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Monkeys are better economists than people

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Neu Leonstein
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Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Neu Leonstein » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:06 pm

I just thought I needed to share this:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/game-theory/#Neuro
In the best publicized example, Glimcher (2003) and colleagues have fMRI-scanned monkeys they had trained to play so-called ‘inspection games’ against computers. In an inspection game, one player faces a series of choices either to work for a reward, in which case he is sure to receive it, or to perform another, easier action ("shirking"), in which case he will receive the reward only if the other player (the "inspector") is not monitoring him. Assume that the first player's (the "worker's") behavior reveals a utility function bounded on each end as follows: he will work on every occasion if the inspector always monitors and he will shirk on every occasion if the inspector never monitors. The inspector prefers to obtain the highest possible amount of work for the lowest possible monitoring rate, thus deriving profits from her private information. In this game, the only Nash equilibria (NE) for both players are in mixed strategies, since any pattern in one player's strategy that can be detected by the other can be exploited. For any given pair of specific utility functions for the two players meeting the constraints described above, any pair of strategies in which, on each trial, either the worker is indifferent between working and shirking or the inspector is indifferent between monitoring and not monitoring, is a NE.

Applying inspection game analyses to pairs or groups of agents requires us to have either independently justified their utility functions over all variables relevant to their play, in which case we can define NE and then test to see whether they successfully maximize expected utility; or to assume that they maximize expected utility, or obey some other rule such as a matching function, and then infer their utility functions from their behavior. Either such procedure can be sensible in different empirical contexts. But epistemological leverage increases greatly if the utility function of the inspector is exogenously determined, as it often is. (Police implementing random roadside inspections to catch drunk drivers, for example, typically have a maximum incidence of drunk driving assigned to them as a target by policy, and an exogenously set budget. These determine their utility function, given a distibution of preferences and attitudes to risk among the population of drivers.) In the case of Glimcher's experiments the inspector is a computer, so its program is under experimental control and its side of the payoff matrix is known. Proxies for the subjects' expected utility, in this case squirts of fruit juice for the monkeys, can be antecedently determined in parametric test settings. The computer is then programmed with the economic model of the monkeys, and can search the data in their behavior in game conditions for exploitable patterns, varying its strategy accordingly. With these variables fixed, expected-utility-maximizing NE behavior by the monkeys can be calculated and tested by manipulating the computer's utility function in various runs of the game.

Monkey behavior after training tracks NE very robustly (as does the behavior of people playing similar games for monetary prizes; Glimcher 2003, pp. 307-308). Working with trained monkeys, Glimcher and colleagues could perform the experiments of significance here. Working and shirking behaviors for the monkeys had been associated by their training with staring either to the right or to the left on a visual display. In earlier experiments, Platt and Glimcher (1999) had established that, in parametric settings, as juice rewards varied from one block of trials to another, firing rates of each parietal neuron that controls eye movements could be trained to encode the expected utility to the monkey of each possible movement relative to the expected utility of the alternative movement. Thus "movements that were worth 0.4 ml of juice were represented twice as strongly [in neural firing probabilities] as movements worth 0.2 ml of juice" (p. 314). Unsurprisingly, when amounts of juice rewarded for each movement were varied from one block of trials to another, firing rates also varied.

Against this background, Glimcher and colleagues could investigate the way in which monkeys' brains implemented the tracking of NE. When the monkeys played the inspection game against the computer, the target associated with shirking could be set at the optimal location, given the prior training, for a specific neuron under study, while the work target would appear at a null location. This permitted Glimcher to test the answer to the following question: did the monkeys maintain NE in the game by keeping the firing rate of the neuron constant while the actual and optimal behavior of the monkey as a whole varied? The data robustly gave the answer ‘yes’. Glimcher reasonably interprets these data as suggesting that neural firing rates, at least in this cortical region for this task, encode expected utility in both parametric and nonparametric settings. Here is a vindication of the empirical applicability of classical game theory in a context independent of institutions or social conventions.


http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/game-theory/#Human
Henrich et al. (2004, 2005) have run a series of experimental games with populations drawn from fifteen small-scale human societies in South America, Africa, and Asia, including three groups of foragers, six groups of slash-and-burn horticulturists, four groups of nomadic herders, and two groups of small-scale agriculturists. The games (Ultimatum, Dictator, Public Goods) they implemented all place subjects in situations broadly resembling that of the Trust game discussed earlier in this section. That is, Ultimatum and Public Goods games are scenarios in which social welfare can be maximized, and each individual's welfare maximized (Pareto efficiency achieved) if and only if at least some players use strategies that are not sub-game perfect equilibrium strategies (see Section 2.6). In Dictator games, a narrowly selfish first mover would capture all available profits. Thus in each of the three game types, SPE players who cared only about their own monetary welfare would get outcomes that would involve massively inegalitarian payoffs. In none of the societies studied by Henrich et al. (or any other society in which games of this sort have been run) are such outcomes observed. The players whose roles are such that they would take away all but epsilon of the monetary profits if they and their partners played SPE always offered the partners substantially more than epsilon, and even then partners sometimes refused such offers at the cost of receiving no money. Furthermore, unlike the traditional subjects of experimental economics — university students in industrialized countries — Henrich et al.'s subjects did not even play Nash equilibrium strategies with respect to monetary payoffs. (That is, strategically advantaged players offered larger profit splits to strategically disadvantaged ones than was necessary to induce agreement to their offers.) Henrich et al. interpret these results by saying that all actual people, unlike ‘rational economic man’, value egalitarian outcomes to some extent. However, their experiments also show that this extent varies significantly with culture, and is correlated with variations in two specific cultural variables: typical payoffs to cooperation (the extent to which economic life in the society depends on cooperation with non-immediate kin) and aggregate market integration (a construct built out of independently measured degrees of social complexity, anonymity, privacy, and settlement size). As the values of these two variables increase, game behavior shifts (weakly) in the direction of Nash equilibrium play. Thus the researchers conclude that people are genetically endowed with a preference for egalitarianism, but that the relative weight of this preference is programmable by social learning processes conditioned on local cultural cues.

In evaluating Henrich et al.'s interpretation of the data, we should first note that the axioms defining ‘rational economic man’, which are incorporated into game theory in the way discussed in Section 2.1, do not include the property of selfishness. (See Ross (2005a) ch. 4; Binmore (2005b); and any economics or game theory text that lets the mathematics do the talking and doesn't insist on ‘spinning’ it in one idealogical direction or another.) (Emphasis mine) Orthodox game theory thus does not predict that people will play SPE or NE strategies derived by treating monetary payoffs as equivalent to utility. Binmore (2005b) is therefore justified in taking Henrich et al. to task over their fashionable rhetoric suggesting that their empirical work embarrasses orthodox theory. It does not.


May not come as a great surprise to some people, but still...as far as I see this, it appears to me as though these results from neuro- and experimental economics (at least as far as game theory is concerned) suggest that we are trained in some way due to our existence in a large social setting to behave in ways that are sub-optimal now. Of course, there may be a simple explanation for this: in the Prisoner's Dilemma, it pays for both agents not to do the "selfish" thing, and things like the Sicilian Omerta are basically attempts to preempt the inability of two captured fugitives to communicate with each other. So an intelligent human being, if he or she really can't expect any future pay-off from others, may choose to play a subgame perfect choice and thus ruin things for everyone. The choice not to do so is then due to self-interest in thinking beyond the immediate game.

So what do you reckon? Genuine altruism, or deferred self-interest?
Last edited by Neu Leonstein on Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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New Limacon
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby New Limacon » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:16 pm

Neu Leonstein wrote:May not come as a great surprise to some people, but still...as far as I see this, it appears to me as though these results from neuro- and experimental economics (at least as far as game theory is concerned) suggest that we are trained in some way due to our existence in a large social setting to behave in ways that are sub-optimal now. Of course, there may be a simple explanation for this: in the Prisoner's Dilemma, it pays for both agents not to do the "selfish" thing, and things like the Sicilian Omerta are basically attempts to preempt the inability of two captured fugitives to communicate with each other. So an intelligent human being, if he or she really can't expect any future pay-off from others, may choose to play a subgame perfect choice and thus ruin things for everyone. The choice not to do so is then due to self-interest in thinking beyond the immediate game.

So what do you reckon? Genuine altruism, or deferred self-interest?

The type is very small, and I didn't read every word, so correct me if I misunderstood either article:
the first was saying when monkeys are in a working/shirking game, both the inspector monkey (who wants as much work done with as little possible monitoring) and the worker/shirker monkey (who wants to avoid work but avoid getting caught) act rationally, according to game theory. In the second article, people do not act rationally (in that they don't choose the strategy that would maximize their payoff), at least not with small amounts. Is that correct?
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Neu Leonstein
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Neu Leonstein » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:17 pm

New Limacon wrote:The type is very small, and I didn't read every word, so correct me if I misunderstood either article:
the first was saying when monkeys are in a working/shirking game, both the inspector monkey (who wants as much work done with as little possible monitoring) and the worker/shirker monkey (who wants to avoid work but avoid getting caught) act rationally, according to game theory. In the second article, people do not act rationally (in that they don't choose the strategy that would maximize their payoff), at least not with small amounts. Is that correct?

Yeah, although it should be qualified a little: the two were different games, so maybe if you let monkeys play public goods games they become all altruistic as well.

I'll also make the font bigger.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Barringtonia » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:19 pm

EDIT: I should read the article closer...

Betting gives a good insight into this, humans are affected by so many factors other than straight odds. We might have country or team support, which skews our judgement, we might look to go for the outsider as, previously, we've looked smart for doing so,

Essentially, I suspect the monkey doesn't have all these other factors, allowing it to make the straight choice that, given the odds, is correct for a greater percentage of the time.

Yet isn't this what quants were supposed to exploit, the odds that normal humans go against; and part of the issue is that when you pour huge money into the odds, when the 'black swan' event does occur, it has far greater effect.

So going against the odds and having the variety might, in some way, be a protection against critical failure.
Last edited by Barringtonia on Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Trippoli » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:21 pm

People are monkeys. Just really smart ones.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Barringtonia » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:38 pm

Reading a little closer, I still agree with my point, that sub-optimal choice when applied to a large population is beneficial in that, overall, it provides greater options for choice. If a population is constrained to following the odds that result in the perceived greatest benefit, this excludes greater chance and therefore greater variety.

I often come back to the mutation example, that an individual under stress throws out more mutations than when healthy - although 99.9% of these mutations are of either neutral or negative effect, one might think this isn't the best strategy, but when applied over a population then the odds are that the .1% comes into effect for at least one individual, and that's all that's required for a cure to propogate.

Beyond that, in throwing all caution to the wind, you're creating greater variety and therefore more options for an unexpected, against the odds, beneficial solution, you're not trapped by previous experience.

I think the ability of humans to make the wrong choice, and often, is, counter-intuitively, of benefit.

EDIT: Has spellcheck disappeared on these boards?
Last edited by Barringtonia on Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Sarkhaan » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:10 pm

Trippoli wrote:People are monkeys. Just really smart ones.

People are apes. Apes are not monkeys. [/nitpick over pet peve]

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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby The South Islands » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:12 pm

We knew this. Primates don't trade mortgage (or margaritaville brand margarita maker) derivatives.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Scolopendra » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:26 pm

I wonder what role language plays in this. Monkeys are, for all intents and purposes, language-neutral so when they are being trained to play this game they do not arrive at any preconceived notions regarding working, shirking, winning, losing, et cetera. Meanwhile, in training humans to play this game language must be used (if you try to tell someone how to do something the same way you'd train a monkey you'd quickly frustrate them) and this usage of language will inevitably cause biases in the minds of the human players because language holds meaning and connotation that human players may cue on.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Barringtonia » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:49 pm

Scolopendra wrote:I wonder what role language plays in this. Monkeys are, for all intents and purposes, language-neutral so when they are being trained to play this game they do not arrive at any preconceived notions regarding working, shirking, winning, losing, et cetera. Meanwhile, in training humans to play this game language must be used (if you try to tell someone how to do something the same way you'd train a monkey you'd quickly frustrate them) and this usage of language will inevitably cause biases in the minds of the human players because language holds meaning and connotation that human players may cue on.


Would the subjects necessarily know anything other than they were making a choice, as in 'shirking' and 'winning' are merely used by assessors in describing the actions,
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Scolopendra » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:58 pm

The researchers had to describe the objectives or at least the rules of the game in some fashion. Otherwise the players have no idea what they're trying to accomplish and just have unlabeled buttons to push.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Barringtonia » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:59 pm

Scolopendra wrote:The researchers had to describe the objectives or at least the rules of the game in some fashion. Otherwise the players have no idea what they're trying to accomplish and just have unlabeled buttons to push.


Hmm, then it's not an equal experiment
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Scolopendra » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:04 pm

That's sort of what I'm getting at. I can't say so definitively without knowing the particulars of the experiment, though.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Barringtonia » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:07 pm

I still think, even on a trial and error basis, humans would start to experiment more in terms of sub-optimal decisions, if nothing else they'd become a little bored of the best result and would therefore mix it up, leading to a more varied form of response overall compared to apes.

As in, even where there's no real language options, merely observation on effect, humans would remain more varied.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:25 pm

First off I have only skimmed the link. But I have book marked it for later review as I like the topic.

I would be curious to the species used. Looking through the references; it seems it centers on game theory.

Part of the problem with your choices is they are stepping into the realm of anthropomorphism. Trying to define it by human philosophies; just doesn't work.

However, since you have asked; I will answer the same. It's a little of both. Primates (chimps being the masters) are always in constant motion for changing the order of things. Coalition building is always at play as you can see alliances over come brute power. Dr. Goodall wrote about a few alphas that were not exceptionally large but obtained and maintained power by the alliances they build. You can argue they are serving their selfish interest by being altruistic. But; those are human labels.

It does not serve the groups interest to be selfish. Healthy males are useful when a leopard comes calling. Even though they could be competitors to you. Healthy females mean offspring even though they can hook up with a competitor.

There is much more that can be said.

Finally, of all the primate species; I think we are the only ones that will screw others and each other for a percentage......
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Neu Leonstein » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:56 pm

Barringtonia wrote:I still think, even on a trial and error basis, humans would start to experiment more in terms of sub-optimal decisions, if nothing else they'd become a little bored of the best result and would therefore mix it up, leading to a more varied form of response overall compared to apes.

Become bored of the best result? As in "I don't feel like maximising my pay-off today, let's try to do something else"?
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Barringtonia » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:58 pm

Neu Leonstein wrote:
Barringtonia wrote:I still think, even on a trial and error basis, humans would start to experiment more in terms of sub-optimal decisions, if nothing else they'd become a little bored of the best result and would therefore mix it up, leading to a more varied form of response overall compared to apes.

Become bored of the best result? As in "I don't feel like maximising my pay-off today, let's try to do something else"?


Yes, although one might also define 'maximising' and 'pay-off', where experimentation and curiosity over effects is also a reward.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Agolthia » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:13 am

Barringtonia wrote:
Neu Leonstein wrote:
Barringtonia wrote:I still think, even on a trial and error basis, humans would start to experiment more in terms of sub-optimal decisions, if nothing else they'd become a little bored of the best result and would therefore mix it up, leading to a more varied form of response overall compared to apes.

Become bored of the best result? As in "I don't feel like maximising my pay-off today, let's try to do something else"?


Yes, although one might also define 'maximising' and 'pay-off', where experimentation and curiosity over effects is also a reward.


Surely even the fact that the human participants are playing a sort of game would increase the chances of experimentation because ultimately it doesn't matter to them as much as real work would.

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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Neu Leonstein » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:17 am

Agolthia wrote:Surely even the fact that the human participants are playing a sort of game would increase the chances of experimentation because ultimately it doesn't matter to them as much as real work would.

Generally in experimental economics people get to keep whatever they win in the experiment. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point.
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Re: Monkeys are better economists than people

Postby Agolthia » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:29 am

Neu Leonstein wrote:
Agolthia wrote:Surely even the fact that the human participants are playing a sort of game would increase the chances of experimentation because ultimately it doesn't matter to them as much as real work would.

Generally in experimental economics people get to keep whatever they win in the experiment. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point.


Fair enough. That said, I still think the artificalness of the experiment setting is not exactly comparably to real life ecconomics. There is more freedom to experiment and play around with your options, you might lose a bit of prize money but you might have a bit more fun.

The conclusion that people aren't acting rationally when they don't always goes for the maxium payout rests on the belief that the only rational thing to conisder is the size of the payout. When we are talking about an experiment with very few long term consequences, satisfying your curiousity could be considered worthwhile as well.


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