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Who's next? Burma?!? Myanmar's nuclear program getting real

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Daistallia 2104
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Who's next? Burma?!? Myanmar's nuclear program getting real

Postby Daistallia 2104 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:39 am

As Tom Lehrer immortally asked "who's next?"

Could Burma Be Edging Closer to Nuclear Arms?

By Max Fisher on June 04, 2010 9:01am
Burma, which is ruled by one of the world's strictest and largest military juntas, has reportedly begun to secure some of the components necessary for a nuclear weapon. Burma's nuclear ambitions are nothing new, and it lacks the majority of the technical knowledge to actually complete a bomb, but these concrete steps indicate a new seriousness in pursuit of that goal. Here's why it matters.

* The Evidence for Nuclear Ambitions The Washington Post's Joby Warrick reports, "There have been numerous allegations in the past about secret nuclear activity by Burma's military rulers, accounts based largely on ambiguous satellite images and uncorroborated stories by defectors. But the new analysis is based on documents and hundreds of photos smuggled out of the country by Sai Thein Win, a Burmese major who says he visited key installations and attended meetings at which the new technology was demonstrated. ... Among the images provided by the major are technical drawings of a device known as a bomb-reduction vessel, which is chiefly used in the making of uranium metal for fuel rods and nuclear-weapons components. The defector also released a document purporting to show a Burmese government official ordering production of the device, as well as photos of the finished vessel. "

* North Korean Involvement? The Associated Press' Denis Gray writes, "North Korea is probably assisting the program, an expatriate media group said Friday. ... Last month, U.N. experts monitoring sanctions imposed against North Korea over its nuclear and missile tests said their research indicated it was involved in banned nuclear and ballistic missile activities in Iran, Syria and Burma."

* Why Sanctions Won't Work Burma scholar Morten Pedersen recently told Guernica magazine, "There’s no one outside the army that has influence on policy decisions. There’s a close business community. But while they’re close to the generals, they have no political influence." That is, the sanctions don't hurt the ruling class, and the ruling class doesn't care about the people hurt by sanctions. "The Burmese generals have no affinity at all with the people who are sanctioning them. Culturally, there’s no link whatsoever."

* Burma Trying to Make 'Indigenous' Missiles Arms Control Wonk blogger Geoffrey Forden explains that, rather than buying up most of the key components, Burma is trying to build missiles from scratch. "Burma is pursuing a least two different paths towards acquiring a missile production capability. One is a more or less indigenous path. The 'less indigenous' comes from the fact that they have sent a number of Burmese military officers to Moscow for training in engineering related to missile design and production." This news "has opened up the possibility of proliferation networks more as consulting engineering firms rather than one-stop-shopping centers."

* Key U.S. Senator Calls For Engaging Burma Senator Jim Webb, who leads the Senate Foreign Relations Asia subcommittee, has canceled a planned trip to Burma, but still maintains his call for engagement with the regime. Foreign Policy's Josh Rogin writes, "Webb also called on Obama to appoint a special envoy to Burma Thursday. That's significant because it was Webb's predecessor on the subcommittee, Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-CA, who prevented the last nominee from assuming the position. ... 'I strongly believe that a continuation of dialogue between our two countries is important for the evolution of a more open governmental system and for the future strategic balance in Southeast Asia,' Webb said, saying that could only happen when concerns about Burma's cooperation with North Korea are resolved."

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions ... -Arms-3861

So, NSG, what do you tthink - real threat, hand wringing, imaginary threat, or what? What, if anything, should be done>
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:41 am

Myanmar sucks and I hate it. Lets train all the Karen expats in Thailand and the US to go back and take over.

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Andaluciae
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Postby Andaluciae » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:44 am

Increasingly, I'm forced to lament for my conviction that nuclear weapons are bad, their use is bad, and that further proliferation is bad. They're utterly irredeemable, and while I hope for full abolition, someday, that someday is looking increasingly far out--although it might happen sooner than I'd like be people using them against other people en masse.
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Glorious Homeland
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Postby Glorious Homeland » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:42 pm

If China backs it, fairly soon. If it doesn't, a wee while away.

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Call to power
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Postby Call to power » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:54 pm

just when you fought it was safe to start ignoring North Korea.

The 'less indigenous' comes from the fact that they have sent a number of Burmese military officers to Moscow for training in engineering related to missile design and production."


dammit Russia you' so crazay!
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Islamic Hazarastan
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Postby Islamic Hazarastan » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:57 pm

This seems familiar for some inexplicable reason...
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Postby Helertia » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:58 pm

Meh, I hope this means people finally start paying attention to the country and apply pressure on the human rights front. But I doubt it.
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:00 pm

Glorious Homeland wrote:If China backs it, fairly soon. If it doesn't, a wee while away.

China has been their one and only friend for the past 20-30 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a hand in this as well...
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:01 pm

Helertia wrote:Meh, I hope this means people finally start paying attention to the country and apply pressure on the human rights front. But I doubt it.

whats the point, nothing will change. Look at NK, China and Iran. Sanctions and (external) political pressure don't work.
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Islamic Hazarastan
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Postby Islamic Hazarastan » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:02 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?
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Helertia
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Postby Helertia » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:02 pm

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Helertia wrote:Meh, I hope this means people finally start paying attention to the country and apply pressure on the human rights front. But I doubt it.

whats the point, nothing will change. Look at NK, China and Iran. Sanctions and (external) political pressure don't work.


Hence the doubt it. But still, Burma under close scrutiny is a good thing
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Helertia
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Postby Helertia » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:03 pm

Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Didn't stop the USSR... or the USA, for that matter
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Islamic Hazarastan
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Postby Islamic Hazarastan » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:04 pm

Helertia wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Didn't stop the USSR... or the USA, for that matter

Yeah. But isn't it crippled by civil war? It would be insane to build nukes in such instability.
Artwork thread|Rain sound ftw!
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Who are the oppressors? The few: the King, the capitalist, and a handful of other overseers and superintendents. Who are the oppressed? The many: the nations of the earth; the valuable personages; the workers; they that make the bread that the soft-handed and idle eat. - Mark Twain

Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty. - Ho Chi Minh
!لال سلام! انقلاب زنده باد
!میں پاکستانی ہوں، اور یہ اردو زبان ہے... عربی نہیں
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Helertia
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Postby Helertia » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:05 pm

Islamic Hazarastan wrote:
Helertia wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Didn't stop the USSR... or the USA, for that matter

Yeah. But isn't it crippled by civil war? It would be insane to build nukes in such instability.

Again, USSR & USA
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:05 pm

Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Yeah, they killed/nationalized all but the smallest businesses, except those of their cronies who support the Junta (but even those are fairly insignificant). But if NK could get a bomb with the state their economy is in, so can Burma.
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:06 pm

Islamic Hazarastan wrote:
Helertia wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Didn't stop the USSR... or the USA, for that matter

Yeah. But isn't it crippled by civil war? It would be insane to build nukes in such instability.

The civil war is confined to the jungles near Thailand.

E: more of an ethnic cleansing really, think of Kurds vs. Saddam.
Last edited by Lackadaisical2 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Islamic Hazarastan
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Postby Islamic Hazarastan » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:08 pm

Helertia wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:
Helertia wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Didn't stop the USSR... or the USA, for that matter

Yeah. But isn't it crippled by civil war? It would be insane to build nukes in such instability.

Again, USSR & USA

Yep, I guess. Shame, that there may be more nukes in the world.

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Yeah, they killed/nationalized all but the smallest businesses, except those of their cronies who support the Junta (but even those are fairly insignificant). But if NK could get a bomb with the state their economy is in, so can Burma.

True, NK is quite poor. I actually haven't seen any stats about it, though. In fact, I've read that it's growth rate is 3.7% or something.
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Who are the oppressors? The few: the King, the capitalist, and a handful of other overseers and superintendents. Who are the oppressed? The many: the nations of the earth; the valuable personages; the workers; they that make the bread that the soft-handed and idle eat. - Mark Twain

Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty. - Ho Chi Minh
!لال سلام! انقلاب زنده باد
!میں پاکستانی ہوں، اور یہ اردو زبان ہے... عربی نہیں
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Islamic Hazarastan
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Postby Islamic Hazarastan » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:09 pm

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:
Helertia wrote:
Islamic Hazarastan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Burma/Myanmar really, really poor?

Didn't stop the USSR... or the USA, for that matter

Yeah. But isn't it crippled by civil war? It would be insane to build nukes in such instability.

The civil war is confined to the jungles near Thailand.

E: more of an ethnic cleansing really, think of Kurds vs. Saddam.

Ah. Violence of the worst kind.
Artwork thread|Rain sound ftw!
Muslim, socialist, and anime fan ^__^
Who are the oppressors? The few: the King, the capitalist, and a handful of other overseers and superintendents. Who are the oppressed? The many: the nations of the earth; the valuable personages; the workers; they that make the bread that the soft-handed and idle eat. - Mark Twain

Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty. - Ho Chi Minh
!لال سلام! انقلاب زنده باد
!میں پاکستانی ہوں، اور یہ اردو زبان ہے... عربی نہیں
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Postby East Fancainia » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:11 pm

Lackadaisical2 wrote:Myanmar sucks and I hate it. Lets train all the Karen expats in Thailand and the US to go back and take over.

>>
<<

What about the Bay of Pigs Invasion?

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Postby Farnhamia » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:21 pm

Last edited by Farnhamia on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shofercia » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:37 pm

Call to power wrote:just when you fought it was safe to start ignoring North Korea.

The 'less indigenous' comes from the fact that they have sent a number of Burmese military officers to Moscow for training in engineering related to missile design and production."


dammit Russia you' so crazay!


I somehow doubt that Russia will give Burma anything except cruise missile technology, which over half of the World already has.
Burma Trying to Make 'Indigenous' Missiles Arms Control Wonk blogger Geoffrey Forden explains that, rather than buying up most of the key components, Burma is trying to build missiles from scratch. "Burma is pursuing a least two different paths towards acquiring a missile production capability. One is a more or less indigenous path. The 'less indigenous' comes from the fact that they have sent a number of Burmese military officers to Moscow for training in engineering related to missile design and production." This news "has opened up the possibility of proliferation networks more as consulting engineering firms rather than one-stop-shopping centers."


That being said, Russia should've still rejected it, but I doubt Russia is just going to give away Topol technology to Burma.
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Postby South Norwega » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:41 pm

There was something in The Australian about Burma and nukes sometime last year, IIRC.

I'll attempt to dig the link up.
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Postby Caninope » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:45 pm

Just crazy. Pure crazy.
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Postby Sun Aut Ex » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:50 pm

EXACTLY the reason why the UN should have more power and possibly it's own standing army.

Breaking the NNPT should constitute a solid casus belli for any complying NNPT signatory.
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Postby Cosmopoles » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:00 pm

I suppose it is a good thing that only international pariahs feel the need to have more nuclear weapons these days. Trouble is they are harder to persuade to stop doing it.

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