Israel attacks Aid workers (Israel megathred)

[Aldarminia]

Off-topic. They actually did find yellow cake uranium. I wonder what that was used for? I don't think Iraq had nuclear power plants.

On July 2008, 550 metric tonnes of "yellowcake" the last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium, arrived in Montreal as part of a top-secret U.S. operation. This transport of the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment, included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a voyage across two oceans. The Iraqi government sold the yellowcake to a Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp., in a transaction the official described as worth "tens of millions of dollars.

yes. And they found the stockpile in Iraq. Also, Iraq's actual military while Saddam was in power was a piece of ----. Any uprising could've overthrown Saddam by simply marching into Baghdad, hunting down Saddam and killing him. So how do you think he quelled the uprisings?

[Risottia]

By the way, still about the UN Convention on High Seas, I think that article 22 would be quite meaningful in this case, as the Turkish ships were sailing under Turkish flag, and weren't engaging in piracy or in slave trade.
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... h_seas.pdf

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

Did they actually claim that? Source?

Anyway, wouldn't it be a bit of an overkill, hijacking a ship to "verify its right to fly the flag"? Asking for the papers would have been better.

[Non Aligned States]

Specifically, 96 and 98 would seem to apply.

96 and 98 talk about ships that are in the process of breaching a blockade, not "maybe they will" or "somewhere out there going to". If this is the case, then we might as well have a blockade of some nowhere country and bomb Israeli ships in Israeli harbours, claiming that they were "going to breach the blockade"

[Conserative Morality]

yes. And they found the stockpile in Iraq. Also, Iraq's actual military while Saddam was in power was a piece of ----. Any uprising could've overthrown Saddam by simply marching into Baghdad, hunting down Saddam and killing him. So how do you think he quelled the uprisings?

Do you know anything about Iraq? The Iraqi Military was perfectly competent, it merely had trouble rebuilding after the Gulf War.

[Non Aligned States]

A:Israel is allowing food and medical supplies through as well as other objects required for survival. It may be doing so fairly inefficiently but it is doing so annnnd I'm giong to want a source for the " All independent organizations are in agreement that Israel blocks 2/3s of the needed material for Gazans to survive."

So by your definition, a death camp which only provides 1/10th of the food necessary to keep it's population alive is not a death camp, because it let's in 1/10th of the food necessary. Brilliant! We can now rub out genocide and ethnic cleansing from historical records, because there are still some survivors!

[Aldarminia]

yes. And they found the stockpile in Iraq. Also, Iraq's actual military while Saddam was in power was a piece of ----. Any uprising could've overthrown Saddam by simply marching into Baghdad, hunting down Saddam and killing him. So how do you think he quelled the uprisings?

Do you know anything about Iraq? The Iraqi Military was perfectly competent, it merely had trouble rebuilding after the Gulf War.

Exactly. Also, the war with Iran. I do know about Iraq. I could've sworn that there was at least one uprising after the Gulf War. If it hadn't been for some chemical weapon (I do believe any chemical weapon is a WMD) to quell the uprising, we wouldn't have had to invade Iraq in 2003.

To end this right here so as not to change the topic of the thread, we invaded Iraq because it was oppressive and it was harboring terrorists (mainly the latter).

[Greed and Death]

By the way, still about the UN Convention on High Seas, I think that article 22 would be quite meaningful in this case, as the Turkish ships were sailing under Turkish flag, and weren't engaging in piracy or in slave trade.
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... h_seas.pdf

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

Did they actually claim that? Source?

Anyway, wouldn't it be a bit of an overkill, hijacking a ship to "verify its right to fly the flag"? Asking for the papers would have been better.

If the ship refused to respond, they would be well able to claim it.
Though under the concepts of Universal jurisdiction, there is a concept of protective jurisdiction which would allow Israel to investigate/prosecute crimes outside of its territory.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I'm seeing this "piracy" nonsense spring up again. Let me re-post this:

There's been something going around that is simply wrong. THIS WAS NOT PIRACY.

Article 101
Definition of piracy
Piracy consists of any of the following acts:
61
(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of
depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the
passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:
(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or
against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;
(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place
outside the jurisdiction of any State;
(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or
of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or
aircraft;
(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act
described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

What Israel did and is doing is illegal in many ways as I've stated in the thread, but piracy is not one of their crimes.

[Greed and Death]

Okay found a handbook of international law.

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

from
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b50 ... 1f002d49ce

Part II section 5.

[Maurepas]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.

Medical supplies, deadly weapons...who can tell the difference anymore?

[Falafelistan]

These people should be thanking the Israelis for little casualties. Israelis defiantly did the nice thing by boarding the ship. Personally if the was the commanding officer on the Israeli ship I would engage with the main cannons before sending commandos in, Ships running blockades in an act of aggressions. Would a Soviet ship ever made it to Cuba if it charged a blockade in 1962? No.

[Greed and Death]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.

Medical supplies, deadly weapons...who can tell the difference anymore?

Unfortunately no one until after they board and search the vessel.

[Conserative Morality]

Exactly. Also, the war with Iran. I do know about Iraq. I could've sworn that there was at least one uprising after the Gulf War. If it hadn't been for some chemical weapon (I do believe any chemical weapon is a WMD) to quell the uprising, we wouldn't have had to invade Iraq in 2003.

Also, Iraq's actual military while Saddam was in power was a piece of ----. Any uprising could've overthrown Saddam by simply marching into Baghdad, hunting down Saddam and killing him.

Don't backpedal.

[Maurepas]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.

Medical supplies, deadly weapons...who can tell the difference anymore?

Unfortunately no one until after they board and search the vessel.

And if they just happen to shoot a few people in the back of the head...well, it was necessary work, can't be too careful.

[Falafelistan]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.

Medical supplies, deadly weapons...who can tell the difference anymore?

Unfortunately no one until after they board and search the vessel.

Deadly weapons, its a weird meaning. Like Hamburg, Its a city and also a name for a meat. Weird right?

Well take for example, I take a metal pipe and beat someone with it, I'm not going to be charged with "Assault with a lead pipe," I will be charged with Assault with a deadly weapon. There is no definition of deadly weapons.

I saw how protester's metal pipes where being used, wailing on a man on the ground like it was a club? Defiantly Assault with a deadly weapon.

Tell you what, Call the Police, say your mother is feeling pain in her chest. When the officer comes, hit him with a metal pipe, when hes on the ground continue. See if you don't end up with hot lead in your stomach.

In my opinion Israeli commandos shows restraint. I know my country wouldn't board that ship with paintball guns, rather M4s and shotguns.

[Greed and Death]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.

Medical supplies, deadly weapons...who can tell the difference anymore?

Unfortunately no one until after they board and search the vessel.

And if they just happen to shoot a few people in the back of the head...well, it was necessary work, can't be too careful.

The shooting was after they resisted the boarding and searching of the vessel.

[Conserative Morality]

In my opinion Israeli commandos shows restraint. I know my country wouldn't board that ship with paintball guns, rather M4s and shotguns.

And what the hell did the Israelis board with? Bouquets of flowers?

[Maurepas]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.

Medical supplies, deadly weapons...who can tell the difference anymore?

Unfortunately no one until after they board and search the vessel.

And if they just happen to shoot a few people in the back of the head...well, it was necessary work, can't be too careful.

The shooting was after they resisted the boarding and searching of the vessel.

Resisted with the deadly medical supplies or something?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Amazing self defence. You know, Israel can just use self defence to win every war they enter.

[Falafelistan]

In my opinion Israeli commandos shows restraint. I know my country wouldn't board that ship with paintball guns, rather M4s and shotguns.

And what the hell did the Israelis board with? Bouquets of flowers?

They boarded the ships non-lethal Paintball guns, and an auxiliary pistol with normal ammunition. Just in case they got wailed on with metal pipes.

[Conserative Morality]

They boarded the ships non-lethal Paintball guns, and an auxiliary pistol with normal ammunition. Just in case they got wailed on with metal pipes.

And we all saw what they used.

[Conserative Morality]

Amazing self defence. You know, Israel can just use self defence to win every war they enter.

And the guilt card to keep every western nation out.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Amazing self defence. You know, Israel can just use self defence to win every war they enter.

And the guilt card to keep every western nation out.

Crying antisemitism is probably their best weapon.

[Falafelistan]

They boarded the ships non-lethal Paintball guns, and an auxiliary pistol with normal ammunition. Just in case they got wailed on with metal pipes.

And we all saw what they used.

I didn't see too many videos of it, but we both know as outsiders either side in this fight can't be trusted. I'm guessing they used the pistols to shoot to kill.

[Chrobalta]

The shooting was after they resisted the boarding and searching of the vessel.

Yeah I know, who on Earth would defend themselves against piracy.