How to properly raise a child.

[South East Europe]

This is a spin-off of the thread "Genderless Baby". People seem to be in major debate over how to raise a child. Well, first off, Physical Sex, Gender Identity, Sexual Orientation, and Sexual Preference should never be your sole purpose for how you raise your child. Later on, your child will know what S/He is without you enforcing what you think your child should be in terms of Sexuality. That is probably the worst thing to do. So how does a person properly raise a child?

[Call to power]

er I'd lean fairly closely to how parents want to raise their children seeing as how they'd have the best idea and be the ones with the children's interests most at heart

feel free to call me a crazy bee jar salesman

[The Tofu Islands]

So how does a person properly raise a child?

With a hot-air balloon.

On a more serious note, I'd say mostly letting the child decide things for eirself (for example: religion, or gender).

[Treznor]

Consistently. Mean what you say and say what you mean: when you say "don't do that or you'll be punished" then follow through when they do it. Provide structure and support, praise them for their effort whether they succeed or fail and don't rush in to do things for them once they've grasped the basic concepts.

As for gender and sexuality, that's for them to figure out. They'll figure out what works for them before too long.

[DrunkenDove]

It doesn't really matter, because at the age of fifteen they're going to reject all your values and opinions anyway.

Hmmm, actually, I might raise my ids in a far right uber-religious household, and then when they reach their teenage rebellion stage I can be "I'm actually a godless baby-killing communist! Psyche!"

[Conserative Morality]

It doesn't really matter, because at the age of fifteen they're going to reject all your values and opinions anyway.

Hmmm, actually, I might raise my ids in a far right uber-religious household, and then when they reach their teenage rebellion stage I can be "I'm actually a godless baby-killing communist! Psyche!"

You're good.

[South East Europe]

So how does a person properly raise a child?

With a hot-air balloon.

On a more serious note, I'd say mostly letting the child decide things for eirself (for example: religion, or gender).

Religion is a choice, yes. Gender, like Sexual Orientation, is not.

[Treznor]

So how does a person properly raise a child?

With a hot-air balloon.

On a more serious note, I'd say mostly letting the child decide things for eirself (for example: religion, or gender).

Religion is a choice, yes. Gender, like Sexual Orientation, is not.

Some people discover that their gender doesn't match their sexual organs. I think that's what Tofu means by letting the child decide for eirself.

[South East Europe]

It doesn't really matter, because at the age of fifteen they're going to reject all your values and opinions anyway.

Hmmm, actually, I might raise my ids in a far right uber-religious household, and then when they reach their teenage rebellion stage I can be "I'm actually a godless baby-killing communist! Psyche!"

Wow, I'm 18. I never reached that teenage rebellion stage. I guess cause only a few ideas were forced on me. I hate my parents though, but for other reasons.

[South East Europe]

Some people discover that their gender doesn't match their sexual organs. I think that's what Tofu means by letting the child decide for eirself.

Yes, I know that. However, I didn't decide/choose my gender. My gender just didn't match my physical sex. It wasn't a decision or a choice, it was predetermined before birth that I would be this way. It just triggers me when people hint on it being a choice or a decision.

[Bottle]

This is a spin-off of the thread "Genderless Baby". People seem to be in major debate over how to raise a child. Well, first off, Physical Sex, Gender Identity, Sexual Orientation, and Sexual Preference should never be your sole purpose for how you raise your child. Later on, your child will know what S/He is without you enforcing what you think your child should be in terms of Sexuality. That is probably the worst thing to do. So how does a person properly raise a child?

I think the genderless baby model is the best possible option. I actually find it really sick how people sexualize children from birth.

Hell, the day my brother was born the nurses were very distressed because they didn't have a blue jumper to put him in, so they had to put him in a pink one for the 10 minutes it took them to find a blue one. They apologized endlessly. Because *GASP* a boy baby was put in PINK! Somebody might not be able to correctly identify the sex of a newborn!!oneshift1!

Unless you're interested in having sex with somebody or providing them with medical care, gender should be irrelevant. It's not, of course, but it should be.

If I were ever to have offspring or children under my care (heavens forfend), I'd raise them genderless, secular, and intellectual. Let them make up their own minds about stuff like their gender, their orientation, their religious/philosophical beliefs, or whatever else. If I raised them right, I shouldn't have anything to fear about letting them work out such matters for themselves. The only parents who need to control their children's orientation or religious beliefs are those who don't trust their kids to make the right decisions for themselves.

[South East Europe]

Consistently. Mean what you say and say what you mean: when you say "don't do that or you'll be punished" then follow through when they do it. Provide structure and support, praise them for their effort whether they succeed or fail and don't rush in to do things for them once they've grasped the basic concepts.

As for gender and sexuality, that's for them to figure out. They'll figure out what works for them before too long.

Good idea.

[Treznor]

It doesn't really matter, because at the age of fifteen they're going to reject all your values and opinions anyway.

Hmmm, actually, I might raise my ids in a far right uber-religious household, and then when they reach their teenage rebellion stage I can be "I'm actually a godless baby-killing communist! Psyche!"

Wow, I'm 18. I never reached that teenage rebellion stage. I guess cause only a few ideas were forced on me. I hate my parents though, but for other reasons.

I did, but I have second child syndrome. I was just more subtle about it than some. It doesn't change my distaste for talking to my mother, but that's largely on religious grounds.

[JuNii]

Like everything else, there is no one true way.
you can only do your best.

[The Tofu Islands]

Some people discover that their gender doesn't match their sexual organs. I think that's what Tofu means by letting the child decide for eirself.

That's what I meant. I mean not enforcing one style of behaviour based on the sex of the child.

[New Limacon]

I think the genderless baby model is the best possible option. I actually find it really sick how people sexualize children from birth.

Hell, the day my brother was born the nurses were very distressed because they didn't have a blue jumper to put him in, so they had to put him in a pink one for the 10 minutes it took them to find a blue one. They apologized endlessly. Because *GASP* a boy baby was put in PINK! Somebody might not be able to correctly identify the sex of a newborn!!oneshift1!

I never blame people like nurses for over-apologizing, because I'm sure there's one customer in a hundred who does get angry when his or her baby boy is dressed in pink, and it's difficult to tell them apart from the other ninety-nine. But you're right, kind of silly. You'd think a hospital of all places would know how to tell boys apart from girls without color coding them.

If I were ever to have offspring or children under my care (heavens forfend), I'd raise them genderless, secular, and intellectual. Let them make up their own minds about stuff like their gender, their orientation, their religious/philosophical beliefs, or whatever else. If I raised them right, I shouldn't have anything to fear about letting them work out such matters for themselves. The only parents who need to control their children's orientation or religious beliefs are those who don't trust their kids to make the right decisions for themselves.

So what happens if they become sexist, homophobic, cult followers? Does that mean you raised them wrong? The problem I have with trying to not inflict personal beliefs on one's children is that someone or something will, perhaps not even intentionally. It seems you might as well try to guide them in the way you think is right.

EDIT:...which could be genderless, secular, and intellectual. But that itself is a way of thinking.

[Treznor]

I never blame people like nurses for over-apologizing, because I'm sure there's one customer in a hundred who does get angry when his or her baby boy is dressed in pink, and it's difficult to tell them apart from the other ninety-nine. But you're right, kind of silly. You'd think a hospital of all places would know how to tell boys apart from girls without color coding them.

Agreed. Medical staff are typically overworked and underpaid. I tend to give them a lot of slack for the simple stuff.

So what happens if they become sexist, homophobic, cult followers? Does that mean you raised them wrong? The problem I have with trying to not inflict personal beliefs on one's children is that someone or something will, perhaps not even intentionally. It seems you might as well try to guide them in the way you think is right.

Children are amazing in the way they observe and mimic what they see. If you're not a sexist, homophobic cult follower, they're not likely to be inclined toward that behavior either. You also have the option of teaching them critical thinking skills without enforcing religious or gender roles, making them a little less likely to engage in destructive behavior as you describe. We can guide children without placing undue limitations on their ability to discover and choose for themselves.

[Bottle]

I never blame people like nurses for over-apologizing, because I'm sure there's one customer in a hundred who does get angry when his or her baby boy is dressed in pink, and it's difficult to tell them apart from the other ninety-nine. But you're right, kind of silly. You'd think a hospital of all places would know how to tell boys apart from girls without color coding them.

Well yeah, I didn't mean to come off as just hating on the nurses, because you're quite right...they probably panicked because other people panic over that stuff.

When I was little my parents actually had complete strangers get UPSET because they couldn't immediately identify my gender. And it's not like my parents went out of their way to be confusing about it...I usually was wearing little pastel baby clothes just like any other kid, it's just mine were green or yellow or orange instead of being handy color-coded blue or pink. People would actually be almost angry over the fact that they couldn't instantly tell if I was a girl or boy.

So what happens if they become sexist, homophobic, cult followers? Does that mean you raised them wrong?

Yep, because the values I would teach a child are fundamentally incompatible with being sexist or homophobic. The cult thing is more iffy, because I know people who join cults for a range of reasons that often have little to do with their upbringing (a friend of mine got into one during a period of serious clinical depression, and that's not something you can prevent by just "raising a kid right").

To choose a less extreme and more likely outcome, what if I had a kid who grew up and decided they wanted to become a Methodist? Would I feel that I had failed because my child was religious?

Well, that'd depend entirely on why they chose to become a Methodist. I know plenty of reasons that, while I don't personally AGREE with them, I also can understand and respect them. I don't have a problem with the idea that my kid might end up disagreeing with me on some big issues, as long as I can feel like our fundamental values still fit.

If my kid grew up to be a KKK member, yeah, that'd be a failure. If my kid grew up to be a gay basher or a woman-hater, you're damn right I'd have failed as a parent. But if my kid grew up and decided they were a cisgendered straight person, what's the failure there? Just because that's not what I am doesn't mean it's wrong for my kid to be that.

The problem I have with trying to not inflict personal beliefs on one's children is that someone or something will, perhaps not even intentionally. It seems you might as well try to guide them in the way you think is right.

Who said anything about not inflicting personal beliefs?

I believe in the value of education, in a complex system of ethics, in a whole manner of basic rules of conduct, and a whole lot else. You can't avoid teaching a kid that stuff.

But my take is, you teach them the general stuff. You teach them basic ethics, but you don't need to teach them religion. You teach them about human bodies and reproduction, but you don't need to teach them to conform to gender roles.

Think about it for any other area; you can teach your child how to count money and how to manage money, without teaching them that they should be a capitalist or a communist, right?

[New Limacon]

Children are amazing in the way they observe and mimic what they see. If you're not a sexist, homophobic cult follower, they're not likely to be inclined toward that behavior either. You also have the option of teaching them critical thinking skills without enforcing religious or gender roles, making them a little less likely to engage in destructive behavior as you describe.

Right, but even then your influencing how your children will think for life. Which is a good thing; second maybe to feeding them, that's the most important part of parenting, showing children how to act like adult humans. But I don't think it's realistic to say "if I raise my child without a religious role, he will be able to decide for himself." What's more likely is the child grows up not caring to give himself a religious role.
To use a slightly twisted analogy: you can't preserve the blank slate, and if you try, the kid will just grow up thinking that part of the slate is supposed to be left blank, or doesn't exist at all. That's fine, but not much different from coloring it in. (Wow, that's really convoluted.)

We can guide children without placing undue limitations on their ability to discover and choose for themselves.

I agree. However, I think people raising their child to be male or Jewish can be very subtle and hands-off in their approach, and people raising their child to be genderless can be very authoritarian. It depends more on the personality of the parents than what values they're teaching or not teaching.

[New Limacon]

Who said anything about not inflicting personal beliefs?

I believe in the value of education, in a complex system of ethics, in a whole manner of basic rules of conduct, and a whole lot else. You can't avoid teaching a kid that stuff.

But my take is, you teach them the general stuff. You teach them basic ethics, but you don't need to teach them religion. You teach them about human bodies and reproduction, but you don't need to teach them to conform to gender roles.

Think about it for any other area; you can teach your child how to count money and how to manage money, without teaching them that they should be a capitalist or a communist, right?

Okay, I think I understand. The stuff you think they should know to be a basically decent, functioning person, you teach them, and the stuff you're ambivalent about, you layoff. Is that correct? You and I have different opinions about what constitutes the "basically decent person" stuff, I think, which is where I got confused. For example, my ethics is very much connected with my religion, so it would be weird to teach one but not the other, but if they're separate I can see it makes sense.

[Intangelon]

Religion is a choice, yes. Gender, like Sexual Orientation, is not.

Yes indeed. There are no Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, or insert-religion-here, children.

[Surote]

Whoop there ass with a belt when they act out in public

[Bottle]

Okay, I think I understand. The stuff you think they should know to be a basically decent, functioning person, you teach them, and the stuff you're ambivalent about, you layoff. Is that correct? You and I have different opinions about what constitutes the "basically decent person" stuff, I think, which is where I got confused. For example, my ethics is very much connected with my religion, so it would be weird to teach one but not the other, but if they're separate I can see it makes sense.

Well, it's not so much the stuff I'm "ambivalent" about, so much as the stuff where I don't think there is a single right answer.

I don't think identifying as male is "right" or "wrong." I don't think that being lesbian is "right" or "wrong." I don't think liking the color red is "right" or "wrong."

Now, I'm not ambivalent about my gender, my sexuality, or my favorite color. I know exactly how I feel about those things, and I'd be pissed off if somebody tried to force me to be something I'm not or to like something I don't like. But that doesn't mean I think I'm "right" and everyone else should feel the same way I do. And if I had a child who was completely different from me in all those ways, I wouldn't see that as an inherent failure.

Where I would feel I failed is if I had a child who believed that reading is for pussies.

[South East Europe]

To use a slightly twisted analogy: you can't preserve the blank slate, and if you try, the kid will just grow up thinking that part of the slate is supposed to be left blank, or doesn't exist at all. That's fine, but not much different from coloring it in. (Wow, that's really convoluted.)

We can guide children without placing undue limitations on their ability to discover and choose for themselves.

I agree. However, I think people raising their child to be male or Jewish can be very subtle and hands-off in their approach, and people raising their child to be genderless can be very authoritarian. It depends more on the personality of the parents than what values they're teaching or not teaching.

I disgree: My family raising me to be "male" and Catholic was very authoritarian, not even slightly subtle. Being more open to difference when raising your children has a major impact on the quality of life.

[South East Europe]

Where I would feel I failed is if I had a child who believed that reading is for pussies.

I would disown my child if they thought that.