Israel attacks Aid workers (Israel megathred)

[Greed and Death]

Heading in the direction of a blockade and refusing communication orders to stop or divert is reasonable suspicion of trying to run the blockade I imagine.

If you have evidence that Israel is legally justified in it's interception of an aid ship in international articles, by all means, don't be silent.

Just because its an aid ship doesn't mean its not importing bombs and rockets into Gaza for Hamas to lob at Israel. If the convoy had nothing to hide, why not stop and allow the inspection?

If you have nothing to hide, why not let the police stop and search you every now and then, in the middle of the street (and in the middle of the night, with guns, helicopters, etc.), just in case?

If a police officer flashes his lights, I oblige and pull over. Don't you?

I am yet to find a police officer on foot who has flashing lights.

Or who would shoot me five times for resisting a search.

If I strike a police officer with a weapon I imagine him shooting me is a possibility. even more so if it is me and a dozen of my friends hitting him.

Not to mention that a police officer must have reason to stop and search you, and it must be within his jurisdiction.

Heading toward the blockade is reasonable suspicion of smuggling. Smuggling is a universal jurisdiction law, any navy can stop a suspected smuggler on the high seas and search them if presented with reasonable suspicion of smuggling.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Gulf war wasn't started by israel and is a whole nother story.
Israel to lebanon in 2006 was sparked by Lebanese militants
Gaza war was again sparked by militants.

'06 Was still an Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

The Gaza war was started by Israel refusing to abide by the Ceasefire agreement.

It was. It was also justified. Why does Israel have to put up with Lebanon supporting militia kidnapping and killing Israeli citizens? The kidnapping that sparked it was not a one off either.

Same story with Gaza. Hamas was firing rockets into Israeli territory. Should Israel tolerate that? Who violated the agreement first?

[Greed and Death]

By the way, still about the UN Convention on High Seas, I think that article 22 would be quite meaningful in this case, as the Turkish ships were sailing under Turkish flag, and weren't engaging in piracy or in slave trade.
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... h_seas.pdf

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

(Yes, I know this is an Israeli source, but it's good to see a complete perspective IMO).

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177342

The array of equipment found on board the ships that made up the Gaza aid flotilla was as divergent as the flotilla’s stated aims.

On the one hand there was medical equipment aimed to help ease the suffering of Gaza’s sick and handicapped, and on the other there were knives, slingshots and night vision goggles, which indicate hostile goals.

Israeli military officials have said that the amount of goods found on the ships are a drop in the sea compared to the amount of goods that regularly pass into Gaza, and extrapolated that it indicates that transfer of humanitarian assistance was not the top priority of the flotilla’s organizers.

According to the military, the 25-odd truckloads of equipment offloaded from the ships is roughly a quarter of the amount Israel transported into the Gaza strip every day.

According to the Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration, 100 truckloads of assorted goods are transferred into Gaza daily, and since the beginning of the year, nearly 11,000 trucks full of equipment have been transferred into Gaza.

Regarding the types of goods found in the ships’ cargo holds – wheelchairs, stretchers, hospital beds, electric wheelchairs, crutches, bandages, cotton swabs as well as food, clothing and toys – sources in the Gaza CLA say they are regularly allowed into Gaza and are not in shortage.

More can be found in the link.

That's not all. This video shows people aboard the "aid" ships brutally beating a small Israeli boarding party and throwing men overboard. Mind you, this was when they were just fastroping onto the deck, not a single shot had been fired yet. he Israelis initially just wanted to know what the fuck was going on, and they were being jumped with rods and tossed from the ship. This shooting was no massacre.

This is another video of the weapons found aboard the ships.

EDIT: Mind you, I also once agreed that Israel's actions were uncalled for. I didn't hear both sides.

[Aldarminia]

Most likely not self defence. But most definately defence of comrades. All soldier are taught to defend their comrades. Watch the video of the raid. It clearly shows the boat was packed and almost everyone that wasn't a commando had something in their hands and were trying to beat teh commandos with it. So close quarters combat on the boat should be expected.

Also, watch the video.The first Israeli commando onboard to be attacked was attacked after going down the rope. If you've ever watched troops go down a rope, they're using both hands and are nver shooting. They don't because it's dangerous. So no commandos could have fire until getting on the boat unless they fire from the helicopter which is shown by the video that never happened. Also, I doubt the raided boat was JUST an aid boat. Why were there gasmasks onboard. Israel doesn't bomb Gaza with chemical weapons.

[Helertia]

See the sticky? Go post there

[Conserative Morality]

Who violated the agreement first?

Israel.

[Conserative Morality]

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

By landing a military force onto an aid ship?

[Yootopia]

This shooting was no massacre.

False.

[Ifreann]

We really cannot have enough threads on this. In fact, you should go make another one, OP.

[Molkh]

That's not all. This video shows people aboard the "aid" ships brutally beating a small Israeli boarding party and throwing men overboard. Mind you, this was when they were just fastroping onto the deck, not a single shot had been fired yet. he Israelis initially just wanted to know what the fuck was going on, and they were being jumped with rods and tossed from the ship. This shooting was no massacre.

Excuse me, but Israel was well outside its territorial waters. Israel committed an act of piracy by fastroping onto that deck. Which is, uhm, a crime, as far as I know. Which is why Israel is fully responsible for initiating the violence that ensued. Because people have a right to self-defense in case of piracy.

Also: take this to the mega-thread.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Who violated the agreement first?

Israel.

I didn't know Israel doubled as Hamas and clevery shot rockets at their own country, thus giving them reason to invade. Of course, it all makes sense.

[Greed and Death]

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

By landing a military force onto an aid ship?

yeah, on the high seas the navy is the police.

[Molkh]

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

By landing a military force onto an aid ship?

yeah, on the high seas the navy is the police.

Only inside the territorial waters! And Israel was many miles outside its territorial waters, and it had no right whatsoever to fastrope itself onto that aid ship at that time.

[Conserative Morality]

I didn't know Israel doubled as Hamas and clevery shot rockets at their own country, thus giving them reason to invade. Of course, it all makes sense.

On 19 December 2008 a fragile six-month Israel-Hamas ceasefire was set to expire. Following Israel's violation of the ceasefire on November 4,[32], there were sporadic violent clashes along the Israeli-Gaza border for the following two months, as well as a stepping up of the blockade of Gaza, which had been in place since 2000

[Maurepas]

Of course not, Somalians aren't the chosen people of God, so, we don't have to blindly defend them.

[Greed and Death]

The Israelis were investigating their right to fly the Turkish flag.

By landing a military force onto an aid ship?

yeah, on the high seas the navy is the police.

Only inside the territorial waters! And Israel was many miles outside its territorial waters, and it had no right whatsoever to fastrope itself onto that aid ship at that time.

Actually you can not have high seas and territorial waters.
Also Israel would clearly have a case for protective jurisdiction in this case.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9MD9CK ... on&f=false

Page 25 if it doesn't take you there.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I didn't know Israel doubled as Hamas and clevery shot rockets at their own country, thus giving them reason to invade. Of course, it all makes sense.

On 19 December 2008 a fragile six-month Israel-Hamas ceasefire was set to expire. Following Israel's violation of the ceasefire on November 4,[32], there were sporadic violent clashes along the Israeli-Gaza border for the following two months, as well as a stepping up of the blockade of Gaza, which had been in place since 2000

the 'claimed violation' was an israeli defensive mission.

[Conserative Morality]

the 'claimed violation' was an israeli defensive mission.

Uhu. And Iraq had WMDs.

[Aldarminia]

the 'claimed violation' was an israeli defensive mission.

Uhu. And Iraq had WMDs.

Off-topic. They actually did find yellow cake uranium. I wonder what that was used for? I don't think Iraq had nuclear power plants.

[Vitaphone Racing]

the 'claimed violation' was an israeli defensive mission.

Uhu. And Iraq had WMDs.

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

[Non Aligned States]

The same justifications, as in all commercial traffic that you are seizing are approaching a blockaded nation carrying supplies, which maybe or may not be prohibited by the blockading nations, with the stated intent of running the blockade in an attempt to circumnavigate the established procedures for the delivery of supplies to a militant run country. Is that what you mean by the same justifications?

No damnit. You only can intercept and board a ship if it is already at your blockade and is attempting to run it despite warnings not to.

Let me put this in terms you can understand. If Israel was a household, what it's doing is running out onto the street, shotgunning a truck driver on a public road and hijacking his truck claiming that it's full of "dangerous things".

If that's the sort of thing that's fine with you, then there's no reason why the same shouldn't be applied to all Israeli shipping.

[Conserative Morality]

Off-topic. They actually did find yellow cake uranium. I wonder what that was used for? I don't think Iraq had nuclear power plants.

On July 2008, 550 metric tonnes of "yellowcake" the last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium, arrived in Montreal as part of a top-secret U.S. operation. This transport of the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment, included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a voyage across two oceans. The Iraqi government sold the yellowcake to a Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp., in a transaction the official described as worth "tens of millions of dollars.

[WWII History Geeks]

I don't trust Isreal. Never have, never will. I am convinced this was murder. Why? Cuz I got a gut feeling.

[Conserative Morality]

Just like that convoy was carrying much needed aid.

Medical supplies, what terrible cargo.