American Politics: Supreme Court rejects 14th Amendment

[Uiiop]

You know, I'm not fond of the idea of trump just being booted from the ballot, but the best thing that could happen in that regard would honestly be if the Supreme Court were the people who handed that ruling down, both because they are a court that is expected to weigh in on national level issues, and because they're majority republican.

Maybe it would send a bit of a message if trump's very people threw him overboard. A better message anyways than random ass states deciding on their own accord whether trump should be allowed to run or not.

The Centennial State is certainly trying it's damnest to make that case to them. I'll say that much.

[Bradfordville]

Race riots that did not touch most of white middle class America, which at the time lived in suburbs that were all but no go zones for black folks. Look, the 60s was fucked, but there was a bubble of security (maybe a false sense of security) around middle class white america that is lacking in this era.

And I'm just gonna get ahead of some of you here, and say that this doesn't mean the world was better or was safe. Just that a subset of mankind didn't realize how bad things were, and could live in ignorant bliss, unlike now. Now, you can't change the channel.

How could white middle class people ignore the assassination of the president and his brother, and a war?

Because the war isn't on the home front. And the assassinations, as bad as they were, were of a president and his brother. That's not gonna scare people the way that a random massacre at the minimart or a drug overdose next door will. Now, maybe a presidential candidate threatening to jail his opponents shares more in common with it.

I mean really, what sounds more scary to you? A high ranking politician being shot, or 10 people being murdered in your local target by a nutjob who left no manifesto explaining his actions and who had hundreds of rounds of ammo?

[Eahland]

It would set a bad precedent to follow the law, because some other people might violate the law? Like why should we let people withdraw money from the bank, just because they have an account there: won't that encourage bank robbers?

You’re not understanding what I’m saying.

Trump getting banned from primaries sets a bad precedent for democracy as a whole because it means any state can ban anyone they want if they flaunt enough legal jargon and mumbo jumbo.

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

[Shrillland]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying.

Trump getting banned from primaries sets a bad precedent for democracy as a whole because it means any state can ban anyone they want if they flaunt enough legal jargon and mumbo jumbo.

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

SCOTUS will decide that, and since no precedent since Reconstruction exists, they can basically say that only someone convicted of such acts can be disqualified, which they probably will.

[Bradfordville]

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

SCOTUS will decide that, and since no precedent since Reconstruction exists, they can basically say that only someone convicted of such acts can be disqualified, which they probably will.

Which is probably the best thing that could happen. If Trump committed an insurrection, charge him with it, and try him in a court of law. Why the hell would we be banning him from a ballot for a federal level crime, and he's not being prosecuted for said crime? Seems ass backwards.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying.

Trump getting banned from primaries sets a bad precedent for democracy as a whole because it means any state can ban anyone they want if they flaunt enough legal jargon and mumbo jumbo.

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

I’m not saying the Democrats are acting in bad faith towards trump. However this will just be more fuel for the fire for people who think the election is rigged because the govt is now actively attacking trump. These actions by the democrats can the be used by the GOP for more nefarious means. Bradfordville worded it better.

How could white middle class people ignore the assassination of the president and his brother, and a war?

Because the war isn't on the home front. And the assassinations, as bad as they were, were of a president and his brother. That's not gonna scare people the way that a random massacre at the minimart or a drug overdose next door will. Now, maybe a presidential candidate threatening to jail his opponents shares more in common with it.

I mean really, what sounds more scary to you? A high ranking politician being shot, or 10 people being murdered in your local target by a nutjob who left no manifesto explaining his actions and who had hundreds of rounds of ammo?

The manifestos that do get left behind are either

A. Some racist schizo rant

B. Incel ranting

While I can sympathize with the second one, because men’s mental health in society is largely ignored, the first is just outright a hate crime.

[Uiiop]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying.

Trump getting banned from primaries sets a bad precedent for democracy as a whole because it means any state can ban anyone they want if they flaunt enough legal jargon and mumbo jumbo.

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Why not both? The current charges are trying to be "close enough but not really" an insurrectionist.

I'm not saying he isn't just that prosecutor can't be assed to really agreed with us and are being insecure for no good reason.

[Bradfordville]

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Why not both? The current charges are trying to be "close enough but not really" an insurrectionist.

I'm not saying he isn't just that prosecutor can't be assed to really agreed with us and are being insecure for no good reason.

I'm really wondering if they're ever gonna hit Trump with charges on insurrection.

[Stellar Colonies]

Race riots that did not touch most of white middle class America, which at the time lived in suburbs that were all but no go zones for black folks. Look, the 60s was fucked, but there was a bubble of security (maybe a false sense of security) around middle class white america that is lacking in this era.

And I'm just gonna get ahead of some of you here, and say that this doesn't mean the world was better or was safe. Just that a subset of mankind didn't realize how bad things were, and could live in ignorant bliss, unlike now. Now, you can't change the channel.

How could white middle class people ignore the assassination of the president and his brother, and a war?

Conscription forcing men to be shipped off to Vietnam to face the prospect of dying horrible deaths in the jungle probably punctured that bubble just a little as well.

[Eahland]

No, you're not understanding what you're saying. This isn't some crazy legalism shit the Democrats cooked up to Git Trump. This is the plain text of the 14th Amendment being enforced. Trump does not meet the Constitutional requirements to be President, per Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

I’m not saying the Democrats are acting in bad faith towards trump. However this will just be more fuel for the fire for people who think the election is rigged because the govt is now actively attacking trump. These actions by the democrats can the be used by the GOP for more nefarious means. Bradfordville worded it better.

They're going to do that anyway, because they've gone all in on ending American democracy. What you're saying is that we should just let them do it.

[Bradfordville]

I’m not saying the Democrats are acting in bad faith towards trump. However this will just be more fuel for the fire for people who think the election is rigged because the govt is now actively attacking trump. These actions by the democrats can the be used by the GOP for more nefarious means. Bradfordville worded it better.

They're going to do that anyway, because they've gone all in on ending American democracy. What you're saying is that we should just let them do it.

They're gonna end democracy if Trump isn't removed from the ballot? Originally his ass cheeks at least had to touch the chair in front of the resolute desk before that could happen. He doesn't even need to wait and see if he wins the election before doing it now?

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

I’m not saying the Democrats are acting in bad faith towards trump. However this will just be more fuel for the fire for people who think the election is rigged because the govt is now actively attacking trump. These actions by the democrats can the be used by the GOP for more nefarious means. Bradfordville worded it better.

They're going to do that anyway, because they've gone all in on ending American democracy. What you're saying is that we should just let them do it.

No Im not saying we should let them, I’m saying do what we are doing now just gives the GOP and excuse to escalate it.

[Uiiop]

Why not both? The current charges are trying to be "close enough but not really" an insurrectionist.

I'm not saying he isn't just that prosecutor can't be assed to really agreed with us and are being insecure for no good reason.

I'm really wondering if they're ever gonna hit Trump with charges on insurrection.

The idea that these charges would be strong enough to keep him in prison once sentenced but not strong enough to make republicans escalate and fight it just sounds very naive.

[Ifreann]

It would set a bad precedent to follow the law, because some other people might violate the law? Like why should we let people withdraw money from the bank, just because they have an account there: won't that encourage bank robbers?

You’re not understanding what I’m saying.

Trump getting banned from primaries sets a bad precedent for democracy as a whole because it means any state can ban anyone they want if they flaunt enough legal jargon and mumbo jumbo.

By this logic, Trump losing his case against E. Jean Carroll sets a terrible precedent because now Republican judges can just find Biden liable for raping a woman. Any of the million times Trump lost in court means that courts will rule against Biden! Any of Trump's executive orders being challenged in court means all of Biden's will be challenged! The only course of action is for Trump to have total immunity from all the law, otherwise the evil Republicans will sentence Biden to death for being a loser.

[Eahland]

They're going to do that anyway, because they've gone all in on ending American democracy. What you're saying is that we should just let them do it.

No Im not saying we should let them, I’m saying do what we are doing now just gives the GOP and excuse to escalate it.

They don't need an excuse to escalate it. They're going to do that anyway. They just need people to keep saying that they shouldn't face any consequences for their continued escalation because that might upset them.

[Kalaron]

They're going to do that anyway, because they've gone all in on ending American democracy. What you're saying is that we should just let them do it.

No Im not saying we should let them, I’m saying do what we are doing now just gives the GOP and excuse to escalate it.

In fairness, they don't really need an excuse. I remind everyone, again, that after something like 60+ cases of election fraud getting smacked down, time and again, for not providing any evidence in the slightest, there's still huge crowds of people in TP-USA who are gung-ho about murdering democrats.

I don't think anyone that isn't already, at least to some degree, pro-Trump (and consequently pro-authoritarianism) is going to be swayed by this...like at all. There really is two sides here, and a fake side that doesn't really exist but has people under it because centrism is just a way of framing your political viewpoints as apolitical. One side wants Trump to not get into power (because he keeps saying he'll obliterate democracy), the other side keeps wanting to get Trump into power (In part because he'll destroy democracy), and then the fake side acts offended because they're tacitly pro-Trump and are mad when other people break the system, because contrarianism.

[Uiiop]

No Im not saying we should let them, I’m saying do what we are doing now just gives the GOP and excuse to escalate it.

They don't need an excuse to escalate it. They're going to do that anyway. They just need people to keep saying that they shouldn't face any consequences for their continued escalation because that might upset them.

They should thought of it before taking until this part of the year to charge him. And not charge him for the crime you're kicking him out for at that!

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying.

Trump getting banned from primaries sets a bad precedent for democracy as a whole because it means any state can ban anyone they want if they flaunt enough legal jargon and mumbo jumbo.

By this logic, Trump losing his case against E. Jean Carroll sets a terrible precedent because now Republican judges can just find Biden liable for raping a woman. Any of the million times Trump lost in court means that courts will rule against Biden! Any of Trump's executive orders being challenged in court means all of Biden's will be challenged! The only course of action is for Trump to have total immunity from all the law, otherwise the evil Republicans will sentence Biden to death for being a loser.

I mean let’s be honest, Trump is de-facto above the law at this point with the amount of times he gotten away with shit.

[Bradfordville]

No Im not saying we should let them, I’m saying do what we are doing now just gives the GOP and excuse to escalate it.

They don't need an excuse to escalate it. They're going to do that anyway. They just need people to keep saying that they shouldn't face any consequences for their continued escalation because that might upset them.

The consequence should be decided by a majority of Americans on election day. Not by a state level court. The Supreme Court deciding it is between those two options. Not the best, not the worst.

[Bradfordville]

They don't need an excuse to escalate it. They're going to do that anyway. They just need people to keep saying that they shouldn't face any consequences for their continued escalation because that might upset them.

They should thought of it before taking until this part of the year to charge him. And not charge him for the crime you're kicking him out for at that!

In a better world, he'd be facing criminal charges for insurrection BEFORE being thrown off the ballot. Both so there is a stronger case for why he shouldn't be allowed to run, and also because he should face worse punishment for an insurrection than just not being able to run for president, while still being allowed to be a free man with too much access to social media.

[San Lumen]

They should thought of it before taking until this part of the year to charge him. And not charge him for the crime you're kicking him out for at that!

In a better world, he'd be facing criminal charges for insurrection BEFORE being thrown off the ballot. Both so there is a stronger case for why he shouldn't be allowed to run, and also because he should face worse punishment for an insurrection than just not being able to run for president, while still being allowed to be a free man with too much access to social media.

Trump isn't getting convicted because he is using every trick in the book to delay the trial. It ought to have started already.

[Kalaron]

By this logic, Trump losing his case against E. Jean Carroll sets a terrible precedent because now Republican judges can just find Biden liable for raping a woman. Any of the million times Trump lost in court means that courts will rule against Biden! Any of Trump's executive orders being challenged in court means all of Biden's will be challenged! The only course of action is for Trump to have total immunity from all the law, otherwise the evil Republicans will sentence Biden to death for being a loser.

I mean let’s be honest, Trump is de-facto above the law at this point with the amount of times he gotten away with shit.

But that's the problem. Literally any attempt to punish him is going to be seen as "the system attacking him!!!!!!" by the people inclined to support him. All this new case does is give people that are against him something to bitch about, because they'll optics-frog about how bad this looks to a fake middle-ground.
No one is going to be like "My god, Trump is right" after seeing him scream that he'll suspend the constitution, exact retribution on those who punish him, and become a dictator that's beloved by the people, because some Democrat was dumb. Especially since the system is actually going to reaffirm his right to run anyway. Anyone that *does* do that would already have supported him in becoming a dictator, they're just the type that likes to hide behind saying "Well, I'm a centrist" because they think "Centrism" sounds more exotic and contrarian.

[Eahland]

By this logic, Trump losing his case against E. Jean Carroll sets a terrible precedent because now Republican judges can just find Biden liable for raping a woman. Any of the million times Trump lost in court means that courts will rule against Biden! Any of Trump's executive orders being challenged in court means all of Biden's will be challenged! The only course of action is for Trump to have total immunity from all the law, otherwise the evil Republicans will sentence Biden to death for being a loser.

I mean let’s be honest, Trump is de-facto above the law at this point with the amount of times he gotten away with shit.

And you think the solution to this is to shriek about how mad it'll make his supporters if he actually faces legal consequences for once?

[Uiiop]

They should thought of it before taking until this part of the year to charge him. And not charge him for the crime you're kicking him out for at that!

In a better world, he'd be facing criminal charges for insurrection BEFORE being thrown off the ballot. Both so there is a stronger case for why he shouldn't be allowed to run, and also because he should face worse punishment for an insurrection than just not being able to run for president, while still being allowed to be a free man with too much access to social media.

I suspect politicians bought into their own hype and had different ideas about how the "Rule of law" worked and rather than try to advocate for they just left to every cautious individuals who thought they could compromise with republicans into getting him convicted on a lagged down and watered down process.

The former response to the latter is merely pretend they got what they wanted.

[San Lumen]

They should thought of it before taking until this part of the year to charge him. And not charge him for the crime you're kicking him out for at that!

In a better world, he'd be facing criminal charges for insurrection BEFORE being thrown off the ballot. Both so there is a stronger case for why he shouldn't be allowed to run, and also because he should face worse punishment for an insurrection than just not being able to run for president, while still being allowed to be a free man with too much access to social media.

In a better world his opponents would be criticizing him not acting like the controlled opposition in Russia and other former Soviet states and members of his party would be throwing him under the bus left and right not parroting his lies.