Greece legalises equal marriage

[Risottia]

I know so many Greeks who are against this but for me- meh. Who cares.

Does anyone want to also mention that Greece is (thus far) the only country with land in the Middle East that has legalised same sex marriage?

Middle East?
Ffs.

[Essic]

snip

Akhiiiii. There is always the option of patience. Let's say Liberal Progressive ideas have been installed deep in the entirety of Europe as well as most of the globe, well, let them be. Freethinkers and Progressives will always think like they do, what should we do about it? Bomb Boeing-737s into towers? No, there are Islamic hadiths that had correctly had said that in the future (examples: hadiths that predicted gambling, a lotta atheism, and even headphones)

TLDR: As Muslims, we should remain patient. Let liberals be liberals, let them be the masters of their own fate.

I know so many Greeks who are against this but for me- meh. Who cares.

Does anyone want to also mention that Greece is (thus far) the only country with land in the Middle East that has legalised same sex marriage?

Greece in the middle east Ottoman lore is so back lads

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I know so many Greeks who are against this but for me- meh. Who cares.

Does anyone want to also mention that Greece is (thus far) the only country with land in the Middle East that has legalised same sex marriage?

Greek territory in the middle east? Have we gone back to the Hellenistic Period while I wasn't looking?

[Distruzio]

No, you really don't seem to care about people being left alone to do as they please, free from government restriction. Which makes it very annoying when you decry "liberalism" or "democracy" for supposedly being totalizing and coercive, despite the fact that you have no issue whatsoever with coercion.

You talk about how what a lot of us are saying has no relevance to you, since our positions are based on values which you don't believe in. But why then should we take you seriously when you appeal to values that you don't even believe in?

The supposed coerciveness of "liberalism" is not the problem. "liberalism" itself is. Again, Distruzio seems perfectly fine with advocating for their faith alone, finding no need to justify their beliefs in any sort of materially relevant way. 'tis what the Church and God wants, therefore, 'tis what must be done. There seems to be no further complexity to their beliefs - contrary to regular conservatives, Distruzio is open about their moral proposals being solely based on faith, and their belief that their religion is exclusively correct and legitimate above others. It's purely theological politics, a kind that seems to be in decline given the ever-increasing necessity for materialistic arguments.

They do not expect us to take them seriously. Ever. Their arguments will only resonate with those that find their particular brand of faith first. Religion - and religious interpretations aligned with them - are required to believe in whatever they're peddling. It's not rational argumentation, nor is it evidence-based.

This is correct. Liberal priests are not my Priests.

I have no desire to be "take[n] seriously" by members of that cult.

I have also heard some crap about some people REALLY disliking the idea of someone marrying a divorcee, does that have to do with the nuclear family and is that true btw?

It's a thing, though as with all things related Christianism, its importance varies from person to person. Some people don't give a fuck, others will discriminate openly against divorcees. It has less to do with the nuclear family and more to do with Christian marriage being, supposedly, a life-long ordeal. When it goes wrong, relationships with the Church are... complicated.

It's an unfortunate thing, truly. Quite a bit more grace on the issue of divorce, given the nature of contemporary culture, would benefit many.

The Church has its prescriptions. It's prescriptions are, to my mind, reasonable.

I'm not a libertarian, Ruso. Not remotely.

No, you really don't seem to care about people being left alone to do as they please, free from government restriction. Which makes it very annoying when you decry "liberalism" or "democracy" for supposedly being totalizing and coercive, despite the fact that you have no issue whatsoever with coercion.

You talk about how what a lot of us are saying has no relevance to you, since our positions are based on values which you don't believe in. But why then should we take you seriously when you appeal to values that you don't even believe in?

Correct. I see no issue with coercion, qua coercion. I just won't pretend liberalism presents anything remotely opposite of coercion. I won't play the game of fantasy. I live in a liberal society. It makes sense that liberal institutions and advocates would seek to enforce their worldview on me... and that they would be absolutely confused by my refusal to reflect it back at them. Your values are not mine. Your frame is not mine.

This is confusing. I do understand that.

[Necroghastia]

qua coercion. I just won't pretend liberalism presents anything remotely opposite of coercion. I won't play the game of fantasy. I live in a liberal society. It makes sense that liberal institutions and advocates would seek to enforce their worldview on me... and that they would be absolutely confused by my refusal to reflect it back at them. Your values are not mine. Your frame is not mine.

This is confusing. I do understand that.

still waiting on any evidence at all that the orthodox church will be forced to gay marry people lmao

[Kalaron]

The supposed coerciveness of "liberalism" is not the problem. "liberalism" itself is. Again, Distruzio seems perfectly fine with advocating for their faith alone, finding no need to justify their beliefs in any sort of materially relevant way. 'tis what the Church and God wants, therefore, 'tis what must be done. There seems to be no further complexity to their beliefs - contrary to regular conservatives, Distruzio is open about their moral proposals being solely based on faith, and their belief that their religion is exclusively correct and legitimate above others. It's purely theological politics, a kind that seems to be in decline given the ever-increasing necessity for materialistic arguments.

They do not expect us to take them seriously. Ever. Their arguments will only resonate with those that find their particular brand of faith first. Religion - and religious interpretations aligned with them - are required to believe in whatever they're peddling. It's not rational argumentation, nor is it evidence-based.

This is correct. Liberal priests are not my Priests.

I have no desire to be "take[n] seriously" by members of that cult.

It's a thing, though as with all things related Christianism, its importance varies from person to person. Some people don't give a fuck, others will discriminate openly against divorcees. It has less to do with the nuclear family and more to do with Christian marriage being, supposedly, a life-long ordeal. When it goes wrong, relationships with the Church are... complicated.

It's an unfortunate thing, truly. Quite a bit more grace on the issue of divorce, given the nature of contemporary culture, would benefit many.

The Church has its prescriptions. It's prescriptions are, to my mind, reasonable.

No, you really don't seem to care about people being left alone to do as they please, free from government restriction. Which makes it very annoying when you decry "liberalism" or "democracy" for supposedly being totalizing and coercive, despite the fact that you have no issue whatsoever with coercion.

You talk about how what a lot of us are saying has no relevance to you, since our positions are based on values which you don't believe in. But why then should we take you seriously when you appeal to values that you don't even believe in?

Correct. I see no issue with coercion, qua coercion. I just won't pretend liberalism presents anything remotely opposite of coercion. I won't play the game of fantasy. I live in a liberal society. It makes sense that liberal institutions and advocates would seek to enforce their worldview on me... and that they would be absolutely confused by my refusal to reflect it back at them. Your values are not mine. Your frame is not mine.

This is confusing. I do understand that.

Calling things cults because you're mad that they don't agree with you is very much irrational, and feels like theological whining.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Correct. I see no issue with coercion, qua coercion. I just won't pretend liberalism presents anything remotely opposite of coercion. I won't play the game of fantasy. I live in a liberal society. It makes sense that liberal institutions and advocates would seek to enforce their worldview on me... and that they would be absolutely confused by my refusal to reflect it back at them. Your values are not mine. Your frame is not mine.

This is confusing. I do understand that.

Okay, then stop complaining about liberalism for being coercive. You shouldn't be mad at liberalism for being coercive at all, you should be mad at it for coercing the wrong target.

You don't get to employ the rhetoric of liberty and anti-coercion when you don't hold those values at all. It's pathetic to complain that people are doing to you, what you would gleefully do to them if you had the chance.

[The Apollonian Systems]

I know so many Greeks who are against this but for me- meh. Who cares.

Does anyone want to also mention that Greece is (thus far) the only country with land in the Middle East that has legalised same sex marriage?

That Greece is on the opposite side of the sea from Anatolia is where we literally get the concept of Eastern vs Western civilizations. Greece is not in the Middle East.

[Australian rePublic]

I know so many Greeks who are against this but for me- meh. Who cares.

Does anyone want to also mention that Greece is (thus far) the only country with land in the Middle East that has legalised same sex marriage?

Middle East? By what definition?

You can't tell me that Chios, Rhodes, Samos, Lesvos, etc. etc. etc. are in Euirope...

[Alvecia]

Middle East? By what definition?

You can't tell me that Chios, Rhodes, Samos, Lesvos, etc. etc. etc. are in Euirope...

A quick google tells me the answer is "depends"

[Risottia]

Middle East? By what definition?

You can't tell me that Chios, Rhodes, Samos, Lesvos, etc. etc. etc. are in Euirope...

Politically they are in Europe. Culturally, same. Geographically, they're in the NEAR East a.k.a. Levant, not in the MIDDLE East.

[Distruzio]

Correct. I see no issue with coercion, qua coercion. I just won't pretend liberalism presents anything remotely opposite of coercion. I won't play the game of fantasy. I live in a liberal society. It makes sense that liberal institutions and advocates would seek to enforce their worldview on me... and that they would be absolutely confused by my refusal to reflect it back at them. Your values are not mine. Your frame is not mine.

This is confusing. I do understand that.

Okay, then stop complaining about liberalism for being coercive. You shouldn't be mad at liberalism for being coercive at all, you should be mad at it for coercing the wrong target.

You don't get to employ the rhetoric of liberty and anti-coercion when you don't hold those values at all. It's pathetic to complain that people are doing to you, what you would gleefully do to them if you had the chance.

Learn the definition of "complaining" and then revisit my comments.

Calling things cults because you're mad that they don't agree with you is very much irrational, and feels like theological whining.

You mistake disgust for anger.

qua coercion. I just won't pretend liberalism presents anything remotely opposite of coercion. I won't play the game of fantasy. I live in a liberal society. It makes sense that liberal institutions and advocates would seek to enforce their worldview on me... and that they would be absolutely confused by my refusal to reflect it back at them. Your values are not mine. Your frame is not mine.

This is confusing. I do understand that.

still waiting on any evidence at all that the orthodox church will be forced to gay marry people lmao

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

[Ifreann]

Okay, then stop complaining about liberalism for being coercive. You shouldn't be mad at liberalism for being coercive at all, you should be mad at it for coercing the wrong target.

You don't get to employ the rhetoric of liberty and anti-coercion when you don't hold those values at all. It's pathetic to complain that people are doing to you, what you would gleefully do to them if you had the chance.

Learn the definition of "complaining" and then revisit my comments.

Calling things cults because you're mad that they don't agree with you is very much irrational, and feels like theological whining.

You mistake disgust for anger.

still waiting on any evidence at all that the orthodox church will be forced to gay marry people lmao

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

Fellas, is it gay to marry a woman?

[Kernen]

Okay, then stop complaining about liberalism for being coercive. You shouldn't be mad at liberalism for being coercive at all, you should be mad at it for coercing the wrong target.

You don't get to employ the rhetoric of liberty and anti-coercion when you don't hold those values at all. It's pathetic to complain that people are doing to you, what you would gleefully do to them if you had the chance.

Learn the definition of "complaining" and then revisit my comments.

Calling things cults because you're mad that they don't agree with you is very much irrational, and feels like theological whining.

You mistake disgust for anger.

still waiting on any evidence at all that the orthodox church will be forced to gay marry people lmao

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

How is my marriage to a woman as a man gay?

[Port Carverton]

Correct. That should be their identity.

The child or the outwards appearance of heterosexuality?

Distruzio you still haven't answered this question

[The Apollonian Systems]

Learn the definition of "complaining" and then revisit my comments.



You mistake disgust for anger.



All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

Fellas, is it gay to marry a woman?

If they’re a straight woman, yes, because they like men, which is gay. Gay men also like men, making them gay. As such if you don’t want to be gay, you need to marry either a lesbian or a straight man, neither of who like men, making them not gay.

[The Apollonian Systems]

Okay, then stop complaining about liberalism for being coercive. You shouldn't be mad at liberalism for being coercive at all, you should be mad at it for coercing the wrong target.

You don't get to employ the rhetoric of liberty and anti-coercion when you don't hold those values at all. It's pathetic to complain that people are doing to you, what you would gleefully do to them if you had the chance.

Learn the definition of "complaining" and then revisit my comments.

Calling things cults because you're mad that they don't agree with you is very much irrational, and feels like theological whining.

You mistake disgust for anger.

still waiting on any evidence at all that the orthodox church will be forced to gay marry people lmao

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

Lol what

I am genuinely laughing at this.

So anyone who isn’t a die hard Christian is gay. Someone should go tell the Muslims that they’re all gay.

[Floofybit]

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

I feel betrayed that my heterosexual parents never told me they were gay.

[Kalaron]

Okay, then stop complaining about liberalism for being coercive. You shouldn't be mad at liberalism for being coercive at all, you should be mad at it for coercing the wrong target.

You don't get to employ the rhetoric of liberty and anti-coercion when you don't hold those values at all. It's pathetic to complain that people are doing to you, what you would gleefully do to them if you had the chance.

Learn the definition of "complaining" and then revisit my comments.

Calling things cults because you're mad that they don't agree with you is very much irrational, and feels like theological whining.

You mistake disgust for anger.

still waiting on any evidence at all that the orthodox church will be forced to gay marry people lmao

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

A disgust founded on an anger that they disagree, yeah .

[Ifreann]

Fellas, is it gay to marry a woman?

If they’re a straight woman, yes, because they like men, which is gay. Gay men also like men, making them gay. As such if you don’t want to be gay, you need to marry either a lesbian or a straight man, neither of who like men, making them not gay.

The only real straights are the asexuals.

[Distruzio]

The child or the outwards appearance of heterosexuality?

Distruzio you still haven't answered this question

Being parents.

So anyone who isn’t a die hard Christian is gay. Someone should go tell the Muslims that they’re all gay.

Correct.

All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.

I feel betrayed that my heterosexual parents never told me they were gay.

They can always seek a more proper marriage in the Church. A better way to phrase the comment is all secular marriage is gay marriage.

[Kernen]

Distruzio you still haven't answered this question

Being parents.

Odd. My wife and didn't stop being lovers and friends just because we became parents. Our identity isn't exclusive to our son.

[Floofybit]

Distruzio you still haven't answered this question

Being parents.

So anyone who isn’t a die hard Christian is gay. Someone should go tell the Muslims that they’re all gay.

Correct.

I feel betrayed that my heterosexual parents never told me they were gay.

They can always seek a more proper marriage in the Church. A better way to phrase the comment is all secular marriage is gay marriage.

What's wrong with a marriage in my church?

[Ifreann]

Being parents.

Odd. My wife and didn't stop being lovers and friends just because we became parents. Our identity isn't exclusive to our son.

Ah, but you see, you weren't married in the correct kind of religious ceremony. That means this lady you're talking about, she's not your wife, she's your husband.

[The Grand Economic Consortium]

It's quite surprising that this happened in a highly religious state, in which the orthodox church has a lot of influence in society, but surely a step forward. Here in Romania attitude towards members of the LGBTQ communityis predominantly negative, but, if it happened in Greece, a state with a culture so deeply rooted in religion, there is a chance that gay marriage will be legalized in Romania. Anyhow, I am not a member of the LGBTQ+ community myself, but they deserve equal rights to all. This is a matter of personal liberty.