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American Politics: Supreme Court rejects 14th Amendment

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Dtn
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Ex-Nation

Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:03 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Valles Marineris Mining co wrote:I mean let’s be honest, Trump is de-facto above the law at this point with the amount of times he gotten away with shit.

The logical consequence of your position is that Trump should be above the law. All the cases against him should immediately be dropped


Yes, Trump and everybody involved in Jan 6 should be offered amnesty.
Last edited by Dtn on Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:14 pm

Makko Oko wrote:
Port Carverton wrote:The south not facing the consequences... of being at the border?

There are times in my life when I've felt genuinely happy, so in my opinion yes.


They literally trafficked them (illegally mind you, that's how they entered to begin with) to the northern states for being blue and "protecting illegal immigrants from ICE". They are doing nothing except costing the taxpayers money and not being charged with crimes that us common folk would have been for doing exactly the same thing. What really tickles me is that TSA and the FAA both have jurisdiction over all the airspace of the US, so they COULD stop those flights, but they dont.


How do you propose the TSA and FAA do that? I don;t understand why mayors of these cities don't turn these buses around.

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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:17 pm

Let's see what 2024 brings us.
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Bradfordville
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Postby Bradfordville » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:30 pm

Dtn wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The logical consequence of your position is that Trump should be above the law. All the cases against him should immediately be dropped


Yes, Trump and everybody involved in Jan 6 should be offered amnesty.


The opposite side of the coin from "boot him off the ballot colorado!"

I'd be generous if I said it was an equally bad idea.
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Bradfordville
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Postby Bradfordville » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:30 pm

Jolthig wrote:Let's see what 2024 brings us.


Just pain. :(
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:35 pm

Makko Oko wrote:
Port Carverton wrote:The south not facing the consequences... of being at the border?

There are times in my life when I've felt genuinely happy, so in my opinion yes.


They literally trafficked them (illegally mind you, that's how they entered to begin with) to the northern states for being blue and "protecting illegal immigrants from ICE". They are doing nothing except costing the taxpayers money and not being charged with crimes


what crimes

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Haganham
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Haganham » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:40 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:
They literally trafficked them (illegally mind you, that's how they entered to begin with) to the northern states for being blue and "protecting illegal immigrants from ICE". They are doing nothing except costing the taxpayers money and not being charged with crimes that us common folk would have been for doing exactly the same thing. What really tickles me is that TSA and the FAA both have jurisdiction over all the airspace of the US, so they COULD stop those flights, but they dont.


How do you propose the TSA and FAA do that? I don;t understand why mayors of these cities don't turn these buses around.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0621.htm

Jolthig wrote:Let's see what 2024 brings us.

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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:44 pm

Kalaron wrote:
Bradfordville wrote:
It's weird to me how there's a bunch of dudes watching videos on how to pick up girls, and meanwhile for me it just happened. It really wasn't that complicated. "I like you." "I like you Dawg, let's go on a date."

This younger generation really is fucked, ain't it?

If things keep going as they are, yeah kinda. If more people start doing the Vaush thing and actually tackle incel-shit as being a result of actual systemic problems facing men and women, possibly not? If the Left adapts to give actual advice for men that doesn't just lead to young men getting mad and feeling insulted, then we can turn this shit around...or at least partially fix it. Nothing will solve the alienation that capitalism causes except for it's extinction prolly.

Then again, if you listen to Bill Maher like Lumen does, then you'll probably say the answer is for guys to stop watching superhero movies and shave...so the older generations won't really be of much help like always.

Treating it as a symptom of systemic problems which should be rationally analyzed and resolved would certainly be a better approach than self-destructive accusative kneejerk reactions.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:50 pm

Jolthig wrote:Let's see what 2024 brings us.

According to legend; Irish reunification via terrorism, Neo-Trotskyists seizing power in France, a "booming" real estate market, a crewed space mission to visit a moon, and destructive riots in San Francisco which trigger genuine social change in the United States.

The real estate market one seems unlikely.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:52 pm

Bradfordville wrote:
Dtn wrote:
Yes, Trump and everybody involved in Jan 6 should be offered amnesty.


The opposite side of the coin from "boot him off the ballot colorado!"

I'd be generous if I said it was an equally bad idea.


Yeah we should probably keep playing to his strengths and upping the stakes.

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Makko Oko
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Postby Makko Oko » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:58 pm

Dtn wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:
They literally trafficked them (illegally mind you, that's how they entered to begin with) to the northern states for being blue and "protecting illegal immigrants from ICE". They are doing nothing except costing the taxpayers money and not being charged with crimes


what crimes


Human trafficking, kidnapping, illegally transporting or assisting in the unlawful entry of an illegal alien, I can go on
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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:00 pm

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Let's see what 2024 brings us.

According to legend; Irish reunification via terrorism, Neo-Trotskyists seizing power in France, a "booming" real estate market, a crewed space mission to visit a moon, and destructive riots in San Francisco which trigger genuine social change in the United States.

The real estate market one seems unlikely.

Also the election of Presidents Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:04 pm

Bradfordville wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Let's see what 2024 brings us.


Just pain. :(

God willing, I hope we make a good choice for president that (and not yet this) year.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:08 pm

Makko Oko wrote:
Dtn wrote:
what crimes


Human trafficking, kidnapping, illegally transporting or assisting in the unlawful entry of an illegal alien, I can go on


You probably could. The Texas program is carefully planned not to violate any laws, though. The migrants have been processed and released by Homeland Security so they’re free to move about the country and the transportation is voluntary - in fact it’s mostly organized by Texas migrant relief organizations.

It’s a political stunt designed to take advantage of federal law, not violate it.

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Makko Oko
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Makko Oko » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:10 pm

Added a new poll. I'll leave it up for now (or until their primaries end).

Dtn wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:
Human trafficking, kidnapping, illegally transporting or assisting in the unlawful entry of an illegal alien, I can go on


You probably could. The Texas program is carefully planned not to violate any laws, though. The migrants have been processed and released by Homeland Security so they’re free to move about the country and the transportation is voluntary - in fact it’s mostly organized by Texas migrant relief organizations.

It’s a political stunt designed to take advantage of federal law, not violate it.


Still...the receiving states should have to consent. For a party that screams bloody murder about border control and "migrants taking our jobs" they sure don't care about them being able to stay in the country due to them being shipped off like a FedEx package over to a city/state that hates ICE.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:15 pm

Bradfordville wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The logical consequence of your position is that Trump should be above the law. All the cases against him should immediately be dropped and he should simply be allowed to become President again. Now. Otherwise it would set the precedent that you can use the courts to stop someone from becoming President and then the right will do that against every Democrat ever.


There's a gulf of difference between a state level court booting trump off the ballot for a crime he allegedly committed, and an actual criminal investigation in multiple states you know.

No, there really isn't. The law sets out consequences for Trump's actions. The application of those consequences is being decided in court. You, and others, think this is a mistake, and that Trump ought not face the legal consequences of his actions because this will set a precedent that Republicans will use to arbitrarily deny Democrats their rights. You all seem to believe that Republican-aligned judges are so completely devoid of principles and integrity that they will effectively make it illegal to for a Democrat to win the White House, but also that they are so deeply principled and have such unshakeable integrity that they will do this IF AND ONLY IF the precedent is set that Donald Trump can face legal consequences for his actions.


San Lumen wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:
They literally trafficked them (illegally mind you, that's how they entered to begin with) to the northern states for being blue and "protecting illegal immigrants from ICE". They are doing nothing except costing the taxpayers money and not being charged with crimes that us common folk would have been for doing exactly the same thing. What really tickles me is that TSA and the FAA both have jurisdiction over all the airspace of the US, so they COULD stop those flights, but they dont.


How do you propose the TSA and FAA do that? I don;t understand why mayors of these cities don't turn these buses around.

You'd have to be pretty heartless to leave a busload of vulnerable people to the tender mercies of a Republican governor.
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Dtn
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Ex-Nation

Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:18 pm

Makko Oko wrote:Added a new poll. I'll leave it up for now (or until their primaries end).

Dtn wrote:
You probably could. The Texas program is carefully planned not to violate any laws, though. The migrants have been processed and released by Homeland Security so they’re free to move about the country and the transportation is voluntary - in fact it’s mostly organized by Texas migrant relief organizations.

It’s a political stunt designed to take advantage of federal law, not violate it.


Still...the receiving states should have to consent


States can’t refuse entry to migrants allowed in by federal agencies.

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Makko Oko
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Makko Oko » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:27 pm

Dtn wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:Added a new poll. I'll leave it up for now (or until their primaries end).



Still...the receiving states should have to consent


States can’t refuse entry to migrants allowed in by federal agencies.


Technically not wrong. Let's debate about your legality point. The DOJ threatened to sue the State of Texas if they chose to continue the path of mandating that their local law enforcement agencies start enforcing immigration law. Not to mention that taxpayers have shelled out $75.5 million for this so-called migrant assistance program. Immigration is not a devolved matter, and falls solely on the federal government. Let them handle what they need to handle. They also made illegal entry a state crime meaning they are defying THEIR OWN LAWS to let them essentially become fugitives of the state. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if they refused to "consent" that they would be charged with state crimes and possibly become a felon for life.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:41 pm

You don’t seem to understand how migrants are handled at the border.

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Elwher
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Elwher » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:45 pm

Makko Oko wrote:Added a new poll. I'll leave it up for now (or until their primaries end).

Dtn wrote:
You probably could. The Texas program is carefully planned not to violate any laws, though. The migrants have been processed and released by Homeland Security so they’re free to move about the country and the transportation is voluntary - in fact it’s mostly organized by Texas migrant relief organizations.

It’s a political stunt designed to take advantage of federal law, not violate it.


Still...the receiving states should have to consent. For a party that screams bloody murder about border control and "migrants taking our jobs" they sure don't care about them being able to stay in the country due to them being shipped off like a FedEx package over to a city/state that hates ICE.


Did Texas consent to having them in the first place? Why should New York be treated better than Texas?
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Makko Oko
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Makko Oko » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:50 pm

Dtn wrote:You don’t seem to understand how migrants are handled at the border.


I understand that state police can offer assistance however they cannot essentially replace ICE (which is what they are seemingly trying to do)

Elwher wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:Added a new poll. I'll leave it up for now (or until their primaries end).



Still...the receiving states should have to consent. For a party that screams bloody murder about border control and "migrants taking our jobs" they sure don't care about them being able to stay in the country due to them being shipped off like a FedEx package over to a city/state that hates ICE.


Did Texas consent to having them in the first place? Why should New York be treated better than Texas?


No. That is a fair conclusion to make on the subject, doesn't excuse them from being able to flood another state so much that they are considering budget cuts.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:14 pm

Once migrants are processed by Homeland Security, they’re released into the care of local governments and charities. Since border towns, even with (inadequate) federal reimbursements, can’t possibly absorb the number of people coming across the border, everyone offers them transportation- progressive cities like El Paso, the Catholic Church, mutual aid societies, even the federal government! Texas state buses are mostly organized by the Val Verde Humanitarian Coalition.

Since it’s a political stunt, Abbot highly publicized the state funding some of this. As usual, we gave someone who thrives on being an agent of chaos exactly what he wanted by portraying him as solely responsible for the crisis in northern cities despite Operation Lonestar accounting for a small percentage of the arrivals.


No. That is a fair conclusion to make on the subject, doesn't excuse them from being able to flood another state so much that they are considering budget cuts.


The buses come from Del Rio and Eagle Pass, with a combined population of around 50,000. If they can overwhelm New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, DC, and LA that probably says something.
Last edited by Dtn on Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Untecna
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Untecna » Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:58 pm

Bradfordville wrote:
Eahland wrote:They don't need an excuse to escalate it. They're going to do that anyway. They just need people to keep saying that they shouldn't face any consequences for their continued escalation because that might upset them.


The consequence should be decided by a majority of Americans on election day. Not by a state level court. The Supreme Court deciding it is between those two options. Not the best, not the worst.

The reason a state makes that decision is that the states control how elections work in their borders. If a court decides that, based on their judgement of the evidence, someone should not be able to run in that state, either on the local, state, or federal level, they can and should be able to.

That's not to say that such judgement is eternally absolute, but it has to be recognized that some cases are genuine and others are political farces intended to harm the chances of the genuine ones. And merely saying that a court's judgement is not eternally absolute will never be an argument against taking power away from a court of law.

This "enlightened centrist" opinion you are trying to take is awful, and frankly harmful for our democracy. There is a large amount of evidence that points to Trump being, in some part, involved in J6 and therefore ineligible thanks to the 14th Amendment. Just because it could benefit his opponents does not mean that his opponents are trying to sabotage his campaign. Rather, he sabotaged his own campaign by encouraging insurrection and letting the danger escalate and not to anything about it. The justice system has simply gotten the pieces together under another administration.
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Tokoloho
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tokoloho » Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:27 pm

We need more Democratic candidates. Biden is aging and I really don't trust his ability to survive long enough to finish out a second term with how stressful being the president is and how much of a toll stress takes on the human body.
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:40 pm

"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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