Late 2023 Israel-Hamas Conflict, Thread 2 of ?

[Elwher]

So, since Israel has been killing Palestinians for so long and there are still Palestinians, obviously it isn't genocide?

No, the crime of genocide doesn't require the attempts to destroy a people to be successful.

But being an existential threat does?

[Ifreann]

No, the crime of genocide doesn't require the attempts to destroy a people to be successful.

But being an existential threat does?

Being an existential threat is being a threat to something's existence. Threat. Existence. Existential threat. See how that works?

[Haganham]

So, since Israel has been killing Palestinians for so long and there are still Palestinians, obviously it isn't genocide?

No, the crime of genocide doesn't require the attempts to destroy a people to be successful.

It does however, require the intent.

[Elwher]

But being an existential threat does?

Being an existential threat is being a threat to something's existence. Threat. Existence. Existential threat. See how that works?

The fact that one has not yet succeeded does not mean one is not a threat. Nuclear war is an existential threat to the human race and has been for decades, despite the fact that we are still here.

[Ifreann]

Being an existential threat is being a threat to something's existence. Threat. Existence. Existential threat. See how that works?

The fact that one has not yet succeeded does not mean one is not a threat. Nuclear war is an existential threat to the human race and has been for decades, despite the fact that we are still here.

If nuclear war had been ongoing for twenty years people and barely made a ripple in people's lives then we would probably conclude that it wasn't much of a threat at all.

[Deblar]

No, the crime of genocide doesn't require the attempts to destroy a people to be successful.

It does however, require the intent.

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems very hard to…*checks notes* oh yeah, collectively punish the Gaza by cutting off vital supplies of food and water, flatten more than half of the entire Strip with an indiscriminate bombing campaign, and kill Palestinians try to receive aid, among other things, on accident

[Fahran]

Where are you reading hesitancy to support Ukraine from?

Petro stating that he’d rather scrap weapons or equipment than send them to Ukraine. Mind you, I understand why Latin America’s responses have been as tepid as they are, and the article explores that a little bit.

[Roman Khilafa Al Cordoba]

the civilians are hamas
the buildings are hamas

Are you trying to suggest that every person in Gaza is part of Hamas?

My friend, its sarcasm

[Durius]

Where are you reading hesitancy to support Ukraine from?

Petro stating that he’d rather scrap weapons or equipment than send them to Ukraine. Mind you, I understand why Latin America’s responses have been as tepid as they are, and the article explores that a little bit.

Colombia has condemned Russian attacks on civilians and provided help to Ukraine. It didn't send weapons. Colombia has condemned Israel attacks on civilians. It did not send weapons to Hamas or Palestine. Again, where is the double-standard?

[Port Carverton]

Petro stating that he’d rather scrap weapons or equipment than send them to Ukraine. Mind you, I understand why Latin America’s responses have been as tepid as they are, and the article explores that a little bit.

Colombia has condemned Russian attacks on civilians and provided help to Ukraine. It didn't send weapons. Colombia has condemned Israel attacks on civilians. It did not send weapons to Hamas or Palestine. Again, where is the double-standard?

That was under the previous administration. Petro was officially neutral in the issue fir a very long time

[Big Eyed Animation]

I think Gustavo did say something against Russia but I think only after three Colombian citizens were hurt from a Russian airstrike.

[Fahran]

I think Gustavo did say something against Russia but I think only after three Colombian citizens were hurt from a Russian airstrike.

Indeed. His stance only really began to change about halfway through 2023. Colombia officially protested the killing of three Colombian civilians in Ukraine and, more recently, Colombian military personnel have volunteered to fight for the Ukrainians - albeit this occurred without official government sanction. Petro's earlier stance was far more akin to neutrality, and largely mirrored that of Lula and other Latin American leaders, an oddity given Colombia is generally seen as a close American ally.

But we're off-topic. My main point here was that geopolitics isn't really as simple or straightforward as we're making out to be here on NSG.

[Big Eyed Animation]

I think Gustavo did say something against Russia but I think only after three Colombian citizens were hurt from a Russian airstrike.

Indeed. His stance only really began to change about halfway through 2023. Colombia officially protested the killing of three Colombian civilians in Ukraine and, more recently, Colombian military personnel have volunteered to fight for the Ukrainians - albeit this occurred without official government sanction. Petro's earlier stance was far more akin to neutrality, and largely mirrored that of Lula and other Latin American leaders, an oddity given Colombia is generally seen as a close American ally.

But we're off-topic. My main point here was that geopolitics isn't really as simple or straightforward as we're making out to be here on NSG.

At the end of the day we are all arm chair politicians. We can only have opinions based on what's already declassified.

That's why my point is tinged with history and pragmatism without all of the decades of hate between the two sides. Otherwise we'd forever be in the circle of violence, manipulated by foreign powers with their own agendas.

Remember my link where the Iranians own news outlets said the IRGC claimed Oct 7 was revenge for Soleimani.

[Sarduri]

I don't think you're being particularly blunt. That said, there's a categorical difference between Israeli police, or any other police, arresting people over politically-charged tweets and the government of El Salvador declaring a state of exception in response to unmanageable levels of violence that have crippled society and arresting the people they can be reasonably confident are responsible for all the rape, kidnapping, and murder.

degree, not category.

And who precisely am I being chauvinistic against here? It's not Latinos. It's not the working class. It's not men. It's arguably a coterie of murderers and rapists who decide to tattoo their allegiances prominently on their bodies, and, even then, I wouldn't describe supporting the desire of Salvadorans to live with some degree of safety chauvinism. If anything, efforts to impose a toothless liberalism that has not adequately addressed the country's problems across three or four decades because it appeals to Americans and Europeans strikes me as more chauvinistic than anything.

it's all of them really. combined with a perplexing bit of naivety in believing that the guy who wants to build a Bitcoin city of the future in an active volcano and who was credibly accused by a El Salvadoran newspaper of cutting deals with major cartels to reduce murder rates in exchange for political support is some sort of honest broker here.

like again, not to put too fine a point on it but

But we're off-topic. My main point here was that geopolitics isn't really as simple or straightforward as we're making out to be here on NSG.

this holding-chess-piece-and-contemplating-it-while-silhouetted-against-a-big-map realpolitiking tone kind of gets undermined when you look at this guy and go 'yep he's definitely actually cracking down and not just the incarnation of gangsterism percolating to the top of politics and performing his own shakedown of the gangs for kickbacks and his own aggrandizement, nothing to see here'

[Oceasia]

ICJ indicates additional provisional measures following South Africa’s request of 6 March 2024 in the case South Africa v. Israel

I've seen people saying this is worse for Israel than it initially looks despite no orders for a ceasefire yet.

[Washington Resistance Army]

ICJ indicates additional provisional measures following South Africa’s request of 6 March 2024 in the case South Africa v. Israel

I've seen people saying this is worse for Israel than it initially looks despite no orders for a ceasefire yet.

Israel will ignore it no matter what, but a good sign nonetheless. Stuff like this makes it harder and harder for the west to back them.

[Durius]

But being an existential threat does?

Being an existential threat is being a threat to something's existence. Threat. Existence. Existential threat. See how that works?

A threat that persists for decades and would certainly try to undo your existence in a moment of weakness does seem quite existencial.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Being an existential threat is being a threat to something's existence. Threat. Existence. Existential threat. See how that works?

A threat that persists for decades and would certainly try to undo your existence in a moment of weakness does seem quite existencial.

I am once again reminding this thread that Israel is a rogue nuclear armed state. The amount of nations or groups that can genuinely be an "existential threat" to them can be counted on a single hand, and Hamas or Palestine are not in that list.

[Durius]

A threat that persists for decades and would certainly try to undo your existence in a moment of weakness does seem quite existencial.

I am once again reminding this thread that Israel is a rogue nuclear armed state. The amount of nations or groups that can genuinely be an "existential threat" to them can be counted on a single hand, and Hamas or Palestine are not in that list.

Rogue nuclear armed states is not synonymous with stable existence.

[Turenia]

A threat that persists for decades and would certainly try to undo your existence in a moment of weakness does seem quite existencial.

I am once again reminding this thread that Israel is a rogue nuclear armed state. The amount of nations or groups that can genuinely be an "existential threat" to them can be counted on a single hand, and Hamas or Palestine are not in that list.

Israel is a rogue state? That is a foolish statement. What kind of foolishness is that?

Israel is threatened by Iran, by Syria and by it's proxies; Hamas and Hezbollah. This is like calling Ukraine a "rogue state" for resisting the Russian invasion.

[Turenia]

Troops raiding Gaza’s Shifa hospital kill senior Hamas commander, says IDF

Hamas commander hiding in a hospital? What a huge surprise that is.

[Fame And Even More Fame]

Troops raiding Gaza’s Shifa hospital kill senior Hamas commander, says IDF

Hamas commander hiding in a hospital? What a huge surprise that is.

“Says IDF”
The most trustworthy news source indeed

[DataDyneIrkenAlliance]

To my fellow Zionists,

Always remember actions speak louder than words and that sly old codger Biden never turns his back on a valued ally. Patience is a virtue so please trust the USA on this one.

And don't underestimate a proven politician over what idiots yell about his age, the man is an absolute genius who truly has good and far reaching intentions. The subtle moves today will only be revealed as masterful to the public in some years.

Riden with Biden

[Ifreann]

Troops raiding Gaza’s Shifa hospital kill senior Hamas commander, says IDF

Hamas commander hiding in a hospital? What a huge surprise that is.

The Israel Defense Forces said Hamas commander Raad Thabet was killed by soldiers from the Navy’s Shayetet 13 commando unit as he attempted to flee with two other operatives into the hospital compound.

By this account, he wasn't hiding in the hospital. To be attempting to flee into the hospital compound he must have been outside the hospital compound.

[Turenia]

Troops raiding Gaza’s Shifa hospital kill senior Hamas commander, says IDF

Hamas commander hiding in a hospital? What a huge surprise that is.

The Israel Defense Forces said Hamas commander Raad Thabet was killed by soldiers from the Navy’s Shayetet 13 commando unit as he attempted to flee with two other operatives into the hospital compound.

By this account, he wasn't hiding in the hospital. To be attempting to flee into the hospital compound he must have been outside the hospital compound.

So he fled into a hospital...

...where he then hid.