Major Stabbing In Sydney- POSSIBLY target women-read updates

[Australian rePublic]

All the American gun nuts have taken the oppertunity to use this as "see someone could have shot him", but the only shooting was when the policewoman shot the perpetrator after refusing her rdemands to drop the knife. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if (more) guns were involved?

If the guy with the bollard had a gun instead it might have helped a bit, unless the police mistakenly thought he was a threat and shot him too.

What actually happened- a man stabs people, a highly trained copper shoots the man, the situation ends quickly, no collateral damage,

What would have happened if (more) guns were involved

If the victims had a gun, the perpetrator would have had a gun. The perpetrator starts shooting people, automatically increasing the body count, by default given, how much easier it is to shoot someone then stab them. Now the victims have guns, that’s great, how many of them would have used the gun? Now one of the victims starts shooting the wrong person. Now the wrong person starts shooting back. Now everyone’s shooting everbody else, and the police have to use even more force and try to determine who was the original gunman and who’s just shooting in self-defence. Now you’ve just caused a shit ton of collateral damage.

[The Apollonian Systems]

From the guy who tried to detain the killer with a bollard to the policewoman who shot him before any more blood was shed to the people who administed CPR (including a Bondi Beach lifeguard from the world famous TV show that happened to be shopping there at the time) to the group of strangers who took care of the baby whilst the mother was stabbed, the list of heros at Bondi Junction yesturday is heartening and a silverlining to all this shit

If you have nut jobs going around killing people by definition you do not have a utopia or perfect society. There is no utopian society on the planet and if you think Australia has own you are sorely mistaken.

There was no monatery motivation for the stabbing, the guy didn't appear to be poor. He was just a nut with a knife who was known to police. In which case, your options are:

1. Harsher prison sentances
2. Have had him locked up in the loony bin for life
3. A lobotomy
4. Banning knives (which is already the case)

Which of those would be preferable for a utopian society? And investing in mental illness wouldn't have prevented this



UPDATE: The guy was suffering from Schizophrenia. Short of locking him up in a mental institution, there really wasn't much we could do about it. In retrospect, he probably should have been in a mental institution, but I'd like to know what you would have done. Short of curing schizophrenia or locking up all schiophrenics for life, there's not really much that can be done

Banning knives is literally fucking impossible. Any sharp object is a knife. Knives ar literally older than Homo sapiens.

Lobotomies don’t solve shit, and unless you lobotomize literally everyone it wouldn’t stop this. Harsher prison sentences don’t stop shit like this either. A better mental healthcare system is what is need, not fucking sticking ice picks in peoples eyes to literally scramble their brains or banning technology which is millions of years old.

[The Apollonian Systems]

You can't really prevent randomn acts like this. Very difficult at the very least.

My point exactly. Tell that to Apollonia

Are you just illiterate? That’s literally what I’m saying. It’s impossible to actually make sure that these attacks never happen. Humans are just too easy to kill and there’s always going to be fuck wads who kill for one reason or another.

Frankly we’re just lucky the guy didn’t drive a car through a crowd and kill even more people.

[The Apollonian Systems]

All the American gun nuts have taken the oppertunity to use this as "see someone could have shot him", but the only shooting was when the policewoman shot the perpetrator after refusing her rdemands to drop the knife. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if (more) guns were involved?

Yah he might have been shot earlier.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

All the American gun nuts have taken the oppertunity to use this as "see someone could have shot him", but the only shooting was when the policewoman shot the perpetrator after refusing her rdemands to drop the knife. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if (more) guns were involved?

If the guy with the bollard had a gun instead it might have helped a bit, unless the police mistakenly thought he was a threat and shot him too.

But then if the perpetrator had a gun instead of a knife, the guy with the bollard would have just been shot.

[Australian rePublic]

From the guy who tried to detain the killer with a bollard to the policewoman who shot him before any more blood was shed to the people who administed CPR (including a Bondi Beach lifeguard from the world famous TV show that happened to be shopping there at the time) to the group of strangers who took care of the baby whilst the mother was stabbed, the list of heros at Bondi Junction yesturday is heartening and a silverlining to all this shit


There was no monatery motivation for the stabbing, the guy didn't appear to be poor. He was just a nut with a knife who was known to police. In which case, your options are:

1. Harsher prison sentances
2. Have had him locked up in the loony bin for life
3. A lobotomy
4. Banning knives (which is already the case)

Which of those would be preferable for a utopian society? And investing in mental illness wouldn't have prevented this



UPDATE: The guy was suffering from Schizophrenia. Short of locking him up in a mental institution, there really wasn't much we could do about it. In retrospect, he probably should have been in a mental institution, but I'd like to know what you would have done. Short of curing schizophrenia or locking up all schiophrenics for life, there's not really much that can be done

Banning knives is literally fucking impossible. Any sharp object is a knife. Knives ar literally older than Homo sapiens.

Lobotomies don’t solve shit, and unless you lobotomize literally everyone it wouldn’t stop this. Harsher prison sentences don’t stop shit like this either. A better mental healthcare system is what is need, not fucking sticking ice picks in peoples eyes to literally scramble their brains or banning technology which is millions of years old.

Banning knives is impossible. Unless steaks, fruits and veggies come precut and needlessly waste plastic

My point exactly. Tell that to Apollonia

Are you just illiterate? That’s literally what I’m saying. It’s impossible to actually make sure that these attacks never happen. Humans are just too easy to kill and there’s always going to be fuck wads who kill for one reason or another.

Frankly we’re just lucky the guy didn’t drive a car through a crowd and kill even more people.

Sorry you confused me when you kept suggesting that we need to improve society

All the American gun nuts have taken the oppertunity to use this as "see someone could have shot him", but the only shooting was when the policewoman shot the perpetrator after refusing her rdemands to drop the knife. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if (more) guns were involved?

Yah he might have been shot earlier.

Or you know, 10 different people had a gun trying to shoot the bastard but he got misindified and the wrong person with the gun gets shot, or the gun misfired and the wrong person got shot. Meanwhile the bastard, even though he was shot earlier, was capable of shooting upto 100 people or so from further away in a much quicker time interval. You know, that's also a possibility. Ay lwast this way, he actually had to go up to his victims, (rather than shooting at them from far away) and it's hard to misindenify the only guy with a fucking 50 centimetre (19.7 inch) knife

[Vassenor]

Banning knives is literally fucking impossible. Any sharp object is a knife. Knives ar literally older than Homo sapiens.

Lobotomies don’t solve shit, and unless you lobotomize literally everyone it wouldn’t stop this. Harsher prison sentences don’t stop shit like this either. A better mental healthcare system is what is need, not fucking sticking ice picks in peoples eyes to literally scramble their brains or banning technology which is millions of years old.

Banning knives is impossible. Unless steaks, fruits and veggies come precut and needlessly waste plastic

Are you just illiterate? That’s literally what I’m saying. It’s impossible to actually make sure that these attacks never happen. Humans are just too easy to kill and there’s always going to be fuck wads who kill for one reason or another.

Frankly we’re just lucky the guy didn’t drive a car through a crowd and kill even more people.

Sorry you confused me when you kept suggesting that we need to improve society

Yah he might have been shot earlier.

Or you know, 10 different people had a gun trying to shoot the bastard but he got misindified and the wrong person with the gun gets shot, or the gun misfired and the wrong person got shot. Meanwhile the bastard, even though he was shot earlier, was capable of shooting upto 100 people or so from further away in a much quicker time interval. You know, that's also a possibility. Ay lwast this way, he actually had to go up to his victims, (rather than shooting at them from far away) and it's hard to misindenify the only guy with a fucking 50 centimetre (19.7 inch) knife

This is what always makes me laugh about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" - how are the police going to tell who the Good Guy is? How do the other Good Guys tell who is a Good Guy?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Banning knives is impossible. Unless steaks, fruits and veggies come precut and needlessly waste plastic



Sorry you confused me when you kept suggesting that we need to improve society


Or you know, 10 different people had a gun trying to shoot the bastard but he got misindified and the wrong person with the gun gets shot, or the gun misfired and the wrong person got shot. Meanwhile the bastard, even though he was shot earlier, was capable of shooting upto 100 people or so from further away in a much quicker time interval. You know, that's also a possibility. Ay lwast this way, he actually had to go up to his victims, (rather than shooting at them from far away) and it's hard to misindenify the only guy with a fucking 50 centimetre (19.7 inch) knife

This is what always makes me laugh about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" - how are the police going to tell who the Good Guy is? How do the other Good Guys tell who is a Good Guy?

Cuz the good guy usually isn't blasting random people and if there is a good guy with a gun there the bad guy is probably already dead. This happens many times per year, it's not some outlandish conspiracy.

[Singaporen Empire]

We're so lucky that a police was on duty there, or else the guy would have gotten the chance to ruthlessly murder even more innocent people.

This rarely happens in Australia though...

[Australian rePublic]

This is what always makes me laugh about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" - how are the police going to tell who the Good Guy is? How do the other Good Guys tell who is a Good Guy?

Cuz the good guy usually isn't blasting random people and if there is a good guy with a gun there the bad guy is probably already dead. This happens many times per year, it's not some outlandish conspiracy.

Again, if 6 men have guns out, how does anyone determine which one is the bad guy and that the other 5 are meerly trying to be a good guy with a gun? No, a good guy with a gun isn't going to intentionally shoot random people, but it is very easy to make a mistake, especially if you're in a stressful situation that you're not trained for. You can have all the gun training you like, it isn't going to stop you from getting stressed. Only seasoned soldiers and police officers are trained for that. If your average civilian had access to guns and was capable of shooting it with inoressive precision, it's not going to stop them from making mistakes. The last thing you want is someone who is extremely stressed shooting a gun in a situation they're not trained for. Unless we give all civilians military/police style training, then mistakes are inedvidable.

Put it this way. There's an unknown number of gunmen at my local mall. I see you running around with a gun. How am I meant to know whether you're a gunman or someone who intends to shoot the gunman? Seriously, you have to answer that first question. So you see me pull out my gun in an attempt to shoot you. So what do you do? You shoot me so I don't shoot you. Now two innocents have accidently shot each otther whilst the perperator got away. Now the police are wasting their resources interviewing us about why we shot each other, instead of going after the gunman. Now, the police see 6 people holding guns, but there is only one offender. The other five are walking around in an attempt to shoot him. How do the police identify who the offender is and who the other 5 innocents are? Especially if the total number of offenders is unknown. As far as the police are concerned, all six potentially innocents and all six are potentially the perpetrator/s. Contrast this with the stabbing where the only guy with the large knife is obviously the perpetrator. Knowing that anyone with a weapon is likely a perpetrator makes everyone's life easier, as opposed to not knowing the perpetrator status of someone with a weapon. And that's assuming that a good guy with a gun even has time to draw his weapon before he himself is shot.

And again, if the perpetrator had a gun, he could shoot people from a longer distance than he can stab them. Instead of stabbing one person every minute, he could have potentially killed 15 in that time period, from much further distance, meaning that by the time the good guy with a gun has interfered, more people have become victims.

And all this is assuming that everyone acts rationally in the first place, which no, no we don't. Especially in a chaotic situation. There are countless people who think they would cower out of a situation but end up being the heros, whilst others who think they would do XYZ in a situation actaully freeze and do nothing. The later are obvioulsy the ones more likely to have a gun thibking that they'd use it. You can talk a big game about a good guy with a gun, but if the good guy with a gun doesn't use the.gun, then it's useless. And even then, you're assuming that people would use the gun correctly, which no. Even if you do shoot the gun with good intentions, in a chaotic, stressful environment, mistakes will happen, and the last thing you need in this situation is an accidental bloodbath caused by people with good intentions who accidently caused collateral damage under pressure. Mistakes will happen. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of how many dozen. The more mistakes, the worse the collateral damage. You don't want to increase the death toll due to several dozen genuine mistakes. You don't want to intesify the bloodbath due to error

The other alternative is to give everybody military training, which raises a whole other question about conscription for the purposes of these rare events. But even then it doesn't address the other problems that I mentioned

I'm sorry my friend, but guns would have made this problem worse.

You mentioned that there have been situations where a good guy with a gun has stopped someone in such a situation. Well, name one

[The Apollonian Systems]

This is what always makes me laugh about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" - how are the police going to tell who the Good Guy is? How do the other Good Guys tell who is a Good Guy?

Cuz the good guy usually isn't blasting random people and if there is a good guy with a gun there the bad guy is probably already dead. This happens many times per year, it's not some outlandish conspiracy.

Nah this can’t be true, everyone knows that touching a gun immediately makes you into a mass murdering lunatic. Surely no one has ever defended themselves with a gun ever. /s

[Vassenor]

Cuz the good guy usually isn't blasting random people and if there is a good guy with a gun there the bad guy is probably already dead. This happens many times per year, it's not some outlandish conspiracy.

Nah this can’t be true, everyone knows that touching a gun immediately makes you into a mass murdering lunatic. Surely no one has ever defended themselves with a gun ever. /s

If you're going to make a strawman, at least make it vaguely close to what I was actually saying.

[The Apollonian Systems]

Banning knives is literally fucking impossible. Any sharp object is a knife. Knives ar literally older than Homo sapiens.

Lobotomies don’t solve shit, and unless you lobotomize literally everyone it wouldn’t stop this. Harsher prison sentences don’t stop shit like this either. A better mental healthcare system is what is need, not fucking sticking ice picks in peoples eyes to literally scramble their brains or banning technology which is millions of years old.

Banning knives is impossible. Unless steaks, fruits and veggies come precut and needlessly waste plastic

There are people who seriously suggest banning knives, especially ones with points. Thing is that’s it’s useless. They can’t even keep knives, even just handheld ones out of prisons, or would be impossible to keep them out of the general population.

Are you just illiterate? That’s literally what I’m saying. It’s impossible to actually make sure that these attacks never happen. Humans are just too easy to kill and there’s always going to be fuck wads who kill for one reason or another.

Frankly we’re just lucky the guy didn’t drive a car through a crowd and kill even more people.

Sorry you confused me when you kept suggesting that we need to improve society

Ok? That doesn’t mean I think that these attacks will never happen. I’m literally saying that a utopia is impossible.

Yah he might have been shot earlier.

Or you know, 10 different people had a gun trying to shoot the bastard but he got misindified and the wrong person with the gun gets shot, or the gun misfired and the wrong person got shot. Meanwhile the bastard, even though he was shot earlier, was capable of shooting upto 100 people or so from further away in a much quicker time interval. You know, that's also a possibility. Ay lwast this way, he actually had to go up to his victims, (rather than shooting at them from far away) and it's hard to misindenify the only guy with a fucking 50 centimetre (19.7 inch) knife

Yah even if all of that was true instead of a knee jerk reaction to the idea of defending yourself with a gun, I’d still rather have a gun to defend myself with than whatever blunt object is around me at the moment.

And the guy could’ve gotten a vehicle and driven it through a crowd and kill just as much as any mass shooting, if not more.

Like it or not but guns are one of the best tools out there to defend yourself. Hell it’s not even just the US that let’s you carry a gun to defend yourself, multiple European countries allow you to do so as well.

[The Apollonian Systems]

Nah this can’t be true, everyone knows that touching a gun immediately makes you into a mass murdering lunatic. Surely no one has ever defended themselves with a gun ever. /s

If you're going to make a strawman, at least make it vaguely close to what I was actually saying.

Well then I don’t see how police could mistake you for a mass murderer otherwise. And I’ve seen you make more than your fair share of strawmen before so you’re one to talk.

[Vassenor]

If you're going to make a strawman, at least make it vaguely close to what I was actually saying.

Well then I don’t see how police could mistake you for a mass murderer otherwise. And I’ve seen you make more than your fair share of strawmen before so you’re one to talk.

So if the police have a report of active shooters in the area, how will they know when they arrive that you aren't one of the suspects if you're wandering around with a gun drawn?

[The Apollonian Systems]

Well then I don’t see how police could mistake you for a mass murderer otherwise. And I’ve seen you make more than your fair share of strawmen before so you’re one to talk.

So if the police have a report of active shooters in the area, how will they know when they arrive that you aren't one of the suspects if you're wandering around with a gun drawn?

Yah that’s not what tends to happen in a defensive shooting. Generally people are smart enough to realize that once the threat is neutralized they shouldn’t be walking around gun drawn.

Otherwise every defensive shooting in the US would end in getting shot by famously trigger happy American cops, which is doesn’t.

[Vassenor]

So if the police have a report of active shooters in the area, how will they know when they arrive that you aren't one of the suspects if you're wandering around with a gun drawn?

Yah that’s not what tends to happen in a defensive shooting. Generally people are smart enough to realize that once the threat is neutralized they shouldn’t be walking around gun drawn.

Otherwise every defensive shooting in the US would end in getting shot by famously trigger happy American cops, which is doesn’t.

"This would totally never happen honest" is not a good answer.

[Kaumudeen]

Well then I don’t see how police could mistake you for a mass murderer otherwise. And I’ve seen you make more than your fair share of strawmen before so you’re one to talk.

So if the police have a report of active shooters in the area, how will they know when they arrive that you aren't one of the suspects if you're wandering around with a gun drawn?

Police put out a description of the shooter. Which helps mitigate any risk that a defensive shooter gets killed.

[The Two Jerseys]

This is what always makes me laugh about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" - how are the police going to tell who the Good Guy is? How do the other Good Guys tell who is a Good Guy?

Cuz the good guy usually isn't blasting random people and if there is a good guy with a gun there the bad guy is probably already dead. This happens many times per year, it's not some outlandish conspiracy.

Remember that church shooting in Texas where the entire congregation mistakenly shot each other because they didn't know who the bad buy was?

Me neither.

[Vassenor]

So if the police have a report of active shooters in the area, how will they know when they arrive that you aren't one of the suspects if you're wandering around with a gun drawn?

Police put out a description of the shooter. Which helps mitigate any risk that a defensive shooter gets killed.

And how do they know that's the only offensive shooter?

[The Apollonian Systems]

Yah that’s not what tends to happen in a defensive shooting. Generally people are smart enough to realize that once the threat is neutralized they shouldn’t be walking around gun drawn.

Otherwise every defensive shooting in the US would end in getting shot by famously trigger happy American cops, which is doesn’t.

"This would totally never happen honest" is not a good answer.

And you accuse me of making strawmen. I said it rarely happens, not that it would never happen.

[Australian rePublic]

So if the police have a report of active shooters in the area, how will they know when they arrive that you aren't one of the suspects if you're wandering around with a gun drawn?

Police put out a description of the shooter. Which helps mitigate any risk that a defensive shooter gets killed.

By the time the police identify the assailant, much less commuticate the identity to everyone, it's far too late

[Australian rePublic]

The perpetrator's father had informed the police that his son (the perp) had illegally aquired 12 USA army knives, and he informed the Queensland state police, who did nothing about it. He also said that everyone saw him as a monster but he saw his son as a sick boy who desperately needed help that no one wanted to give him. Mental institutions across Australia have been closed due to a combo of funding and not wanting to detain people, but this may change in the future.

It's unknown whether or not he was specifically targetting women, but his father said he was disgrunteled at his lack of a girlfriend. The man with a bollard who tried to stop him from stabbing more people is a Frenchman who's visa was due to expire next month, but as his first good move as prime minister, Anthony Albanese said he can stay in Australia as long as he pleases

[Australian rePublic]

By the way, since many of you know that my family and I live in Sydney, if anyone is interested, most of my family and friends mostly accounted for, though my sister was there the day before and she's started having nightmares about it. My friend told me she has friends who working there on the day, but they managed to all get out okay. Fortunately she herself wasn't involved nor her family. If anyone else or their loved ones were in Sydney at the time, please keep us updated

[Kaztropol]

bunch of politically-motivated twitter trolls were naming random other people, in a bid to stir up ethnic/religious violence.