How to properly raise a child.

[Treznor]

Children are amazing in the way they observe and mimic what they see. If you're not a sexist, homophobic cult follower, they're not likely to be inclined toward that behavior either. You also have the option of teaching them critical thinking skills without enforcing religious or gender roles, making them a little less likely to engage in destructive behavior as you describe.

Right, but even then your influencing how your children will think for life. Which is a good thing; second maybe to feeding them, that's the most important part of parenting, showing children how to act like adult humans. But I don't think it's realistic to say "if I raise my child without a religious role, he will be able to decide for himself." What's more likely is the child grows up not caring to give himself a religious role.

My automatic reflex is to ask why this is a bad thing. But the point is that you will be teaching your children more by example than you will with any words. This is why consistency is so vital in raising children. Telling children not to steal is all well and good, but if they see you filching pennies from the community plate they're going to follow your example more than your advice.

Put it another way: you want to know what kind of person you are? Observe your children. They'll just like you in many ways. If you're sincere in your religious faith without preaching religion to your children, chances are pretty good that they'll follow in your footsteps anyway.

To use a slightly twisted analogy: you can't preserve the blank slate, and if you try, the kid will just grow up thinking that part of the slate is supposed to be left blank, or doesn't exist at all. That's fine, but not much different from coloring it in. (Wow, that's really convoluted.)

Not really. Children are really good at filling in the blanks. They observe the world without assumptions, and that means the entire world, not just the verbal portion of it. You couldn't preserve even part of the blank slate if you tried. Sooner or later the questions about the blank parts will come and they'll find answers whether or not you provide them. The big question is whether or not you've given them the tools to critically examine the answers they find, or if they've learned to simply accept what they're told without question. I'm pretty sure you can guess what I think about that.

We can guide children without placing undue limitations on their ability to discover and choose for themselves.

I agree. However, I think people raising their child to be male or Jewish can be very subtle and hands-off in their approach, and people raising their child to be genderless can be very authoritarian. It depends more on the personality of the parents than what values they're teaching or not teaching.

No argument here. It's one thing to leave the gender issue alone and let the child figure it out for themselves. It's something else to forbid any taint of gender and demand that the child abandon any semblence of gender characteristics. One promotes self-discovery, while the other just represses.

[New Limacon]

Well, it's not so much the stuff I'm "ambivalent" about, so much as the stuff where I don't think there is a single right answer.

I was treating those as the same, but I guess not. What could be right for one person might be wrong for someone else. Makes sense.
[South East Europe]I disagree: My family raising me to be "male" and Catholic was very authoritarian, not even slightly subtle. Being more open to difference when raising your children has a major impact on the quality of life.[/quote]
Right, but that's your family. It is possible for others to act differently.

[Treznor]

I agree. However, I think people raising their child to be male or Jewish can be very subtle and hands-off in their approach, and people raising their child to be genderless can be very authoritarian. It depends more on the personality of the parents than what values they're teaching or not teaching.

I disgree: My family raising me to be "male" and Catholic was very authoritarian, not even slightly subtle. Being more open to difference when raising your children has a major impact on the quality of life.

I think you misunderstood his point: he's less concerned with what you teach than how you teach it. Your family could have been very subtle and indirect in their encouragement for you to be "male" and "Catholic," but instead they went the authoritarian route. That kind of strict assimilation method can have unintended consequences as the child gets older.

[South East Europe]

I disagree: My family raising me to be "male" and Catholic was very authoritarian, not even slightly subtle. Being more open to difference when raising your children has a major impact on the quality of life.

Right, but that's your family. It is possible for others to act differently.

Yes, but I'm saying raising your child to be one thing or another is just as authoritarian as raising your child to be neither.

[Grand Soviet]

I really dislike how there seems to be all these people out there who think that there is really only one way to raise children otherwise they'll end up drug addicted mental cases.

Case in point: I am a trans-woman and I have a four-year old son. When I initially transitioned three years ago a number of people questioned me how could they except my son to grow up right with this. But it really isn't that simple, how could I be a parent to my son before when I was suicidally depressed and unable to attend to his needs or even play with him.

Out of all the people in my life, right now my son is probably the person who has adjusted to the transition the easiest. To him it really didn't matter.

I know that as he grows up there will be further questions about this and I think the best way to deal with it is to be honest. Just like most every other aspect of life.

As for my parenting style I am kind of a hands off parent and I really only discipline, lecture when the situation calls for it. For the most part I let me son explore his life and discover the things he likes. The one thing I really can't stand is heliacopter parents, those people who however around their kids constantly and use them to fulfill their own expectations.

As for things like religion I'm not the most devout person in the world, but my family is activly involved with the church so I plan to introduce him to the basics of the faith and when he gets older let him work out what exactly he believes.

[South East Europe]

I agree. However, I think people raising their child to be male or Jewish can be very subtle and hands-off in their approach, and people raising their child to be genderless can be very authoritarian. It depends more on the personality of the parents than what values they're teaching or not teaching.

I disgree: My family raising me to be "male" and Catholic was very authoritarian, not even slightly subtle. Being more open to difference when raising your children has a major impact on the quality of life.

I think you misunderstood his point: he's less concerned with what you teach than how you teach it. Your family could have been very subtle and indirect in their encouragement for you to be "male" and "Catholic," but instead they went the authoritarian route. That kind of strict assimilation method can have unintended consequences as the child gets older.

I understand his point. Just if you want your children to be a specific way or not any specific way at all, both ends are very authoritarian. I am "female" and don't agree with religion. My family, like many other families, didn't want to hear it. Many parents are inept at raising children because they want children as long as the children share their religion, aren't physically disabled, and aren't transgendered.

[South East Europe]

I really dislike how there seems to be all these people out there who think that there is really only one way to raise children otherwise they'll end up drug addicted mental cases.

Case in point: I am a trans-woman and I have a four-year old son. When I initially transitioned three years ago a number of people questioned me how could they except my son to grow up right with this. But it really isn't that simple, how could I be a parent to my son before when I was suicidally depressed and unable to attend to his needs or even play with him.

Out of all the people in my life, right now my son is probably the person who has adjusted to the transition the easiest. To him it really didn't matter.

I know that as he grows up there will be further questions about this and I think the best way to deal with it is to be honest. Just like most every other aspect of life.

As for my parenting style I am kind of a hands off parent and I really only discipline, lecture when the situation calls for it. For the most part I let me son explore his life and discover the things he likes. The one thing I really can't stand is heliacopter parents, those people who however around their kids constantly and use them to fulfill their own expectations.

As for things like religion I'm not the most devout person in the world, but my family is activly involved with the church so I plan to introduce him to the basics of the faith and when he gets older let him work out what exactly he believes.

There isn't one way to raise a child, sure, but there are many bad ways to raise children that too many parents participate in. I'm only 18 years old and I have attempted suicide 17 times because of all the emotional and physical abuse and torture my family put me through.

[New Limacon]

My automatic reflex is to ask why this is a bad thing. But the point is that you will be teaching your children more by example than you will with any words. This is why consistency is so vital in raising children. Telling children not to steal is all well and good, but if they see you filching pennies from the community plate they're going to follow your example more than your advice.

It might not be a bad thing, but the point is they think that because of how they were raised. And children do learn more by example than what you tell them, which is what I mean by influencing your children even if you don't read from the Bible every Saturday night or make them wear blue.

Not really. Children are really good at filling in the blanks. They observe the world without assumptions, and that means the entire world, not just the verbal portion of it. You couldn't preserve even part of the blank slate if you tried. Sooner or later the questions about the blank parts will come and they'll find answers whether or not you provide them. The big question is whether or not you've given them the tools to critically examine the answers they find, or if they've learned to simply accept what they're told without question. I'm pretty sure you can guess what I think about that.

Right. That's what I meant when I said, "The problem I have with trying to not inflict personal beliefs on one's children is that someone or something will, perhaps not even intentionally." Assuming a child can make important life decisions just from innate human logic is incorrect, which means you teach them critical thinking, but also means you teach them to assume certain things are true, sort of the axioms they use for the rest of the life. You probably don't even realize when you do this, because they're things you personally believe are absolutely true, and they learn by example.

No argument here. It's one thing to leave the gender issue alone and let the child figure it out for themselves. It's something else to forbid any taint of gender and demand that the child abandon any semblence of gender characteristics. One promotes self-discovery, while the other just represses.

Again, I agree. I've had friends who've rebelled against their very traditional parents by adopting more progressive views, and friends who have done the opposite, adopted more traditional views to oppose their parents. Trying to crush any deviation from what you teach your children will just make it all the more appealing.

[Treznor]

I think you misunderstood his point: he's less concerned with what you teach than how you teach it. Your family could have been very subtle and indirect in their encouragement for you to be "male" and "Catholic," but instead they went the authoritarian route. That kind of strict assimilation method can have unintended consequences as the child gets older.

I understand his point. Just if you want your children to be a specific way or not any specific way at all, both ends are very authoritarian. I am "female" and don't agree with religion. My family, like many other families, didn't want to hear it. Many parents are inept at raising children because they want children as long as the children share their religion, aren't physically disabled, and aren't transgendered.

Well, that's the issue we're discussing here: once the child has made a decision, parents are then faced with the choice of supporting it or trying to force a change. My mother was pissed when I abandoned religion and to this day works at getting me back. She is definitely not the supportive type, and the fact that our relationship is improved by large distances reflects that fact. My mother could have accepted my choice been supportive, but instead she chose to demand that I conform to her ideals. I don't think she quite anticipated the result.

[New Limacon]

Well, that's the issue we're discussing here: once the child has made a decision, parents are then faced with the choice of supporting it or trying to force a change. My mother was pissed when I abandoned religion and to this day works at getting me back. She is definitely not the supportive type, and the fact that our relationship is improved by large distances reflects that fact. My mother could have accepted my choice been supportive, but instead she chose to demand that I conform to her ideals. I don't think she quite anticipated the result.

Probably counter-productive, too. If I left the faith of my parents, what would I be more likely to come back too: a community that is unhappy I left but continues to love and support me, or one that refuses to acknowledge my existence?

[Jordaxia]

Whilst there are a thousand wrong ways to raise a child, I don't think there's any simple 'right' or 'proper' way to go about it. Were I parent, and every day I thank the cosmos that I cannot become one, I think my approach would revolve a set of two simple principles: 1 Always work towards their maximum long term happiness, 2: Remember that I have responsibilities and obligations to see them equipped to fight the world. I do not have rights to dictate their personalities to them.

I suppose an optional third one would be to emphasise how important it is to accept that taking life too seriously is the quickest route to being unhappy, and they'd do well to not take the rest of the worlds example and act like this is all serious business.

[Treznor]

Well, that's the issue we're discussing here: once the child has made a decision, parents are then faced with the choice of supporting it or trying to force a change. My mother was pissed when I abandoned religion and to this day works at getting me back. She is definitely not the supportive type, and the fact that our relationship is improved by large distances reflects that fact. My mother could have accepted my choice been supportive, but instead she chose to demand that I conform to her ideals. I don't think she quite anticipated the result.

Probably counter-productive, too. If I left the faith of my parents, what would I be more likely to come back too: a community that is unhappy I left but continues to love and support me, or one that refuses to acknowledge my existence?

Fortunately, my mother isn't quite that stupid. She still acknowledges my existence, but she keeps insisting that I know the truth and I'm just being stubborn. That might well be the truth, but she refuses to accept that I haven't found anything to convince me she's right. And no, she gives me no incentive to recant.

[Neo Art]

Where I would feel I failed is if I had a child who believed that reading is for pussies.

Wait wait wait wait WAIT.

.....yours can read?

[Treznor]

Where I would feel I failed is if I had a child who believed that reading is for pussies.

Wait wait wait wait WAIT.

.....yours can read?

Mine thinks she can. She's always sitting on my chest between me and my book, purring away like nothing's wrong.

[Neo Art]

Where I would feel I failed is if I had a child who believed that reading is for pussies.

Wait wait wait wait WAIT.

.....yours can read?

Mine thinks she can. She's always sitting on my chest between me and my book, purring away like nothing's wrong.

But that's not what...I didn't....that's not the same.....

Oh, I see what you did there.

[Grand Soviet]

There isn't one way to raise a child, sure, but there are many bad ways to raise children that too many parents participate in. I'm only 18 years old and I have attempted suicide 17 times because of all the emotional and physical abuse and torture my family put me through.

I agree that there is many ways to raise a child wrong. I think aside from the obvious, emotional, physical and psychological abuse I think the worse thing a parent can do is try to be some sort of dictator in thier childs life by making all of their decisions and never letting be children and make their own decisions.

I mention the previous story mostly because I chaffe at people believing that who I am in life makes me unfit to be a parent.

[BunnySaurus Bugsii]

Whoop there ass with a belt when they act out in public

I think this thread is a bad idea.

SEE posted well in the other thread, and quite a few of her posts, and many others besides, are still sinking into my mind.

I think this thread is a bad idea. I think any thread on that subject is a bad idea, for at least a few days. Words are fast, but beliefs are not. Even the best words take some time to sink in.

... oh, sorry, did you say something?

Ugh. That is disgusting.

How about you and I step outside this thread, and decide which of us is "daddy" and has the right to beat the other with a leather strap?

[Phenia]

1. Form babby.
2. ???
3. PROFIT

[The Scandinvans]

So how does a person properly raise a child?

With a hot-air balloon.

On a more serious note, I'd say mostly letting the child decide things for eirself (for example: religion, or gender).

Religion is a choice, yes. Gender, like Sexual Orientation, is not.

Sexual orientation can be suppressed leading to an asexual life.

[South East Europe]

I think you misunderstood his point: he's less concerned with what you teach than how you teach it. Your family could have been very subtle and indirect in their encouragement for you to be "male" and "Catholic," but instead they went the authoritarian route. That kind of strict assimilation method can have unintended consequences as the child gets older.

I understand his point. Just if you want your children to be a specific way or not any specific way at all, both ends are very authoritarian. I am "female" and don't agree with religion. My family, like many other families, didn't want to hear it. Many parents are inept at raising children because they want children as long as the children share their religion, aren't physically disabled, and aren't transgendered.

Well, that's the issue we're discussing here: once the child has made a decision, parents are then faced with the choice of supporting it or trying to force a change. My mother was pissed when I abandoned religion and to this day works at getting me back. She is definitely not the supportive type, and the fact that our relationship is improved by large distances reflects that fact. My mother could have accepted my choice been supportive, but instead she chose to demand that I conform to her ideals. I don't think she quite anticipated the result.

My family blames me for everything: the Physical Disability that I was born with, My Transgendered status that I cannot change. When I made the decision to live as who I am, stop lying to myself, and make the best of my life that is when the hatred and intolerance began. No parent should condemn and ridicule their own child for being different. The relationship with my family will never recover. Parents should make the right choice: To love their children no matter what, not abuse Her/Him. My family knew the result, they just never gave a damn about me. There are good ways to raise children and there are bad ways.

[South East Europe]

Sexual orientation can be suppressed leading to an asexual life.

Asexuality is a seperate, individual, sexual orientation. It's not the opposite of sexual orientation. It is still a sexual orientation.

[Treznor]

My family blames me for everything: the Physical Disability that I was born with, My Transgendered status that I cannot change. When I made the decision to live as who I am, stop lying to myself, and make the best of my life that is when the hatred and intolerance began. No parent should condemn and ridicule their own child for being different. The relationship with my family will never recover. Parents should make the right choice: To love their children no matter what, not abuse Her/Him. My family knew the result, they just never gave a damn about me. There are good ways to raise children and there are bad ways.

I must concede, that's one of the worst ways I can think of to raise a child. That's not so much raising a child as dragging it along behind you.

[South East Europe]

There isn't one way to raise a child, sure, but there are many bad ways to raise children that too many parents participate in. I'm only 18 years old and I have attempted suicide 17 times because of all the emotional and physical abuse and torture my family put me through.

I agree that there is many ways to raise a child wrong. I think aside from the obvious, emotional, physical and psychological abuse I think the worse thing a parent can do is try to be some sort of dictator in thier childs life by making all of their decisions and never letting be children and make their own decisions.

I mention the previous story mostly because I chaffe at people believing that who I am in life makes me unfit to be a parent.

Many parents, in being dictators over their children, employ abuse and torture tactics.

Well, who you were pretending to be made you an unfit parent. You did what was probably best for you and your child.

[Smunkeeville]

I think he means celibate, not asexual.


Also, to the OP, to vastly oversimplify things the job of a parent is to meet a child's needs to the best of their ability and/or not stand in the way of the child meeting their needs as long as it's not harmful. (I realize harmful is subjective, but I don't have time to really deal with that right now)

[Greed and Death]

If child is a teen aged daughter give her to me to raise.