Late 2023 Israel-Hamas Conflict, Thread 2 of ?

[Turenia]

Gee, I don't know, its decades-long failed attempts of rectifying the cartel and gang crisis--which has, by the way, led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands?

Is this really the best you come up with? Discrediting Colombia's position because the government hasn't been able to fix a very complex and structural problem? Maybe in your mind they should be lauded if they take a violent approach and indiscriminate approach like Israel, the Phillipines, or El Salvador. Those are the good governments who imprision and kill innocent civilians just to just out one problem!

Say whatever you will about El Salvador, Bukele has made it a safe place.

[Port Carverton]

That's debatable, seeing he said that Ukraine was none of Latin America's concerns

Not saying this didn’t happen, cuz Brazil’s president is also a leftist and said something similar, but can I have a source for this? Cuz all I found was that he condemned Russia’s invasion but said supporting Ukraine but not Palestine is hypocritical & the same logic should be applied to Palestine as it is to Ukraine.

It isn't exactly what I posted, but here he says he is a 'fajardist' (Fajardo was a centrist candidate in the 2022 elections) in relations to the Ukraine-Russia war, in other words saying he is neutral on the issue. It's pretty clear that any claims of anti-imperialism on his part are a sham

https://www.eltiempo.com/elecciones-202 ... ski-656830

[Khardsland]

Say whatever you will about El Salvador, Bukele has made it a safe place.

Making a country safe by terrorizing anyone who made the fatal flaw of getting a tattoo...right

[Sarduri]

Fun and timely update on that whole Colombia arms deal, courtesy of Haaretz:

In August 2022, the head of the Defense Ministry's export assistance department announced his intention to retire the following year, at the end of his four-year term in office.

This seemed straightforward enough, but the official, Yair Kulas, had been warned that he would be fired if he did not step down amid several cases of alleged misconduct, sources told Haaretz's business newspaper, TheMarker. But when Benjamin Netanyahu's latest government took over at the end of 2022, Kulas was rescued from retirement. Throughout Kulas' term, alarm bells went off at the Defense Ministry. This included a deal that seemed peculiar to Amir Eshel, the ministry's director general at the time, and a former head of the air force.

In that transaction, the Colombian government asked that its payment to Israeli company NSO Group be in cash – a cool $13 million. And the haul would be flown to Israel by private jet. Separately, there were also claims that Kulas had violated a conflict-of-interest agreement. But a year and a half after announcing his retirement, Kulas is still in his job. Last week, the Defense Ministry said: "The ministry deplores the attempt to tarnish the good name of Brig. Gen. (ret) Yair Kulas, who has been serving Israel for four decades, and gives him its full support."

The full name of the agency that Kulas heads is the International Defense Cooperation Directorate, known by its Hebrew acronym, Sibat. It helps Israeli producers of weapons, combat and military gear, and cybertechnology seal deals with governments around the world. Such arms sales not only boost Israeli exports, they reduce the cost of products to be bought by the Israeli military.

Kulas was appointed Sibat chief in 2019 by Eshel's predecessor, Udi Adam. Kulas was about to conclude a term of huge growth in Israeli defense exports – a record $12.5 billion in 2022 – alongside even greater growth in so-called government-to-government deals, as opposed to contracts between a company and a government.

During Kulas' tenure, the percentage of government-to-government deals leaped from around 10 percent to nearly a third. Sibat charges a commission of up to 2 percent on these so-called G2G deals. The numbers seemed to indicate success, but in August 2022, just before an announcement was expected on whether to extend Kulas' term, the Defense Ministry announced that Kulas had "informed the Defense Ministry's director general of his wish to end his term in 2023, after four years in office."

In the weeks before the announcement, Eshel ordered the Defense Ministry's legal team to prepare for a possible hearing in the run-up to the possible dismissal of the Sibat chief. Before summoning Kulas to a meeting, Eshel conferred with the head of the Civil Service Commission about his intentions. Eshel met with Kulas, followed by the Defense Ministry's announcement. There would be no hearing.

The Colombia case seems to be the most glaring irregularity. According to several people involved, in 2020, NSO negotiated with a Colombian government authority to sell its infamous Pegasus spyware.

...

Regarding the Colombians' suggestion to fly $13 million to Israel, there remained only one problem: How to get a bank to accept such a large cash deposit?

Normally, a $10,000 cash deposit could trigger money-laundering alarms. But $13 million in cash from the world's narcotics capital is the mother of all alarms. It's simply not possible – unless the Defense Ministry provides a stamp of approval. NSO first approached Sibat about the matter in late 2020. Kulas and other officials provided a checklist of tasks the company had to commit to if it wanted government assistance. In mid-2021, to the surprise of some officials involved, NSO announced that it had fulfilled the instructions. Kulas and his employees were now available to promote the deal.

NSO received a letter from the Defense Ministry stating that the transaction was legal and had been approved by the Israeli government, despite its unusual terms. According to several sources close to the situation, the bank, one of Israel's largest, was impressed by the approval and agreed to accept the cash from Colombia.

Kulas, however, failed to do one thing: brief his boss. "Eshel heard about the letter and went ballistic," one source said. "He couldn't understand how anybody could go along with such an adventure without keeping the director general informed."

Still, the Defense Ministry says that Eshel eventually gave his blessing. Two sources involved in the deal told TheMarker that the transaction went through.

No one TheMarker spoke with for this article, whether sympathetic to or critical of Kulas, said the state had any special interest in the deal. So why approve the cash payment?

"I don't believe it's corruption," said one source who is critical of Kulas. "I know of no indication of corruption. True, it sounds terrible to go ahead with a cash deal without informing the top of the ministry, but it may be just overeagerness to help [Israel's] defense industries. On the other hand, at the end of the day, this is unacceptable behavior in the civil service.

These deals were all notably done under the previous presidential administration of Ivan Duque, whose government was notable for its coziness with foreign mining concerns, corruption charges and notably for this conversation, allegedly conspiring with drug cartels to commit fraud in the presidential elections.

One imagines the utility of these deals for the Colombian state is probably a lot less than advertised.

[Fahran]

It isn't exactly what I posted, but here he says he is a 'fajardist' (Fajardo was a centrist candidate in the 2022 elections) in relations to the Ukraine-Russia war, in other words saying he is neutral on the issue. It's pretty clear that any claims of anti-imperialism on his part are a sham

https://www.eltiempo.com/elecciones-202 ... ski-656830

He's given a number of excuses for his lack of commentary on Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and, generally, these have been equivocations or red herrings about how the Americans and Europeans are imperialists - the same sort of remarks tankies usually make when asked to provide a condemnation of Russian aggression. These occurred well before October 7th and the subsequent escalation in violence. Mind you, the situation has changed somewhat - in part because Colombian soldiers have volunteered to fight in Ukraine and in part because the Russians killed three Colombian civilians, provoking a diplomatic protest from Colombia. That said, Putin viewed Petro as a potential ally early on and there's a reason for that.

[Fahran]

Making a country safe by terrorizing anyone who made the fatal flaw of getting a tattoo...right

A gang tattoo indicating affiliation with a notorious group of murderers and rapists.

Oh, no! Won't somebody please think of the due process rights of the most depraved criminals imaginable who have been crippling Salvadoran society for decades!?

[SusScorfa]

It isn't exactly what I posted, but here he says he is a 'fajardist' (Fajardo was a centrist candidate in the 2022 elections) in relations to the Ukraine-Russia war, in other words saying he is neutral on the issue. It's pretty clear that any claims of anti-imperialism on his part are a sham

https://www.eltiempo.com/elecciones-202 ... ski-656830

He's given a number of excuses for his lack of commentary on Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and, generally, these have been equivocations or red herrings about how the Americans and Europeans are imperialists - the same sort of remarks tankies usually make when asked to provide a condemnation of Russian aggression. These occurred well before October 7th and the subsequent escalation in violence. Mind you, the situation has changed somewhat - in part because Colombian soldiers have volunteered to fight in Ukraine and in part because the Russians killed three Colombian civilians, provoking a diplomatic protest from Colombia. That said, Putin viewed Petro as a potential ally early on and there's a reason for that.

I wonder what kind of conclusions we should draw, given the lack of commentary on the ongoing genocide in Gaza from some people in this thread and their sudden keenness on commenting on the character of the Columbian president.

[Roman Khilafa Al Cordoba]

Military officers count as prisoners of war. As for the civilian 'hostages' that you love to talk about - they are just the victims of colonial aggression.

They’re the victims of violent Islamism and anti-semitism.

And no, not “ ‘hostages’ “ in quotation marks. They are hostages. You viewing them as deserving of death for being Jewish doesn’t change that.

I like you you play the Anti Semite card yet refuse to elaborate on how you are dismissing Palestinian casualties and families torn apart, yet you scream about 1330 dead Israelis.
Do explain.

[Sarduri]

Making a country safe by terrorizing anyone who made the fatal flaw of getting a tattoo...right

A gang tattoo indicating affiliation with a notorious group of murderers and rapists.

Oh, no! Won't somebody please think of the due process rights of the most depraved criminals imaginable who have been crippling Salvadoran society for decades!?

not to be too blunt here but there's an extremely strong parallel between this attitude and similar attitudes in the Israeli security services that leads to Palestinian teenages getting swept off the street and detained indefinitely for nebulous charges and with no due process.

that bubbling crisis, of course, was one of the big contributors to the mess we're currently in. so perhaps reconsider the chauvinistic smugness.

[Sarduri]

He's given a number of excuses for his lack of commentary on Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and, generally, these have been equivocations or red herrings about how the Americans and Europeans are imperialists - the same sort of remarks tankies usually make when asked to provide a condemnation of Russian aggression. These occurred well before October 7th and the subsequent escalation in violence. Mind you, the situation has changed somewhat - in part because Colombian soldiers have volunteered to fight in Ukraine and in part because the Russians killed three Colombian civilians, provoking a diplomatic protest from Colombia. That said, Putin viewed Petro as a potential ally early on and there's a reason for that.

to rehash a discourse from October of last year, of course this narrative gets complicated when Latin American commentators or governments point out the potential problems inherent to being asked by the West to condemn Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine and its indiscriminate attacks on civilians, but then when Oct rolled around get asked to stick to the 'Israel has the right to defend itself' script while illegally occupying part and indiscriminately attacking another part of a place they diplomatically recognize as a full, sovereign country.

sovereignty and international law for me but not for thee, etc.

[USHALLNOTPASS]

Making a country safe by terrorizing anyone who made the fatal flaw of getting a tattoo...right

A gang tattoo indicating affiliation with a notorious group of murderers and rapists.

Oh, no! Won't somebody please think of the due process rights of the most depraved criminals imaginable who have been crippling Salvadoran society for decades!?

Of course you have to think about due process rights for them, because these present attitudes of the state can easily be turned against anybody in society. Do you genuinely believe that because you have nothing to hide, had committed no crimes, that you have nothing to fear?

To add to Sarduri’s point, the atmosphere of the Israeli permanent state of exception against the Palestinians can easily be turned on the Israelis themselves. The funny boomerang will strike again.

[DataDyneIrkenAlliance]

Collateral damage is not genocide.

Hamas posed an existential threat not just to the state of Israel but to the citizens of Israel as well as evidenced by the unceasing rocket barrage fired from Gaza and Lebanon for the past 20 years.

After the massacre of more unarmed civilians on Oct 7th by a Palestinian Hamas incursion, which saw the murder, mutilations and rape of numerous Israelis and people touring Israel, the state of Israel had to act decisively to bring order and stability to the situation before violence spread to more Israeli population centers.

Destroying Hamas is the current objective of Israel.

Hamas embeds itself not just in Gazan populations but also abroad. Israel has determined violence is necessary to end the threat posed by Hamas once and for all.

Violence is messy and gets messier the closer to civilian populations it occurs in. Hamas chose to build a tunnel network in Gaza as well as make their own people human shields. Israel has always faced an uphill battle.

It's a battle that will be won. That's inevitable.

The question is how many Palestinian non-combatants need to pay with their lives to satisfy the Iranian backed Hamas before finally releasing hostages still held to this day.

For people who love their families more than they love their own egotistic delusions of martyrdom, forgotten not just by the world but by Arabs themselves within half a decade if that, the question is an easy answer; release the hostages and silence Israeli guns.

For Hamas the answer is to ensure Palestinians suffer in the hopes of strengthening the position of Iran on the world stage. The Arab elite have no love for Palestinian people, only love of a decadent spectacle they can take advantage of.

Israel only loves it's own people and continues to fight for the right to exist. Some Palestinians are aware of this and find that cooperation with Israel entitles them to a similar defense of their own existence.

Time will tell if enough wake up in time for there to be a Palestine for Palestinians, not Iran, by the end of this.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

If Hamas puts down their weapons today, there will still be Palestinians at the mercy of a right-wing government backed by nuclear weapons. If Israel puts down their weapons today, there will still be Israelis held hostage and at the mercy of a genocidal terrorist group backed by a wannabe nuclear power.

[Insaanistan]

Collateral damage is not genocide.

Hamas posed an existential threat not just to the state of Israel but to the citizens of Israel as well as evidenced by the unceasing rocket barrage fired from Gaza and Lebanon for the past 20 years.

After the massacre of more unarmed civilians on Oct 7th by a Palestinian Hamas incursion, which saw the murder, mutilations and rape of numerous Israelis and people touring Israel, the state of Israel had to act decisively to bring order and stability to the situation before violence spread to more Israeli population centers.

Destroying Hamas is the current objective of Israel.

Hamas embeds itself not just in Gazan populations but also abroad. Israel has determined violence is necessary to end the threat posed by Hamas once and for all.

Violence is messy and gets messier the closer to civilian populations it occurs in. Hamas chose to build a tunnel network in Gaza as well as make their own people human shields. Israel has always faced an uphill battle.

It's a battle that will be won. That's inevitable.

The question is how many Palestinian non-combatants need to pay with their lives to satisfy the Iranian backed Hamas before finally releasing hostages still held to this day.

For people who love their families more than they love their own egotistic delusions of martyrdom, forgotten not just by the world but by Arabs themselves within half a decade if that, the question is an easy answer; release the hostages and silence Israeli guns.

For Hamas the answer is to ensure Palestinians suffer in the hopes of strengthening the position of Iran on the world stage. The Arab elite have no love for Palestinian people, only love of a decadent spectacle they can take advantage of.

Israel only loves it's own people and continues to fight for the right to exist. Some Palestinians are aware of this and find that cooperation with Israel entitles them to a similar defense of their own existence.

Time will tell if enough wake up in time for there to be a Palestine for Palestinians, not Iran, by the end of this.

There’s so much wrong with this one post and that’s honestly impressive.

[Bovad]

Collateral damage is not genocide.

Hamas posed an existential threat not just to the state of Israel but to the citizens of Israel as well as evidenced by the unceasing rocket barrage fired from Gaza and Lebanon for the past 20 years.

After the massacre of more unarmed civilians on Oct 7th by a Palestinian Hamas incursion, which saw the murder, mutilations and rape of numerous Israelis and people touring Israel, the state of Israel had to act decisively to bring order and stability to the situation before violence spread to more Israeli population centers.

Destroying Hamas is the current objective of Israel.

Hamas embeds itself not just in Gazan populations but also abroad. Israel has determined violence is necessary to end the threat posed by Hamas once and for all.

Violence is messy and gets messier the closer to civilian populations it occurs in. Hamas chose to build a tunnel network in Gaza as well as make their own people human shields. Israel has always faced an uphill battle.

It's a battle that will be won. That's inevitable.

The question is how many Palestinian non-combatants need to pay with their lives to satisfy the Iranian backed Hamas before finally releasing hostages still held to this day.

For people who love their families more than they love their own egotistic delusions of martyrdom, forgotten not just by the world but by Arabs themselves within half a decade if that, the question is an easy answer; release the hostages and silence Israeli guns.

For Hamas the answer is to ensure Palestinians suffer in the hopes of strengthening the position of Iran on the world stage. The Arab elite have no love for Palestinian people, only love of a decadent spectacle they can take advantage of.

Israel only loves it's own people and continues to fight for the right to exist. Some Palestinians are aware of this and find that cooperation with Israel entitles them to a similar defense of their own existence.

Time will tell if enough wake up in time for there to be a Palestine for Palestinians, not Iran, by the end of this.

Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!

[Sarduri]

Hamas posed an existential threat not just to the state of Israel but to the citizens of Israel as well as evidenced by the unceasing rocket barrage fired from Gaza and Lebanon for the past 20 years.

from 2004 to 2014 rocket attacks launched by Hamas have killed about 30 Israelis total

as for Lebanon, you've got the wrong department

[USHALLNOTPASS]

snip

Who let the Cold War warrior cook again?

[DataDyneIrkenAlliance]

Israel has a right to exist and defend itself.

That's all there is to it as far as anyone not personally affected should be concerned.

Palestine has to be made strong and wise enough to resist Islamic Jihad and Arab Elite machinations. Casting blame on Israel for the weakness and foolishness of Palestinian leadership obfuscates the real problem and in turn the path to a real lasting solution.

Western idealists would see Palestinians throw themselves off cliffs onto jagged rocks before conceding the fact that Palestinians themselves have what they need to form a lasting peace yet choose not to. It's a twisted form of new racism and Islamophobia where Palestinians are put on a pedestal as perfect angels when they themselves would spit with contempt at the thought.

We are all humans with equal parts virtues and flaws. It's the same with Israelis and Jews.

Turning down the idealistic nonsense and focusing on the basics of what's held, what's not, what's negotiable and what's off the table is the way forward.

Useful idiots can content themselves with meaningless blame games and persist in their quagmire until the end of time.

Israel, the USA and Palestine have other plans however.

[Stellar Colonies]

Student sit-in at Vanderbilt over Israel-divestment vote ends Wednesday, students arrested (Tennessean)

Protests by students on Vanderbilt University’s campus lasted into early Wednesday morning, after a sit-in at an administration building that began Tuesday resulted in the arrest of at least three of students and the removal of many more.

Vanderbilt University students began protesting Tuesday after an amendment to the Vanderbilt Student Government Constitution, which would prevent student government funds from going to certain businesses that support Israel, was removed by administration officials from a student ballot in late March.

More than two dozen students entered the halls of Vanderbilt Chancellor Daniel Diermeier’s office to hold a sit-in around 9 a.m. Tuesday, along with over 30 more students who sat on the steps outside.

Three students who sat in the Chancellor's office were arrested for assault and bodily injury to another, according to The Hustler, Vanderbilt's student news organization, though online jail records do not currently list any charges.

All three students have been released.

Sam Schulman, a sophomore at Vanderbilt University and member of the protesting group, told The Tennessean that while inside, students were denied access to the building’s restrooms, forcing them to urinate in water bottles.

Also according to Schulman, all protestors inside the building have been sent an interim suspension letter by the university, which bars them from reentering the campus pending an investigation.

University officials have not yet responded to a request for comment Wednesday regarding the arrests or suspensions.

In a statement on Tuesday, the university stated that Student Affairs attempted to “deescalate the situation” after the student’s had “breached” the building, pushing a staff member out of the doorway.

The university released on its YouTube page video of the students pushing their way into the building.

“Student Affairs staff took a graduated approach to de-escalate the situation,” the statement said. “First, they asked students to leave. After the students refused to leave, staff made them aware their actions violated university policy and that they would be subject to disciplinary action. After several hours, the university began issuing interim suspensions. Students on interim suspension must leave campus immediately and may not return until further notice, pending the Student Affairs review process.”

During Tuesday’s protests, a reporter with the Nashville Scene was detained and removed from the campus while reporting on the activity. Local media were warned not to enter Kirkland Hall but in a video posted to social media, though the reporter said he wasn't warned about staying off campus.

He was later released without charges.

The incident has brought large pushback from the Nashville community, including from The Future of Free Speech project, a nonpartisan think tank located at Vanderbilt University.

"We do not condone the use of violence or trespassing as a protected form of protest and would encourage students to demonstrate peacefully in accordance with Vanderbilt’s policy,” said Jacob Mchangama, the organization's Executive Director. “However, arresting an independent local reporter covering the protest, regardless of his alleged attempts to enter a building without authorization, was a disproportionate response that failed to live up to Vanderbilt’s commitment to free expression and First Amendment ideals."

[Roman Khilafa Al Cordoba]

Collateral damage is not genocide.

Hamas posed an existential threat not just to the state of Israel but to the citizens of Israel as well as evidenced by the unceasing rocket barrage fired from Gaza and Lebanon for the past 20 years.

After the massacre of more unarmed civilians on Oct 7th by a Palestinian Hamas incursion, which saw the murder, mutilations and rape of numerous Israelis and people touring Israel, the state of Israel had to act decisively to bring order and stability to the situation before violence spread to more Israeli population centers.

Destroying Hamas is the current objective of Israel.

Hamas embeds itself not just in Gazan populations but also abroad. Israel has determined violence is necessary to end the threat posed by Hamas once and for all.

Violence is messy and gets messier the closer to civilian populations it occurs in. Hamas chose to build a tunnel network in Gaza as well as make their own people human shields. Israel has always faced an uphill battle.

It's a battle that will be won. That's inevitable.

The question is how many Palestinian non-combatants need to pay with their lives to satisfy the Iranian backed Hamas before finally releasing hostages still held to this day.

For people who love their families more than they love their own egotistic delusions of martyrdom, forgotten not just by the world but by Arabs themselves within half a decade if that, the question is an easy answer; release the hostages and silence Israeli guns.

For Hamas the answer is to ensure Palestinians suffer in the hopes of strengthening the position of Iran on the world stage. The Arab elite have no love for Palestinian people, only love of a decadent spectacle they can take advantage of.

Israel only loves it's own people and continues to fight for the right to exist. Some Palestinians are aware of this and find that cooperation with Israel entitles them to a similar defense of their own existence.

Time will tell if enough wake up in time for there to be a Palestine for Palestinians, not Iran, by the end of this.

It's not genocide, it was by accident despite the many mosques blown uup and people killed by... *checks notes* a ground invasion.

BUT HAMASSS ROCKETTS WWAAAAHH

[Roman Khilafa Al Cordoba]

Israel has a right to exist and defend itself.

That's all there is to it as far as anyone not personally affected should be concerned.

Palestine has to be made strong and wise enough to resist Islamic Jihad and Arab Elite machinations. Casting blame on Israel for the weakness and foolishness of Palestinian leadership obfuscates the real problem and in turn the path to a real lasting solution.

Western idealists would see Palestinians throw themselves off cliffs onto jagged rocks before conceding the fact that Palestinians themselves have what they need to form a lasting peace yet choose not to. It's a twisted form of new racism and Islamophobia where Palestinians are put on a pedestal as perfect angels when they themselves would spit with contempt at the thought.

We are all humans with equal parts virtues and flaws. It's the same with Israelis and Jews.

Turning down the idealistic nonsense and focusing on the basics of what's held, what's not, what's negotiable and what's off the table is the way forward.

Useful idiots can content themselves with meaningless blame games and persist in their quagmire until the end of time.

Israel, the USA and Palestine have other plans however.

Israel has a right to defend itself by blowing up civilians, but why didn't Palestine and Hamas?
What's the difference?

[Vassenor]

Is it really self defence or collateral damage when you're just drone-striking unarmed civilians walking down a bombed out street?

[Roman Khilafa Al Cordoba]

Is it really self defence or collateral damage when you're just drone-striking unarmed civilians walking down a bombed out street?

the civilians are hamas
the buildings are hamas

[Dakran]

Is it really self defence or collateral damage when you're just drone-striking unarmed civilians walking down a bombed out street?

the civilians are hamas
the buildings are hamas

Are you trying to suggest that every person in Gaza is part of Hamas?

[The Apollonian Systems]

Is this really the best you come up with? Discrediting Colombia's position because the government hasn't been able to fix a very complex and structural problem? Maybe in your mind they should be lauded if they take a violent approach and indiscriminate approach like Israel, the Phillipines, or El Salvador. Those are the good governments who imprision and kill innocent civilians just to just out one problem!

Say whatever you will about El Salvador, Bukele has made it a safe place.

In return for a dictatorship. Thing is governments are the biggest gangs.