RU Supreme Court Declares LGBTQ Activism "Extremist"

[Suriyanakhon]

The basic rule of democracy is decisions should be taken according to the wish of the common populace.

Popular opinion doesn't trump the human rights of Russia's LGBTQ+ citizens.

[Talibanada]

Activist orgs are frequently a front for the U.S. and N.A.T.O. to conduct psyops and meddle in other countries' affairs. Russia is right to shut out these unpatriotic foreign movements. Please note that I am not talking about the L.G.B.T. populace as a whole, but organized movements with a defined leadership, legal incorporation (e.g. 503(c) registered nonprofits), and brand identity (e.g. logo / slogan / official website).

[San Marlindo]

The vague language of the ruling, and the broad manner in which it may be interpreted by the authorities, is quite interesting - and is what a lot of Russian commentators I follow are concerned about.

For example, it's not clear whether this would criminalize display of the rainbow flag or not. The state would have to prove that the rainbow flag is being displayed for the purposes of activism and not some other innocuous purpose, etc.

It's also not clear whether this criminalizes making any kind of declarative statement - such as "coming out" - as LGBTQ "activism".

The Russian courts may be tangled up in cases for decades to come as to what constitutes LGBTQ activism or propaganda and what doesn't.

Nuances like that aside, this of course is the final nail in the coffin of mainstream LGBTQ activism in Russia - it was already becoming quite impossible to join, organize, or fund LGBTQ advocacy organizations there starting in the 2010s, but this just cinches it.

[Bradfordville]

Good for Russia. Every now and then, they do something right

Nah, they still did something wrong. And I'll once again ask in vain why fucking with the gays is so important to so many people. Some say it's cause God demands it and will murder everyone if people stop murdering gay people. But for the more secular...why?

[Deblar]

Activist orgs are frequently a front for the U.S. and N.A.T.O. to conduct psyops and meddle in other countries' affairs. Russia is right to shut out these unpatriotic foreign movements. Please note that I am not talking about the L.G.B.T. populace as a whole, but organized movements with a defined leadership, legal incorporation (e.g. 503(c) registered nonprofits), and brand identity (e.g. logo / slogan / official website).

Organized movements that were already few and far between in Russia to begin with since they made it almost impossible to organize them?

[Necroghastia]

Activist orgs are frequently a front for the U.S. and N.A.T.O. to conduct psyops and meddle in other countries' affairs. Russia is right to shut out these unpatriotic foreign movements. Please note that I am not talking about the L.G.B.T. populace as a whole, but organized movements with a defined leadership, legal incorporation (e.g. 503(c) registered nonprofits), and brand identity (e.g. logo / slogan / official website).

"unpatriotic" is losing more and more meaning each day

[Talibanada]

Activist orgs are frequently a front for the U.S. and N.A.T.O. to conduct psyops and meddle in other countries' affairs. Russia is right to shut out these unpatriotic foreign movements. Please note that I am not talking about the L.G.B.T. populace as a whole, but organized movements with a defined leadership, legal incorporation (e.g. 503(c) registered nonprofits), and brand identity (e.g. logo / slogan / official website).

Organized movements that were already few and far between in Russia to begin with since they made it almost impossible to organize them?

But they could still access the foreign websites and copy the logos and slogans. To me that counts as supporting a foreign organized movement.

[Second Dimetrodon Empire]

Organized movements that were already few and far between in Russia to begin with since they made it almost impossible to organize them?

But they could still access the foreign websites and copy the logos and slogans. To me that counts as supporting a foreign organized movement.

If pushing for lgbtq+ rights constitutes an organized movement, it is hard to call that a travesty.

[Consernt]

Well here is one thing, Gas them all, kill them is the best solution

[Sannyamathland]

It's high time that Westerners realise that the rest of the world doesn't revolve around them. Different cultures have different values. Just because Western Europe tolerates and even encourages the extremist gender ideology doesn't automatically mean the rest of the world will as well. A majority of the Russian have repeatedly stated that they oppose allowing homosexuality and all kinds of these gender ideologies to become mainstream. 'A 2022 survey found that 74% of Russians said homosexuality should not be accepted by society (up from 60% in 2002), compared to 14% who said that homosexuality should be accepted by society' (I directly copypasted this from wikipidea). The basic rule of democracy is decisions should be taken according to the wish of the common populace. The Court just did that. Then who are we to criticise it? Why the fuck do the Westerners feel that they have the right to criticise such a law?

Also bold of you to call out the political dominance over the judiciary in Russia while such a thing exists in each and every country in the world. The very reason we see the very worst instances of the gender ideology being supported by the courts in Western countries is a proof of the same.

>Calls someone gay in a different thread
>Bro it's not an insult bro I'm joking bro
>Comes in here
>Anti-LGBT stance

Wow dude I'm so surprised this is a totally novel experience no one has ever pulled this trick before

I have never tried to hide who I am. Yes I am opposed to the LGBTQ movement in the Western countries, I have always opposed it and I will continue to oppose. Yes, I have supported the ruling in Uganda and I will continue to support it. Yes I support the ruling in Russia and I will continue to support it. I am not afraid of speaking out my mind. My response in the other thread was made in jest and was not a political statement, but that does not mean it invalidated some of the previous statements I made. I continue to stand by my statements. I take being called a hypocrite very seriously. I can be a lot of things, but I am not the spineless hypocrite that you are trying to paint me as.

Regarding the other responses, I am amazed by how a large majority completely failed to see my point. My whole argument was that Western values do not work in Russia and we should accept it. The modern concept of an ever increasing gender ideology is a byproduct of Western neoliberalism. And it is bold to assume that Western thoughts have no flaws, they do. I mean why do people need to celebrate something as private as sexuality? Why do you need to fly flags to show your sexuality? It is something that has been assigned to us at birth. We have no played no role in acquiring it, then why do people feel the need to depict them so openly? What is the purpose of a pride parade, apart from just celebrating sexuality? Most of these questions have no answer. But nevertheless these are part of modern Western values.

Similarly Russian values also have a lot of problematic areas which have no proper answers. But they are core parts of what defines the modern Russian society and we must respect them. It is unbecoming on our part to expect Russians to adopt our stupid values while foregoing their own indigenous values. Are these values oppressive? Yes they are. But so are Western values. It is oppressive to shame people for wanting a normal family unit with a working father and a homemaker mother looking after the children. Therefore my point was not to argue about which value is better, my point was that we should respect Russian courts for upholding Russian values, that's it.

[Bradfordville]

>Calls someone gay in a different thread
>Bro it's not an insult bro I'm joking bro
>Comes in here
>Anti-LGBT stance

Wow dude I'm so surprised this is a totally novel experience no one has ever pulled this trick before

I have never tried to hide who I am. Yes I am opposed to the LGBTQ movement in the Western countries, I have always opposed it and I will continue to oppose. Yes, I have supported the ruling in Uganda and I will continue to support it. Yes I support the ruling in Russia and I will continue to support it. I am not afraid of speaking out my mind. My response in the other thread was made in jest and was not a political statement, but that does not mean it invalidated some of the previous statements I made. I continue to stand by my statements. I take being called a hypocrite very seriously. I can be a lot of things, but I am not the spineless hypocrite that you are trying to paint me as.

Regarding the other responses, I am amazed by how a large majority completely failed to see my point. My whole argument was that Western values do not work in Russia and we should accept it. The modern concept of an ever increasing gender ideology is a byproduct of Western neoliberalism. And it is bold to assume that Western thoughts have no flaws, they do. I mean why do people need to celebrate something as private as sexuality? Why do you need to fly flags to show your sexuality? It is something that has been assigned to us at birth. We have no played no role in acquiring it, then why do people feel the need to depict them so openly? What is the purpose of a pride parade, apart from just celebrating sexuality? Most of these questions have no answer. But nevertheless these are part of modern Western values.

Similarly Russian values also have a lot of problematic areas which have no proper answers. But they are core parts of what defines the modern Russian society and we must respect them. It is unbecoming on our part to expect Russians to adopt our stupid values while foregoing their own indigenous values. Are these values oppressive? Yes they are. But so are Western values. It is oppressive to shame people for wanting a normal family unit with a working father and a homemaker mother looking after the children. Therefore my point was not to argue about which value is better, my point was that we should respect Russian courts for upholding Russian values, that's it.

Or we could respect no one who upholds oppressive values, whether western or Eastern.

[Talibanada]

But they could still access the foreign websites and copy the logos and slogans. To me that counts as supporting a foreign organized movement.

If pushing for lgbtq+ rights constitutes an organized movement, it is hard to call that a travesty.

I am fine if the movement is completely homegrown. But the moment it starts borrowing foreign symbols and phraseology (e.g. the rainbow flag; the letters L, G, B, T in that specific order) it is no longer a grassroots initiative but a foreign-sponsored one.

[Second Dimetrodon Empire]

If pushing for lgbtq+ rights constitutes an organized movement, it is hard to call that a travesty.

I am fine if the movement is completely homegrown. But the moment it starts borrowing foreign symbols and phraseology (e.g. the rainbow flag; the letters L, G, B, T in that specific order) it is no longer a grassroots initiative but a foreign-sponsored one.

Or it could be an international movement that consists of an international group with similar interests.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

If pushing for lgbtq+ rights constitutes an organized movement, it is hard to call that a travesty.

I am fine if the movement is completely homegrown. But the moment it starts borrowing foreign symbols and phraseology (e.g. the rainbow flag; the letters L, G, B, T in that specific order) it is no longer a grassroots initiative but a foreign-sponsored one.

Are you from Afghanistan?

[Normastan]

If pushing for lgbtq+ rights constitutes an organized movement, it is hard to call that a travesty.

I am fine if the movement is completely homegrown. But the moment it starts borrowing foreign symbols and phraseology (e.g. the rainbow flag; the letters L, G, B, T in that specific order) it is no longer a grassroots initiative but a foreign-sponsored one.

Sponsored by who? The rainbow flag wasn't made by an organised group, but by one person, who was asked to design a flag by- ironically, given your post- a grassroots LGBT leader. You think he is actively sponsoring the Russian LGBT movement?

Only Russia has such strict guidelines on foreign sponsorship. Just because something was made in another country doesn't mean it's actively influencing policy in whichever country it's being used in.

[Cessarea]

>Calls someone gay in a different thread
>Bro it's not an insult bro I'm joking bro
>Comes in here
>Anti-LGBT stance

Wow dude I'm so surprised this is a totally novel experience no one has ever pulled this trick before

I have never tried to hide who I am. Yes I am opposed to the LGBTQ movement in the Western countries, I have always opposed it and I will continue to oppose.

Hm, hm, hm. Why am I not surprised that your argument from the "live and let live" perspective was fuelled by other reasons after all? As for the rest of your post, you've done nothing to address criticism, you've restated previously made points in longer sentences. I, again, reserve the right to call out practices that objectively worsen the lives of people who, as you yourself said, were just naturally assigned a characteristic. I would not call allowing people to congregate and organise safe spaces for LGBT people, wherein they can claim for cultural reform for their own protection and advancement as a group, a "stupid value". This was pointed out to you already, repeatedly, and instead of addressing it you've simply reframed your comment. If it was in an attempt to make it more palatable or clearer, you've failed on both accounts.

[Crazy girl]

Well here is one thing, Gas them all, kill them is the best solution

*** Warned for trolling ***

[Talibanada]

I am fine if the movement is completely homegrown. But the moment it starts borrowing foreign symbols and phraseology (e.g. the rainbow flag; the letters L, G, B, T in that specific order) it is no longer a grassroots initiative but a foreign-sponsored one.

Or it could be an international movement that consists of an international group with similar interests.

Distinction without difference. Both constitute a threat to national unity and harmony.

I am fine if the movement is completely homegrown. But the moment it starts borrowing foreign symbols and phraseology (e.g. the rainbow flag; the letters L, G, B, T in that specific order) it is no longer a grassroots initiative but a foreign-sponsored one.

Sponsored by who? The rainbow flag wasn't made by an organised group, but by one person, who was asked to design a flag by- ironically, given your post- a grassroots LGBT leader. You think he is actively sponsoring the Russian LGBT movement?

Only Russia has such strict guidelines on foreign sponsorship. Just because something was made in another country doesn't mean it's actively influencing policy in whichever country it's being used in.

But it's still unpatriotic. [INSERT NATION] should be governed by [INSERT NATIONALITY] values alone.

[Normastan]

Sponsored by who? The rainbow flag wasn't made by an organised group, but by one person, who was asked to design a flag by- ironically, given your post- a grassroots LGBT leader. You think he is actively sponsoring the Russian LGBT movement?

Only Russia has such strict guidelines on foreign sponsorship. Just because something was made in another country doesn't mean it's actively influencing policy in whichever country it's being used in.

But it's still unpatriotic. [INSERT NATION] should be governed by [INSERT NATIONALITY] values alone.

Even if those values aren't shared by some [INSERT NATIONALITY] people living in [INSERT NATION]?

[Cessarea]

But it's still unpatriotic. [INSERT NATION] should be governed by [INSERT NATIONALITY] values alone.

Japan should be governed by Canadian values alone?

I like this version of mad libs, let's keep going!

[Necroghastia]

Or it could be an international movement that consists of an international group with similar interests.

Distinction without difference. Both constitute a threat to national unity and harmony.

How? Surely the suppressing of free speech and association, as well as criminalizing acts which harm none, threaten unity and harmony as well?

Sponsored by who? The rainbow flag wasn't made by an organised group, but by one person, who was asked to design a flag by- ironically, given your post- a grassroots LGBT leader. You think he is actively sponsoring the Russian LGBT movement?

Only Russia has such strict guidelines on foreign sponsorship. Just because something was made in another country doesn't mean it's actively influencing policy in whichever country it's being used in.

But it's still unpatriotic. [INSERT NATION] should be governed by [INSERT NATIONALITY] values alone.

Haven't you previously said everywhere should abide by Sharia?

[Untecna]

Are we really theorizing that the LGBTQ+ movement is a NATO psyop

sigh put it on the bingo board

[Talibanada]

Distinction without difference. Both constitute a threat to national unity and harmony.

How? Surely the suppressing of free speech and association, as well as criminalizing acts which harm none, threaten unity and harmony as well?

I have said this in the world peace thread as well but: Total peace cannot exist without uniformity.

But it's still unpatriotic. [INSERT NATION] should be governed by [INSERT NATIONALITY] values alone.

Haven't you previously said everywhere should abide by Sharia?

Sharia makes no provisions for e.g. how to spend government budgets; how to organize public services. Countries would retain their national governments but be accountable to an international sharia court. Essentially the EU model expanded globally and with a religious mandate. And more autocracy because the international laws would require it.

Are we really theorizing that the LGBTQ+ movement is a NATO psyop

sigh put it on the bingo board

Worse than that; it's all activist organizations.

[Necroghastia]

How? Surely the suppressing of free speech and association, as well as criminalizing acts which harm none, threaten unity and harmony as well?

I have said this in the world peace thread as well but: Total peace cannot exist without uniformity.

Balderdash. That's not peace, that's stagnation.

Haven't you previously said everywhere should abide by Sharia?

Sharia makes no provisions for e.g. how to spend government budgets; how to organize public services. Countries would retain their national governments but be accountable to an international sharia court. Essentially the EU model expanded globally and with a religious mandate. And more autocracy because the international laws would require it.

So? That would still be imposing a values system. So do you believe countries should be governed by their values alone or not?

Are we really theorizing that the LGBTQ+ movement is a NATO psyop

sigh put it on the bingo board

Worse than that; it's all activist organizations.

What's bad about that? Particularly what's worse about that than a "NATO psyop?"

[Talibanada]

Sharia makes no provisions for e.g. how to spend government budgets; how to organize public services. Countries would retain their national governments but be accountable to an international sharia court. Essentially the EU model expanded globally and with a religious mandate. And more autocracy because the international laws would require it.

So? That would still be imposing a values system. So do you believe countries should be governed by their values alone or not?

Yes. As long as those values are in line with sharia law. To paraphrase Henry Ford "you can have any belief as long as it's Islam."

Worse than that; it's all activist organizations.

What's bad about that? Particularly what's worse about that than a "NATO psyop?"

It's worse in that it's not just L.G.B.T. organizations but all organized movements across the spectrum. I.e. I am not opposed to those orgs by virtue of their agenda, but by virtue of their foreign provenance.