Africa in turmoil, Blame Europe!!

[Trippoli]

Well kids, it all started with the "Scramble for Africa", when European empires scrambled for land and resources.



Europe sucked many resources from the continent. Slaves, Gold, Gems, Ivory, and many other luxuries. Africa under European control was much more better off than it is today. They had less wars, they didn't have the AIDs pandemic, and it was some what economically stable. Human rights were not the best however.

After World War 2 and the 60's, Europe decided to let go of Africa and parts of the Middle-East. But when they did..

-They set no boundaries or borders for its many colonies resulting in territorial disputes that on many occasions lead to war.
-They did not select many legitimate politicians or leaders to be put in power which opened a door for tyrants.
-They put little effort into getting rid of diseases that crippled the continent.
-They gave little financial aid to the newly formed countries which resulted in the fight for resources in neighboring countries and lack of public services such as Schools, Roads, Police, and Medical Aid.
-They did not set boundaries/borders for rival religions such as Christians and Muslims or Ethnic Groups (See Darfur: Sudan, Congo, and Reason #1)
-They gave little protection to legitimate governed countries from Military Juntas and Military Dictatorships.

Many of these reasons lead to war and Military Dictatorships. Which seems to be the reason why Africa's economy and Infrastructure is so fucked up.
If you have any other reasons, I encourage you to contribute to the list.

Now I am not trying to slam Europe, but I believe it is their responsibility to make sure the countries they give independence is in check. That means give them aid and set boundaries until they can care for themselves.

[Trippoli]

you bore me NSG.

[Flammable Ice]

After the second world war, the European countries were all broke. The only country that ended up economically stronger, AFAIK, after WW2 was the USA.

[Tokos]

Contemporary conflicts in Africa often can be traced back to the European colonial history, it is a fact - Belgium's mishandling of the Congo being the most salient example

However, Africa being Africa, they'd still find something to fight over in the absence of Europeans.

[Trippoli]

After the second world war, the European countries were all broke. The only country that ended up economically stronger, AFAIK, after WW2 was the USA.

Then perhaps they should have returned once they were economically stable.

[Lackadaisical2]

-They set no boundaries or borders for its many colonies resulting in territorial disputes that on many occasions lead to war.

Source?

-They put little effort into getting rid of diseases that crippled the continent.
-They gave little financial aid to the newly formed countries which resulted in the fight for resources in neighboring countries and lack of public services such as Schools, Roads, Police, and Medical Aid.

Why would they? That'd be awfully costly, especially since they were about to lose control of those nations anyway. Regardless, roads were built in as much as they aided commerce.

-They did not set boundaries/borders for rival religions such as Christians and Muslims or Ethnic Groups (See Darfur: Sudan, Congo, and Reason #1)

Many countries are capable of dealing with a diverse environment, some of them in Africa.

-They gave little protection to legitimate governed countries from Military Juntas and Military Dictatorships.

I don't see this as a responsibility after the fact to guarantee their sovereignty.

Now I am not trying to slam Europe, but I believe it is their responsibility to make sure the countries they give independence is in check. That means give them aid and set boundaries until they can care for themselves.

Well, so few did it willingly, that its not a surprise that Europe wasn't about to hand over billions just to be nice about the whole thing after slaughtering so many to try and stop such a break. The secessionists got what they wanted, so I wouldn't complain about lack of aid.

you bore me NSG.

;-(

You're a meanie.

[Unilisia]

Well kids, it all started with the "Scramble for Africa", when European empires scrambled for land and resources.



Europe sucked many resources from the continent. Slaves, Gold, Gems, Ivory, and many other luxuries. Africa under European control was much more better off than it is today. They had less wars, they didn't have the AIDs pandemic, and it was some what economically stable. Human rights were not the best however.

After World War 2 and the 60's, Europe decided to let go of Africa and parts of the Middle-East. But when they did..

-They set no boundaries or borders for its many colonies resulting in territorial disputes that on many occasions lead to war.
-They did not select many legitimate politicians or leaders to be put in power which opened a door for tyrants.
-They put little effort into getting rid of diseases that crippled the continent.
-They gave little financial aid to the newly formed countries which resulted in the fight for resources in neighboring countries and lack of public services such as Schools, Roads, Police, and Medical Aid.
-They did not set boundaries/borders for rival religions such as Christians and Muslims or Ethnic Groups (See Darfur: Sudan, Congo, and Reason #1)
-They gave little protection to legitimate governed countries from Military Juntas and Military Dictatorships.

Many of these reasons lead to war and Military Dictatorships. Which seems to be the reason why Africa's economy and Infrastructure is so fucked up.
If you have any other reasons, I encourage you to contribute to the list.

Now I am not trying to slam Europe, but I believe it is their responsibility to make sure the countries they give independence is in check. That means give them aid and set boundaries until they can care for themselves.

Err, you mean Western and Central Europe. Eastern Europe and Russia didn't have colonies in Africa, we already had big continuous empires.

[Newluther]

You cant blame europe now, Sure they screwed up but now the africans are in control. They can do what they want.

[Darenjo]

This would've been appropriate before the global economic meltdown, but Europe has its own problems now with Greece and Spain and Italy, so Africa isn't really on their agenda right now.

[The Grand World Order]

Explain South Africa. Could their stability have anything to do with Apartheid, I wonder?

[Trippoli]

Explain South Africa. Could their stability have anything to do with Apartheid, I wonder?

South Africa isn't exactly a touch of class. But it is a miracle in that shit of a continent.

[Flammable Ice]

Of course, we could just narrow the blame to Germany for starting WW2...

[The Grand World Order]

Explain South Africa. Could their stability have anything to do with Apartheid, I wonder?

South Africa isn't exactly a touch of class. But it is a miracle in that shit of a continent.

And right now it seems to be deteriorating, ever since Apartheid ended. Coincidence?

[Trippoli]

Explain South Africa. Could their stability have anything to do with Apartheid, I wonder?

South Africa isn't exactly a touch of class. But it is a miracle in that shit of a continent.

And right now it seems to be deteriorating, ever since Apartheid ended. Coincidence?

That means it was a legitimate state. Yes, a coincidence. Do you see any other part of the continent prospering any time soon?

[Yootopia]

After World War 2 and the 60's, Europe decided to let go of Africa and parts of the Middle-East. But when they did..

*insert full of shite list*

I'm pretty sure they made the borders pretty clear. The British empire at least had the whole NIBMAR thing to try to stop the more repressive supremacist regimes like Rhodesia from gaining recognition as a proper state, can't really speak for the French empire as I don't know a great deal about that.

As to Europe 'not putting much effort in in terms of fighting disease', the WHO and LoNHO were/are still funded with a lot of European support, and both work(ed) in Africa to try and cut down on diseases. Not much you can do there, really. Also splitting countries up into ethnic and religious groupings is a shit idea, so there we go.

Is Europe to blame for the current crises in Africa? No. Most of the African colonies were let free in the 1960s. We might as well blame the latest economic recession on the polices of Harold Macmillan and demand compensation from anyone who voted Tory in 1959.

[Ravea]

Explain South Africa. Could their stability have anything to do with Apartheid, I wonder?

Are you implying Apartheid was a good thing?

[Herminia]

I'd like to point out that ALL the Genocide and War in Africa actually dates back to pre-Colonial days when the Africans were simple tribesmen. There was much racism and rivalry between the tribes, though when the Europeans came, they united the tribes, and there wasn't anything to cause them to fight against each other for fear of the swift and brutal reaction by the Colonial powers.

When the colonies collapsed after WWII, the tribesmen no longer had to worry about the Euros getting on their backs and went back to their old tribal racism and rivalry, leading to Genocides like the ones in Rwanda and Darfur. So, yes, Europe's PARTLY to blame here, though the blame's more due to the native Africans' old tribal rivalries here. And the place's cursed spiritually, the Africans' magic practices caused Demons to be summoned, thus causing them to make the continent miserable.

In short, Africa's beautiful, but its people are cursed and racially divided.

[North Wiedna]

I blame AIDS.
Partly.

[Brogavia]

Of course, we could just narrow the blame to Germany for starting WW2...

If you go back far enough, you blame the french for most of the world problems.

When Charlemagne's Empire was broken up at the Treaty of Verdun, Europe was divided into three parts, what is now France, what is now Germany, and what is now Italy and the land between the two. Not too long after, the northern parts of Middle Francia, the central part, fell apart and the Northern areas were divided between East Francia and West Francia. which left Just Italy, Western and Eastern Francia. The fighting between those two is what caused the problems between the French and the Germans for te next 1100 years, which in turn, destroyed Europe several times over, resulting in the mess that is Africa and Southest Asia.

As I have shown, France is to blame for the bulk of the worlds problems.

[Tokos]

I blame AIDS.
Partly.

Botswana has huge rates of AIDS but lacks many of the fuckuppery of the rest of the continent.

This may have to do with the fact that its first independent leader, Seretse Khama, was neither incompetent nor a corrupt psychopath, unlike so many other African leaders. In fact, he and Mandela seem to be the only two who weren't either of those two categories.

[South Norwega]

Well kids, it all started with the "Scramble for Africa", when European empires scrambled for land and resources.



Europe sucked many resources from the continent. Slaves, Gold, Gems, Ivory, and many other luxuries. Africa under European control was much more better off than it is today. They had less wars, they didn't have the AIDs pandemic, and it was some what economically stable. Human rights were not the best however.

After World War 2 and the 60's, Europe decided to let go of Africa and parts of the Middle-East. But when they did..

They had less wars because the European powers didn't really go to war with each other. Which put a stop to many pre-colonial wars. AIDs seems to have emerged in the 50s, or 80s, so of course it wasn't around.

-They set no boundaries or borders for its many colonies resulting in territorial disputes that on many occasions lead to war.

Blatantly false.

-They did not select many legitimate politicians or leaders to be put in power which opened a door for tyrants.

In some cases, yes. Notably the Congo almost completely lacked an educated class. However, legitimate politicians are not a terribly effective bulwark against tyrants, especially when other circumstances are considered.

-They put little effort into getting rid of diseases that crippled the continent.

Did they? Could you actually source one of these claims?

-They gave little financial aid to the newly formed countries which resulted in the fight for resources in neighboring countries and lack of public services such as Schools, Roads, Police, and Medical Aid.

There was much aid after independence, perhaps not in the right places, but saying little is incorrect.

-They did not set boundaries/borders for rival religions such as Christians and Muslims or Ethnic Groups (See Darfur: Sudan, Congo, and Reason #1)

How often do ethnic groups have clear and well defined boundaries? If you selected almost never, congratulations!

-They gave little protection to legitimate governed countries from Military Juntas and Military Dictatorships.

The African countries wanted them out. They often did not appreciate help. Some cases defy this, of course.

Many of these reasons lead to war and Military Dictatorships. Which seems to be the reason why Africa's economy and Infrastructure is so fucked up.

Or you know, corruption is another reason.

If you have any other reasons, I encourage you to contribute to the list.

Now I am not trying to slam Europe, but I believe it is their responsibility to make sure the countries they give independence is in check. That means give them aid and set boundaries until they can care for themselves.

Yes, you are slamming Europe, regardless of whether or not it is intentional. Also, the Europeans coming in and setting boundaries would be viewed as imperialism and would be resisted by the African countries.

[Kalysk]

Of course, we could just narrow the blame to Germany for starting WW2...

If you go back far enough, you blame the french for most of the world problems.

When Charlemagne's Empire was broken up at the Treaty of Verdun, Europe was divided into three parts, what is now France, what is now Germany, and what is now Italy and the land between the two. Not too long after, the northern parts of Middle Francia, the central part, fell apart and the Northern areas were divided between East Francia and West Francia. which left Just Italy, Western and Eastern Francia. The fighting between those two is what caused the problems between the French and the Germans for te next 1100 years, which in turn, destroyed Europe several times over, resulting in the mess that is Africa and Southest Asia.

As I have shown, France is to blame for the bulk of the worlds problems.

I fuckin' knew it.

[Sailsia]

Well, the global slave trade may have something to do with it, but yes, Europe did piss away a lot of resources, but by this point, the Africans are in power, its up to their people now. Although, I believe they could use a helping hand first, but I'm sure other won't feel the same way.

[East Fancainia]

Why should I care? How would I debate this? It's true facts. It really doesn't matter that much now that the Africans sold half their population into slavery, and then got taken over. What are you going to say next? A man was the first human to get AIDS?

[Tokos]

Only idiots blame the slave trade. Though it had a huge effect on West Africa at the time, it was neither the White man's fault, nor is it still a factor.