Israel attacks Aid workers (Israel megathred)

[Conserative Morality]

Um, it never specifically says in said the article linked that it is illegal, unless of course, I'm missing something.

And yes, Isreal is most definitly being a creul sadistic bastard at this point in time. They should have apoligized and not have tried to justfy the killings, because they can never be justified.

An occupying power is obliged to follow the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, which seeks to protect the civilian population.[20] The Security Council held in 1979 that the Fourth Convention applies in the territories captured by Israel in 1967, including Gaza.

[Greed and Death]

Um, no, I mean the blockade against weapons and munitions into Gaza which is completely legal under international law. People in Berlin needed food and water. And, yes, I do have a problem with them attacking the ships, which you would have realized if you had read my entire post.*eyeroll*

They were going to try for the blockade, ergo, they needed to be checked. They refused to be checked. However, everything after that was an absolute failure of policy on the Israelis. They should have disabled the ships and then towed them to shore to be checked peacefully before lettig them go about their humanitarian duties.

Illegal under international law.

You have no proof that they were going to try for the blockade. They intercepted a ship in international waters, armed, and killed aid workers.

Real fucking great job, Israel, it's not like that's in violation of any international agreements or anything crazy like that! And of course, if it was, you'd follow it, and immediately apologize, instead of justifying killing hippies with sticks shamelessly in front of the world!

Heading in the direction of a blockade and refusing communicated orders to stop or divert is reasonable suspicion of trying to run the blockade I imagine.

[Conserative Morality]

Heading in the direction of a blockade and refusing communication orders to stop or divert is reasonable suspicion of trying to run the blockade I imagine.

If you have evidence that Israel is legally justified in it's interception of an aid ship in international articles, by all means, don't be silent.

[Risottia]

Um, no, I mean the blockade against weapons and munitions into Gaza which is completely legal under international law.

Actually the blockade against Gaza includes in the list of forbidden items also A4 paper sheets, concrete and wood. Terrible weapons, those.
Face it, the Israeli government is just trying to starve the people of Gaza into submission.

[Risottia]

One question, were they all 9mm hand gun rounds ?
If so that would support Israel's claim it wasn't until they landed on the deck and met resistance that they started shooting.

Which, of course, would give the Israeli soldiers no rightful reason to shoot anyway, as they weren't being shoot upon, and they were boarding illegally a foreing ship in international waters. That's piracy.

For the last time, no it isn't.

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... /part7.htm

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

We've been through this already.

Ok... so it's an act of war instead.

[Galloism]

One question, were they all 9mm hand gun rounds ?
If so that would support Israel's claim it wasn't until they landed on the deck and met resistance that they started shooting.

Which, of course, would give the Israeli soldiers no rightful reason to shoot anyway, as they weren't being shoot upon, and they were boarding illegally a foreing ship in international waters. That's piracy.

For the last time, no it isn't.

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... /part7.htm

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

We've been through this already.

Ok... so it's an act of war instead.

Possibly. I'm not entirely up on what consitutes an "act of war" and I don't have time to research every little thing that can.

However, it's not piracy.

[Seperates]

Um, no, I mean the blockade against weapons and munitions into Gaza which is completely legal under international law.

Actually the blockade against Gaza includes in the list of forbidden items also A4 paper sheets, concrete and wood. Terrible weapons, those.
Face it, the Israeli government is just trying to starve the people of Gaza into submission.

Which, on all accounts, is a viable military tactic. When did war stop being war? When did we all start shooting each other with water pistols and hitting each other with pillows? Isreal is at war with another group of people who have tried to kill them. They've a right to be paranoid.

They're still bloody idiots though...

[Seperates]

One question, were they all 9mm hand gun rounds ?
If so that would support Israel's claim it wasn't until they landed on the deck and met resistance that they started shooting.

Which, of course, would give the Israeli soldiers no rightful reason to shoot anyway, as they weren't being shoot upon, and they were boarding illegally a foreing ship in international waters. That's piracy.

For the last time, no it isn't.

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... /part7.htm

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

We've been through this already.

Ok... so it's an act of war instead.

They're already at war. They've always been at war, and will always be at war until everyone accepts their right to exist.

[Conserative Morality]

Ok... so it's an act of war instead.

Not certain about that. The Blockade is not against Turkey, and while killing civilians can be a Casus Belli, it's usually not accepted as such before certain other steps are taken.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Heading in the direction of a blockade and refusing communication orders to stop or divert is reasonable suspicion of trying to run the blockade I imagine.

If you have evidence that Israel is legally justified in it's interception of an aid ship in international articles, by all means, don't be silent.

Just because its an aid ship doesn't mean its not importing bombs and rockets into Gaza for Hamas to lob at Israel. If the convoy had nothing to hide, why not stop and allow the inspection?

[Nadkor]

Um, no, I mean the blockade against weapons and munitions into Gaza which is completely legal under international law.

OK. You believe yourself, I'll believe the UNHRC.

People in Berlin needed food and water.

And people in Gaza don't, presumably. Despite 1/3 of children in Gaza being anaemic.

They presumably don't need light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, pasta, tea, coffee, chocolate, nuts, or shampoo, either. Or cement, wood, and concrete.

All of which have been blocked by Israel.

They were going to try for the blockade, ergo, they needed to be checked.

You mean like every flight into East Berlin needed to be checked?

[Conserative Morality]

Which, on all accounts, is a viable military tactic. When did war stop being war? When did we all start shooting each other with water pistols and hitting each other with pillows? Isreal is at war with another group of people who have tried to kill them. They've a right to be paranoid.

They're still bloody idiots though...

Israel cannot be at war, not occupying, recognizing them as under the control of Hamas, and at peace with them all at once.

[Conserative Morality]

Just because its an aid ship doesn't mean its not importing bombs and rockets into Gaza for Hamas to lob at Israel. If the convoy had nothing to hide, why not stop and allow the inspection?

International Waters, they were not obligated to do so. With Israel's reputation, I wouldn't stop for them unless legally obligated to either.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Which, on all accounts, is a viable military tactic. When did war stop being war? When did we all start shooting each other with water pistols and hitting each other with pillows? Isreal is at war with another group of people who have tried to kill them. They've a right to be paranoid.

They're still bloody idiots though...

Israel cannot be at war, not occupying, recognizing them as under the control of Hamas, and at peace with them all at once.

Is that Israels fault? Wait, which country was invaded four times in two decades?

[Conserative Morality]

They're already at war. They've always been at war, and will always be at war until everyone accepts their right to exist.

Who, Palestine?

[Seperates]

Which, on all accounts, is a viable military tactic. When did war stop being war? When did we all start shooting each other with water pistols and hitting each other with pillows? Isreal is at war with another group of people who have tried to kill them. They've a right to be paranoid.

They're still bloody idiots though...

Israel cannot be at war, not occupying, recognizing them as under the control of Hamas, and at peace with them all at once.

They seem to think that they are all that... And that's why they are idiots.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Just because its an aid ship doesn't mean its not importing bombs and rockets into Gaza for Hamas to lob at Israel. If the convoy had nothing to hide, why not stop and allow the inspection?

International Waters, they were not obligated to do so. With Israel's reputation, I wouldn't stop for them unless legally obligated to either.

Its called customs, the ship was heading for the Gaza, which I believe is still Israeli territory.

No difference between a ship suspect of carrying rockets or a ship suspect of carrying cocaine.

[Conserative Morality]

Is that Israels fault? Wait, which country was invaded four times in two decades?

Not Israel. They had two wars and one invasion.

[Seperates]

They're already at war. They've always been at war, and will always be at war until everyone accepts their right to exist.

Who, Palestine?

Yes, my friend. They still think they are at war with Palestine, so they treat Gaza as a war zone.

[Vitaphone Racing]

They're already at war. They've always been at war, and will always be at war until everyone accepts their right to exist.

Who, Palestine?

thats them.

[Conserative Morality]

Its called customs, the ship was heading for the Gaza, which I believe is still Israeli territory.

No difference between a ship suspect of carrying rockets or a ship suspect of carrying cocaine.

*ahem*

Not in Israeli waters. Therefore, Israel had no right to stop them.

[Seperates]

Its called customs, the ship was heading for the Gaza, which I believe is still Israeli territory.

No difference between a ship suspect of carrying rockets or a ship suspect of carrying cocaine.

*ahem*

Not in Israeli waters. Therefore, Israel had no right to stop them.

Same senario probebly would have played out even if they HAD been in Israeli waters.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Is that Israels fault? Wait, which country was invaded four times in two decades?

Not Israel. They had two wars and one invasion.

I can count four seperate conflicts, none of which initiated by Israel.

[Nadkor]

Heading in the direction of a blockade and refusing communication orders to stop or divert is reasonable suspicion of trying to run the blockade I imagine.

If you have evidence that Israel is legally justified in it's interception of an aid ship in international articles, by all means, don't be silent.

Just because its an aid ship doesn't mean its not importing bombs and rockets into Gaza for Hamas to lob at Israel. If the convoy had nothing to hide, why not stop and allow the inspection?

If you have nothing to hide, why not let the police stop and search you every now and then, in the middle of the street (and in the middle of the night, with guns, helicopters, etc.), just in case?

[Galloism]

Its called customs, the ship was heading for the Gaza, which I believe is still Israeli territory.

No difference between a ship suspect of carrying rockets or a ship suspect of carrying cocaine.

*ahem*

Not in Israeli waters. Therefore, Israel had no right to stop them.

Same senario probebly would have played out even if they HAD been in Israeli waters.

Devil's in the details, as they say.

Israel should have waited. If they had been in Israeli waters when it happened, no one would have glanced twice.