Mosque by Ground Zero?

[Shazbotdom]

I say just build the damn thing, and if any of these "Patriotic Americans" who are claiming that it is incensitive have a problem with it, then they can move away.

[Katganistan]

I say just build the damn thing, and if any of these "Patriotic Americans" who are claiming that it is incensitive have a problem with it, then they can move away.

Amen.

[Gauthier]

I say just build the damn thing, and if any of these "Patriotic Americans" who are claiming that it is incensitive have a problem with it, then they can move away.

Amen.

And they can get a taste of what they've been heaping on the Muslims for close to a decade on top of that:

GROW A THICKER SKIN.

[Callisdrun]

Which isn't Christianity or Islam. Seriously, though, most Christians and Muslims I've met are ordinary people. I see fundamentalism in any ideology as a problem.

I think the problem is ideologies which allow for 'fundamentalist' views. Seems in some ideologies those doors are wide open.

There are extremists in many, even most ideologies.

[The Celestial Union]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

What law are these people breaking? None. OH having the mosque a few blocks from Ground Zero might be a provocation.

Since when does Al Qaeda 'provoke' through _non_ violent symbolic acts.??? Name one.

Just about every act Al Qaeda has committed was designed to cause as much damage as possible. Their goal is to intimidate through violence to force others to what they want.

Al Qaeda and it's ilk should be opposed. They have and do pose a clear and present danger. The difference here is that in order to stop a terrorist group. you have to analyze it carefully. Find out whatever you can. and target it's leadership.

Analyze ,not demonize. operating from the premise that all Muslims are in league with Al Qaeda you make the search for the threat -harder- Historically the best way to defeat a guerrilla ,insurgent ,or terrorist movement
is to alienate the population from the insurgents.

Imposing mass punishments on the civilian population will alienate them from =your= side. They will be more willing to aid the enemy if they feel they are assumed to be doing so and are treated unjustly. The enemy can move like a fish in the sea amongst innocents.

If you can drive a wedge between the bulk of Muslims and the extremists, it becomes much easier to deal with Al Qaeda. If Muslims,or any other group feel they are being treated fairly and are not being persecuted for religion etc. they have absolutely no reason to support the extremists.
Keep in mind that the mosque being established is not a Wahhabi or extreme version of Islam.


The principal goal of Al Qaeda and it's 'franchises' is to force the West out of the Middle east. Then to create an Islamic Caliphate.
Al Qaeda's leadership intends to run the caliphate or control who ever does.

I mentioned this in an earlier post Sources listed there. .Wahhabism is not a part of mainstream Islam. The Islamic group that intended to build the mosque are not Wahhabis. Islam doesn't have the hierarchy that Catholicism or other religions have. Which means that there are multiple denominations with differing branches or denominations. Sunni,Shia,Sufi and others I don't' know about

Wahhabism is an offshoot from the Sunni branch.
Al Qaeda is a twig on an offshoot of Wahhabism
So far out that the weight of the nuts broke the twig off the tree.

[Gauthier]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

What law are these people breaking? None. OH having the mosque a few blocks from Ground Zero might be a provocation.

Since when does Al Qaeda 'provoke' through _non_ violent symbolic acts.??? Name one.

Just about every act Al Qaeda has committed was designed to cause as much damage as possible. Their goal is to intimidate through violence to force others to what they want.

Al Qaeda and it's ilk should be opposed. They have and do pose a clear and present danger. The difference here is that in order to stop a terrorist group. you have to analyze it carefully. Find out whatever you can. and target it's leadership.

Analyze ,not demonize. operating from the premise that all Muslims are in league with Al Qaeda you make the search for the threat -harder- Historically the best way to defeat a guerrilla ,insurgent ,or terrorist movement
is to alienate the population from the insurgents.

Imposing mass punishments on the civilian population will alienate them from =your= side. They will be more willing to aid the enemy if they feel they are assumed to be doing so and are treated unjustly. The enemy can move like a fish in the sea amongst innocents.

If you can drive a wedge between the bulk of Muslims and the extremists, it becomes much easier to deal with Al Qaeda. If Muslims,or any other group feel they are being treated fairly and are not being persecuted for religion etc. they have absolutely no reason to support the extremists.
Keep in mind that the mosque being established is not a Wahhabi or extreme version of Islam.


The principal goal of Al Qaeda and it's 'franchises' is to force the West out of the Middle east. Then to create an Islamic Caliphate.
Al Qaeda's leadership intends to run the caliphate or control who ever does.

I mentioned this in an earlier post Sources listed there. .Wahhabism is not a part of mainstream Islam. The Islamic group that intended to build the mosque are not Wahhabis. Islam doesn't have the hierarchy that Catholicism or other religions have. Which means that there are multiple denominations with differing branches or denominations. Sunni,Shia,Sufi and others I don't' know about

Wahhabism is an offshoot from the Sunni branch.
Al Qaeda is a twig on an offshoot of Wahhabism
So far out that the weight of the nuts broke the twig off the tree.

A very detailed explanation. Too bad he's still in love with the "All Muslims Are Evil and Violent and this was according to their religious decree" hype.

[The Celestial Union]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

What law are these people breaking? None. OH having the mosque a few blocks from Ground Zero might be a provocation.

Since when does Al Qaeda 'provoke' through _non_ violent symbolic acts.??? Name one.

Just about every act Al Qaeda has committed was designed to cause as much damage as possible. Their goal is to intimidate through violence to force others to what they want.

Al Qaeda and it's ilk should be opposed. They have and do pose a clear and present danger. The difference here is that in order to stop a terrorist group. you have to analyze it carefully. Find out whatever you can. and target it's leadership.

Analyze ,not demonize. operating from the premise that all Muslims are in league with Al Qaeda you make the search for the threat -harder- Historically the best way to defeat a guerrilla ,insurgent ,or terrorist movement
is to alienate the population from the insurgents.

Imposing mass punishments on the civilian population will alienate them from =your= side. They will be more willing to aid the enemy if they feel they are assumed to be doing so and are treated unjustly. The enemy can move like a fish in the sea amongst innocents.

If you can drive a wedge between the bulk of Muslims and the extremists, it becomes much easier to deal with Al Qaeda. If Muslims,or any other group feel they are being treated fairly and are not being persecuted for religion etc. they have absolutely no reason to support the extremists.
Keep in mind that the mosque being established is not a Wahhabi or extreme version of Islam.


The principal goal of Al Qaeda and it's 'franchises' is to force the West out of the Middle east. Then to create an Islamic Caliphate.
Al Qaeda's leadership intends to run the caliphate or control who ever does.

I mentioned this in an earlier post Sources listed there. .Wahhabism is not a part of mainstream Islam. The Islamic group that intended to build the mosque are not Wahhabis. Islam doesn't have the hierarchy that Catholicism or other religions have. Which means that there are multiple denominations with differing branches or denominations. Sunni,Shia,Sufi and others I don't' know about

Wahhabism is an offshoot from the Sunni branch.
Al Qaeda is a twig on an offshoot of Wahhabism
So far out that the weight of the nuts broke the twig off the tree.

A very detailed explanation. Too bad he's still in love with the "All Muslims Are Evil and Violent and this was according to their religious decree" hype.

Maybe it was too long. Bottom line is tat the property was acqwired for said purpose -before= 2001. It cannot be a provocation.

Religious opinins or none. that fact largely shoots down the whoel provocation thing.

[The Black Forrest]

It is interesting to hear people argue this is wrong. Especially if you think about how many people would argue eminent domain is wrong.

Kat wrote they own the land. Argument is over.

It might be argued for denial, if the Cleric preached violence against the "infidel" Told men to harass women into following their views of Morality, etc. But, we have a code of laws for dealing with such people.

There is no reason to deny it.

Most Muslims are reasonable. They have their dumbasses like any other religion. They are aware of people feelings and if approached can work out an arrangements.

I am reminding of a story of a Mosque built somewhere in Michigan. They did the usual call for prayers. People got annoyed by the early morning noise and complained. The Mosque was approached and they offered to not do the early morning calls in order to be good neighbors.

The US like many countries has had it's share of racism. Even in the "liberal fag" state of California there were times where it was illegal for Japanese, Chinese and Hispanics to own land. If we are ever to reach enlightenment, we need to stop thinking like Troglodytes.

All that should matter is if people are decent, want to be good neighbors and contributing members of society.

[The Alma Mater]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

They planned the attack silly. Remember: ALL muslims are terrorists and they ALL participated in 9/11. So say fans of the "war on terror", so it must be true.

[North Calaveras]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

They planned the attack silly. Remember: ALL muslims are terrorists and they ALL participated in 9/11. So say fans of the "war on terror", so it must be true.

If I was muslim and I murdered your family in the name of my god would you not feel a little weird around muslims?

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

They planned the attack silly. Remember: ALL muslims are terrorists and they ALL participated in 9/11. So say fans of the "war on terror", so it must be true.

You mean people actually said all Muslims are NOT terrorists?! How absurd! I am currently planning all of your deaths.... muahahahah

[The Alma Mater]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

They planned the attack silly. Remember: ALL muslims are terrorists and they ALL participated in 9/11. So say fans of the "war on terror", so it must be true.

If I was muslim and I murdered your family in the name of my god would you not feel a little weird around muslims?

You are also male, right ? Should I feel a little weird around males as well ?

[Callisdrun]

I don't feel any weirder around muslims than around jews or christians.

[North Calaveras]

I think it somewhat is prejudicial behavior It wasn't the mainstream religion that motivated them but a fringe section. Despite how I feel about all religions, I feel their objections to be completely void of merit.

Except that it was the mainstream 'religion'.

And I think that those folks wanting to build that thing, are doing it deliberately to plan it near the site of 9/11 just to provoke a reaction.

Then -how- did they know --before-- 2001 that this was going to happen. The plans were made, property bought. HOW? If you're seriously into Islam you can time travel ? The location of the mosque was chosen _before_ any one could have known it would be a provocation.

They planned the attack silly. Remember: ALL muslims are terrorists and they ALL participated in 9/11. So say fans of the "war on terror", so it must be true.

If I was muslim and I murdered your family in the name of my god would you not feel a little weird around muslims?

You are also male, right ? Should I feel a little weird around males as well ?

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

[The Alma Mater]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

Indeed....

[North Calaveras]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

If a person killed your family for money... would you not use money???

[The Alma Mater]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

Of course I would not trust the people who killed. Doesn't mean I should distrust the 1,5 billion people or so who disagree with those inviduals interpretation of their faith.

I dislike Islam for other reasons

[North Calaveras]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

Of course I would not trust the people who killed. Doesn't mean I should distrust the 1,5 billion people or so who disagree with those inviduals interpretation of their faith.

I dislike Islam for other reasons

I wont go into your reasons.

Look, build the mosque if its legal, but don't look stupid when people think its kind of wrong for you to do so.

[Callisdrun]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

The muslims, jews and christians all worship the same god.

[North Calaveras]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

The muslims, jews and christians all worship the same god.

True, but there doing it specifically in the name of Islam.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I dont think radical muslims kill people in the name of there penis..........................

"For the virgins !"

But seriously, you realize that if a religous person killed your family or people you knew in the name of there god you would be like " Oh, those people hurt me before I don't know if I should trust them" right?

The muslims, jews and christians all worship the same god.

True, but there doing it specifically in the name of Islam.

They are doing it for political reasons...

[Callisdrun]

Just another abrahamic faith.

[The Alma Mater]

Look, build the mosque if its legal, but don't look stupid when people think its kind of wrong for you to do so.

Do you think it is wrong for Catholics to work with children now ?