovery of hostages?

[Kubra]

I do not understand why there would be a ceasefire deal. Here in the USA, the government does not enter into a negotiation between criminals and police.

Well guess which national government has been pushing for a ceasefire deal here

[Liberal Malaysia]

Iran Finances U.S. Campus Protests: Top Intel Official

A top U.S. intelligence official revealed that the Iranian government is providing financial support for the anti-Israel demonstrations that have roiled American college campuses and seen the use of antisemitic rhetoric.

A leading Iran expert and Trump-administration alumnus, Gabriel Noronha, told National Review that it’s a “welcome, if overdue” acknowledgement of Iran’s political-influence operations by the Biden administration, which has otherwise sought to accommodate Tehran.

The revelation came in an unusual press release today. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said: “We have observed actors ties to Iran’s government posing as activists online, seeking to encourage protests, and even providing financial support for protesters.” This, Haines wrote, came in the context of Iranian-regime actors “opportunistically” taking advantage of the protests.

She also said that she issued her statement as “the first of what will be regular updates” about election-interference threats from foreign countries.

Iran’s leaders have openly cheered the anti-Israel student movement, which saw the formation of encampments on numerous college campuses, including Columbia University’s, this past spring. The protests involved the use of antisemitic language, including calls to “globalize the intifada.”

Iran’s brutal dictator, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the demonstrators were part of “the right side of history” and went as far as to claim them as part of Iran’s ambitions for global Islamist revolution.

“You have now formed a branch of the Resistance Front and have begun an honorable struggle in the face of your government’s ruthless pressure — which openly supports Zionists,” Khamenei posted on X. Khamanei and other regime officials call the global network of terrorist groups they fund the “axis of resistance,” and the supreme leader’s post about the U.S. demonstrators suggests that he regards their efforts to be linked to operations by Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Iranian proxies.

Congressional Republicans have launched several investigations into the financing behind the demonstrations.

Haines also said that Iran’s financing of the protests does not mean that all of their participants are linked to Tehran.

“I want to be clear that I know Americans who participate in protests are, in good faith, expressing their views on the conflict in Gaza — this intelligence does not indicate otherwise. Moreover, the freedom to express diverse views, when done peacefully, is essential to our democracy, but it is also important to warn of foreign actors who seek to exploit our debate for their own purposes,”

She added that Americans targeted by the operation might not know that they’re interacting with a foreign regime and that people should “remain vigilant as they engage online with accounts and actors they do not personally know.”

Haines’s statement is significant because it is the first time that the U.S. government has confirmed that Iran has had a direct hand in fueling the campus movement.

“Director Haines’ statement is a welcome if overdue turning point in the Biden administration, whose officials initially repeated and amplified Iranian state narratives but are now increasingly waking up to the many threats posed by the regime,” said Noronha, who worked on Iran policy at the State Department and is now a fellow at the Jewish Institute for National Security of America.

Noronha also pointed to long-running Iranian influence efforts that sought to shape Western public opinion and elite decision-making: “This has long been known and exposed by close Iran watchers, while simultaneously denied by those who welcomed the Iranian narratives.”

President Biden’s special envoy for Iran, Robert Malley, was connected to an Iranian influence network that was exposed by media reporting last year. He was reportedly suspended amid a State Department probe into his handling of classified materials, an investigation that has involved the FBI.

The intelligence community had previously warned about Iranian efforts to influence American elections in its annual threat assessment, pointing to operations in 2020 to steal voter info, promote election disinformation, and send “threatening emails.”

That report found: “The same Iranian actors have evolved their activities and developed a new set of techniques, combining cyber and influence capabilities, that Iran could deploy during the U.S. election cycle in 2024.”

Wasn't sure where to post this as it's only marginally related to the Israel-Hamas conflict. I suppose I should cross-post the article to the Israel-Hamas thread. The pro-Hamas antisemitic hate rallies are being deliberately orchestrated and carefully choreographed by hostile foreign state actors such as Iran, as the article states, and by China through TikTok's algorithm. They're a coordinated, inauthentic and foreign-backed psyop in other words.

[Zurkerx]

US is cautiously optimistic that a ceasefire could be reached between Hamas and Israel. There are still some gaps, but the US believes they can be narrowed. Whether the Israelis want that (specifically Bibi) is anyone's guess, but given the man is feeling ever growing pressure, he's going to have to give, one way or the other.

[Kubra]

Iran Finances U.S. Campus Protests: Top Intel Official

A top U.S. intelligence official revealed that the Iranian government is providing financial support for the anti-Israel demonstrations that have roiled American college campuses and seen the use of antisemitic rhetoric.

A leading Iran expert and Trump-administration alumnus, Gabriel Noronha, told National Review that it’s a “welcome, if overdue” acknowledgement of Iran’s political-influence operations by the Biden administration, which has otherwise sought to accommodate Tehran.

The revelation came in an unusual press release today. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said: “We have observed actors ties to Iran’s government posing as activists online, seeking to encourage protests, and even providing financial support for protesters.” This, Haines wrote, came in the context of Iranian-regime actors “opportunistically” taking advantage of the protests.

She also said that she issued her statement as “the first of what will be regular updates” about election-interference threats from foreign countries.

Iran’s leaders have openly cheered the anti-Israel student movement, which saw the formation of encampments on numerous college campuses, including Columbia University’s, this past spring. The protests involved the use of antisemitic language, including calls to “globalize the intifada.”

Iran’s brutal dictator, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the demonstrators were part of “the right side of history” and went as far as to claim them as part of Iran’s ambitions for global Islamist revolution.

“You have now formed a branch of the Resistance Front and have begun an honorable struggle in the face of your government’s ruthless pressure — which openly supports Zionists,” Khamenei posted on X. Khamanei and other regime officials call the global network of terrorist groups they fund the “axis of resistance,” and the supreme leader’s post about the U.S. demonstrators suggests that he regards their efforts to be linked to operations by Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Iranian proxies.

Congressional Republicans have launched several investigations into the financing behind the demonstrations.

Haines also said that Iran’s financing of the protests does not mean that all of their participants are linked to Tehran.

“I want to be clear that I know Americans who participate in protests are, in good faith, expressing their views on the conflict in Gaza — this intelligence does not indicate otherwise. Moreover, the freedom to express diverse views, when done peacefully, is essential to our democracy, but it is also important to warn of foreign actors who seek to exploit our debate for their own purposes,”

She added that Americans targeted by the operation might not know that they’re interacting with a foreign regime and that people should “remain vigilant as they engage online with accounts and actors they do not personally know.”

Haines’s statement is significant because it is the first time that the U.S. government has confirmed that Iran has had a direct hand in fueling the campus movement.

“Director Haines’ statement is a welcome if overdue turning point in the Biden administration, whose officials initially repeated and amplified Iranian state narratives but are now increasingly waking up to the many threats posed by the regime,” said Noronha, who worked on Iran policy at the State Department and is now a fellow at the Jewish Institute for National Security of America.

Noronha also pointed to long-running Iranian influence efforts that sought to shape Western public opinion and elite decision-making: “This has long been known and exposed by close Iran watchers, while simultaneously denied by those who welcomed the Iranian narratives.”

President Biden’s special envoy for Iran, Robert Malley, was connected to an Iranian influence network that was exposed by media reporting last year. He was reportedly suspended amid a State Department probe into his handling of classified materials, an investigation that has involved the FBI.

The intelligence community had previously warned about Iranian efforts to influence American elections in its annual threat assessment, pointing to operations in 2020 to steal voter info, promote election disinformation, and send “threatening emails.”

That report found: “The same Iranian actors have evolved their activities and developed a new set of techniques, combining cyber and influence capabilities, that Iran could deploy during the U.S. election cycle in 2024.”

Wasn't sure where to post this as it's only marginally related to the Israel-Hamas conflict. I suppose I should cross-post the article to the Israel-Hamas thread. The pro-Hamas antisemitic hate rallies are being deliberately orchestrated and carefully choreographed by hostile foreign state actors such as Iran, as the article states, and by China through TikTok's algorithm. They're a coordinated, inauthentic and foreign-backed psyop in other words.

hey remember this bit

I want to be clear that I know Americans who participate in protests are, in good faith, expressing their views on the conflict in Gaza — this intelligence does not indicate otherwise. Moreover, the freedom to express diverse views, when done peacefully, is essential to our democracy, but it is also important to warn of foreign actors who seek to exploit our debate for their own purposes

[Ifreann]

Iran Finances U.S. Campus Protests: Top Intel Official

A top U.S. intelligence official revealed that the Iranian government is providing financial support for the anti-Israel demonstrations that have roiled American college campuses and seen the use of antisemitic rhetoric.

A leading Iran expert and Trump-administration alumnus, Gabriel Noronha, told National Review that it’s a “welcome, if overdue” acknowledgement of Iran’s political-influence operations by the Biden administration, which has otherwise sought to accommodate Tehran.

The revelation came in an unusual press release today. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said: “We have observed actors ties to Iran’s government posing as activists online, seeking to encourage protests, and even providing financial support for protesters.” This, Haines wrote, came in the context of Iranian-regime actors “opportunistically” taking advantage of the protests.

She also said that she issued her statement as “the first of what will be regular updates” about election-interference threats from foreign countries.

Iran’s leaders have openly cheered the anti-Israel student movement, which saw the formation of encampments on numerous college campuses, including Columbia University’s, this past spring. The protests involved the use of antisemitic language, including calls to “globalize the intifada.”

Iran’s brutal dictator, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the demonstrators were part of “the right side of history” and went as far as to claim them as part of Iran’s ambitions for global Islamist revolution.

“You have now formed a branch of the Resistance Front and have begun an honorable struggle in the face of your government’s ruthless pressure — which openly supports Zionists,” Khamenei posted on X. Khamanei and other regime officials call the global network of terrorist groups they fund the “axis of resistance,” and the supreme leader’s post about the U.S. demonstrators suggests that he regards their efforts to be linked to operations by Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Iranian proxies.

Congressional Republicans have launched several investigations into the financing behind the demonstrations.

Haines also said that Iran’s financing of the protests does not mean that all of their participants are linked to Tehran.

“I want to be clear that I know Americans who participate in protests are, in good faith, expressing their views on the conflict in Gaza — this intelligence does not indicate otherwise. Moreover, the freedom to express diverse views, when done peacefully, is essential to our democracy, but it is also important to warn of foreign actors who seek to exploit our debate for their own purposes,”

She added that Americans targeted by the operation might not know that they’re interacting with a foreign regime and that people should “remain vigilant as they engage online with accounts and actors they do not personally know.”

Haines’s statement is significant because it is the first time that the U.S. government has confirmed that Iran has had a direct hand in fueling the campus movement.

“Director Haines’ statement is a welcome if overdue turning point in the Biden administration, whose officials initially repeated and amplified Iranian state narratives but are now increasingly waking up to the many threats posed by the regime,” said Noronha, who worked on Iran policy at the State Department and is now a fellow at the Jewish Institute for National Security of America.

Noronha also pointed to long-running Iranian influence efforts that sought to shape Western public opinion and elite decision-making: “This has long been known and exposed by close Iran watchers, while simultaneously denied by those who welcomed the Iranian narratives.”

President Biden’s special envoy for Iran, Robert Malley, was connected to an Iranian influence network that was exposed by media reporting last year. He was reportedly suspended amid a State Department probe into his handling of classified materials, an investigation that has involved the FBI.

The intelligence community had previously warned about Iranian efforts to influence American elections in its annual threat assessment, pointing to operations in 2020 to steal voter info, promote election disinformation, and send “threatening emails.”

That report found: “The same Iranian actors have evolved their activities and developed a new set of techniques, combining cyber and influence capabilities, that Iran could deploy during the U.S. election cycle in 2024.”

Wasn't sure where to post this as it's only marginally related to the Israel-Hamas conflict. I suppose I should cross-post the article to the Israel-Hamas thread. The pro-Hamas antisemitic hate rallies are being deliberately orchestrated and carefully choreographed by hostile foreign state actors such as Iran, as the article states, and by China through TikTok's algorithm. They're a coordinated, inauthentic and foreign-backed psyop in other words.

hey remember this bit

I want to be clear that I know Americans who participate in protests are, in good faith, expressing their views on the conflict in Gaza — this intelligence does not indicate otherwise. Moreover, the freedom to express diverse views, when done peacefully, is essential to our democracy, but it is also important to warn of foreign actors who seek to exploit our debate for their own purposes

Clearly the Director is working for Hamas, under the direction of Iran. Nothing else explains how she could deny that Iran is in control of every protest.

[Nu Elysium]

Iran Finances U.S. Campus Protests: Top Intel Official

Wasn't sure where to post this as it's only marginally related to the Israel-Hamas conflict. I suppose I should cross-post the article to the Israel-Hamas thread. The pro-Hamas antisemitic hate rallies are being deliberately orchestrated and carefully choreographed by hostile foreign state actors such as Iran, as the article states, and by China through TikTok's algorithm. They're a coordinated, inauthentic and foreign-backed psyop in other words.

Hamas antisemitic hate rallies

Not affiliated with Hamas, not antisemitic, not helping your point at all.

deliberately orchestrated and carefully choreographed by hostile foreign state actors such as Iran

Nope. All the article is is one guy, (who used to work under Trump) claiming that they found "ties" from the activists to Iran. It is not "deliberately orchestrated" or "carefully choreographed" in any sense.

China through TikTok's algorithm

Neither China nor TikTok are mentioned anywhere within the article, so I'm honestly baffled as to where you pulled that from. It's also completely false

They're a coordinated, inauthentic and foreign-backed psyop in other words.

In other words, everything you just said was completely wrong. You really should try reading past the headline of the articles that you link.

[Kubra]

Nope. All the article is is one guy, (who used to work under Trump) claiming that they found "ties" from the activists to Iran. It is not "deliberately orchestrated" or "carefully choreographed" in any sense.

Not quite. The claim actually comes from current Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines. A former Trump official is getting a soundbyte because, well, this *is* the National Review.

[Danternoust]

Wasn't sure where to post this as it's only marginally related to the Israel-Hamas conflict. I suppose I should cross-post the article to the Israel-Hamas thread. The pro-Hamas antisemitic hate rallies are being deliberately orchestrated and carefully choreographed by hostile foreign state actors such as Iran, as the article states, and by China through TikTok's algorithm. They're a coordinated, inauthentic and foreign-backed psyop in other words.

Don't have a China thread either I don't think. We could use something named the "Thucydides Trap: Red China".



https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cger582weplo

Palestinians living abroad have accused Microsoft of closing their email accounts without warning - cutting them off from crucial online services.

They say it has left them unable to access bank accounts and job offers - and stopped them using Skype, which Microsoft owns, to contact relatives in war-torn Gaza.
Microsoft says they violated its terms of service - a claim they dispute.

Hamas is probably extensively using Skype for their chain of command, which means that messages are being intercepted, which means that maybe Mossad is requesting Microsoft to kick Palestianians off their platform.

[Death by Rock and Roll]

I get where you're coming from, and this is very "um ackshually " but the government (read, police) do negotiate with criminals in certain circumstances, such as plea deals or hostage negotiations.

Hostage negotiations you say? Isn't it interesting that one of the major stated objectives was recovery of hostages?

This whole hostage issue wouldn't even be happening if governments stopped disarming the people. If these hostages had weapons, and if truly left to the free market they could get some pretty effective ones, they could've been able to defend themselves, or at least of made kidnapping them something far more risky and costly. Really so much of this carnage boils down to the state monopoly on violence, if this was just a struggle between individual and/or groups of settlers and individual and/or Palestinians there would be far less carnage, or at least the carnage would be more mutual which would cause far more pressure to resolve things; individuals find ways to figure things out, the state and it's military-industrial complex and it's bureaucracy and corruption just makes everything so much bigger and so much more complicated than it needs to be. Without the state there would be so much less property destruction as well, because people have an interest in the value of those cities and villages and buildings whereas the state has the resources to be able to leave ruins.

[Danternoust]

Hostage negotiations you say? Isn't it interesting that one of the major stated objectives was recovery of hostages?

This whole hostage issue wouldn't even be happening if governments stopped disarming the people. If these hostages had weapons, and if truly left to the free market they could get some pretty effective ones, they could've been able to defend themselves, or at least of made kidnapping them something far more risky and costly. Really so much of this carnage boils down to the state monopoly on violence, if this was just a struggle between individual and/or groups of settlers and individual and/or Palestinians there would be far less carnage, or at least the carnage would be more mutual which would cause far more pressure to resolve things; individuals find ways to figure things out, the state and it's military-industrial complex and it's bureaucracy and corruption just makes everything so much bigger and so much more complicated than it needs to be. Without the state there would be so much less property destruction as well, because people have an interest in the value of those cities and villages and buildings whereas the state has the resources to be able to leave ruins.

The state monopoly on violence works only if the state protects residents and tourists from attack. There were plans and early warning indicators, there is evidence that Mossad has a wide view into Hamas' operations. Instead of dismantling Hamas, there is a massive ground war in a heavily urbanized area.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/16/worl ... tacks.html

The ledgers, pilfered from the computer of a senior Hamas official, listed assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Hamas controlled mining, chicken farming and road building companies in Sudan, twin skyscrapers in the United Arab Emirates, a property developer in Algeria, and a real estate firm listed on the Turkish stock exchange.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

[Post War America]

Hostage negotiations you say? Isn't it interesting that one of the major stated objectives was recovery of hostages?

This whole hostage issue wouldn't even be happening if governments stopped disarming the people. If these hostages had weapons, and if truly left to the free market they could get some pretty effective ones, they could've been able to defend themselves, or at least of made kidnapping them something far more risky and costly. Really so much of this carnage boils down to the state monopoly on violence, if this was just a struggle between individual and/or groups of settlers and individual and/or Palestinians there would be far less carnage, or at least the carnage would be more mutual which would cause far more pressure to resolve things; individuals find ways to figure things out, the state and it's military-industrial complex and it's bureaucracy and corruption just makes everything so much bigger and so much more complicated than it needs to be. Without the state there would be so much less property destruction as well, because people have an interest in the value of those cities and villages and buildings whereas the state has the resources to be able to leave ruins.

I mean, I get it, I'm not unsympathetic to anarchist viewpoints myself. However, the reality is that we live in a world with states and pretending those states don't exist is not a particularly useful thing to do.

[Glorious Freedonia]

I just read that a bunch more people were killed because one of the Hamas scumbags who participated in the October 7 atrocities was hiding out in a civilian area. He caused a bunch of kids to die. Not like he cared because he was evil, but still.

[Vrbo]

I just read that a bunch more people were killed because one of the Hamas scumbags who participated in the October 7 atrocities was hiding out in a civilian area. He caused a bunch of kids to die. Not like he cared because he was evil, but still.

You could post a source.

[Kaumudeen]

Arabs just aren't good at democracy

As if the West is any better? Most Western countries are glorified oligarchies.

[Ifreann]

I just read that a bunch more people were killed because one of the Hamas scumbags who participated in the October 7 atrocities was hiding out in a civilian area. He caused a bunch of kids to die. Not like he cared because he was evil, but still.

So you heard that Israel killed some children and then abandoned reality immediately to avoid acknowledging their responsibility.

[El Lazaro]

I just read that a bunch more people were killed because one of the Hamas scumbags who participated in the October 7 atrocities was hiding out in a civilian area. He caused a bunch of kids to die. Not like he cared because he was evil, but still.

I just read that Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu has murdered like fifteen thousand children. Not that any of his supporters care because the kids were Arabs, but still.

[USHALLNOTPASS]

I just read that a bunch more people were killed because one of the Hamas scumbags who participated in the October 7 atrocities was hiding out in a civilian area. He caused a bunch of kids to die. Not like he cared because he was evil, but still.

I just read that a bunch of people were killed or taken hostage because Israeli authorities gave the greenlight for a concert outside of an occupied territory. They caused a bunch of young people to die. Not like they cared, because they were evil, but still.

[Dakran]

I do not understand why there would be a ceasefire deal. Here in the USA, the government does not enter into a negotiation between criminals and police.

I get where you're coming from, and this is very "um ackshually " but the government (read, police) do negotiate with criminals in certain circumstances, such as plea deals or hostage negotiations.

I'm pretty sure we've negotiated with the Taliban a few times in the past as well...