Israel attacks Aid workers (Israel megathred)

[Vonners]

What does Isreal have to gain by attacking Aid workers? nothing. What do the Aid workersgain from being attacked? Everything

Interesting. I never said attacked. I am assuming you are commenting on my post...

Wasn't comenting on your post, just posting an observation about the attacks.

Fairy snuff:)

[Buffett and Colbert]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

And yet you provide no legit examples or sources. You're very convincing.

How about the fact that nations like the United states and Russia routinely opt out of Un resolutions? such as the resolutions banning the use of incendiary weapons, or the one banning the use of mines both countries refused to ratified them and thus do not abide by them.

And individual nations' fails make the UN a failure... how?

[The Old Anzian Natives]

Well, I wonder why people oppose this but didn't oppose the blockade on "Great Germany".

First, most of the people in here are not even old enough to oppose their teachers, not to speak of Nazi-Germany about seventy years ago; and second, did the Palestines declare war to half of the world, occupy almost whole Europe and kill a few millions of Jews in the holocaust ? On the contrary, they are the ones living in a kind of holocaust today...

Like what happened during the third reich, their government is a terrorist organisation that doesn't even want to recognise Israel. And the German people during the third reich practically had no legal means to rebel against their leaders, which is what's happening in Gaza.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

American christians actually believe this crap.

What, all of them? Really?

not literally all of them. But the ones on, for example, TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) for example.
There are others who believe that man controls his own destiny and that the purpose of the Biblical prophesies is to tell people what will happen if they chose the wrong path. But they do agree that Jesus will eventually have to invade and take over the earth, declaring himself absolute Monarch. But that is because they believe the governments of earth will ultimate fail.

[Nobel Hobos]

A blockade is an act of war. But of course, developed nations don't declare war nowadays do they?

[Dododecapod]

I haven't seen anyone bring up the point about the Blockade (I did skim the thread before I posted).

Yeah the blockade can only legally extend up to 24nm.

That's interesting...especially considering that many nations extend a 200 KM fishing control zone from their coasts. Where does the 24 Nautical Mile limit come from?

[The Corparation]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

And yet you provide no legit examples or sources. You're very convincing.

How about the fact that nations like the United states and Russia routinely opt out of Un resolutions? such as the resolutions banning the use of incendiary weapons, or the one banning the use of mines both countries refused to ratified them and thus do not abide by them.

And individual nations' fails make the UN a failure... how?

Because the two nations are among the most influential in the UN.

[Iyndolen]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

People in countries which can't flaunt the UN with impunity (eg, permanent members of the Security Council) actually have a higher opinion of the UN.

And you ignored the mention of successful programmes. Perhaps to you, the success of a country or organization consists entirely in being able to enforce its will on others ?

Are you joking honestly? the United state (a permanent member of the security council) is constantly flaunting the fact that they are above the decisions of the UN doubly so because as a member of the SC they can ensure that the UN will never be able to sanction them for anything. When you job is providing security and enforcing laws and you fail at it, yeah I consider that a unsuccessful system as for the other programs well I don't even thing of them as UN programs nor am I certain that WHO is even part of the UN.

[Coffin-Breathe]

fact 1, 4 isreali soldiers "shot dead"
that means the "Aid workers" had guns

fact 2, Floatilla announces it's intention to run the blockade
fact 3, Failure of cooperation with isreali inspection teams.
fact 4, after being beaten, clubbed and stabbed, they were finally order to "Defend themselves" resulting in 9 casualities

This thread should read "Aid workers attack Isreali soldiers"

Correction :

fact 1, not clear who shot, and the Aid workers didn´t have guns; they got access to them through taking them from the soldiers (how could they kill someone with the "paintballs", btw ?)
fact 2, the blocade is illegal under international laws
fact 3, cooperation was denied, as Israelites have no rights or authority in international seas to demand "inspection"
fact 4, might be correct, but not an adaeqaute solution, and unjustified as the boarding was illegal and at night; number of casualties : 29 civilians dead or seriously injured

[Dododecapod]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

People in countries which can't flaunt the UN with impunity (eg, permanent members of the Security Council) actually have a higher opinion of the UN.

And you ignored the mention of successful programmes. Perhaps to you, the success of a country or organization consists entirely in being able to enforce its will on others ?

Are you joking honestly? the United state (a permanent member of the security council) is constantly flaunting the fact that they are above the decisions of the UN doubly so because as a member of the SC they can ensure that the UN will never be able to sanction them for anything. When you job is providing security and enforcing laws and you fail at it, yeah I consider that a unsuccessful system as for the other programs well I don't even thing of them as UN programs nor am I certain that WHO is even part of the UN.

The WHO is indeed under UN auspices, though the program itself predates the UN by several years, and is close to autonomous.

[Chumblywumbly]

...nor am I certain that WHO is even part of the UN.

Put your mind at rest.

Here is a list of other broadly groovy UN organisations, and another pretty damn important one.

[Yootopia]

I haven't seen anyone bring up the point about the Blockade (I did skim the thread before I posted).

Yeah the blockade can only legally extend up to 24nm.

That's interesting...especially considering that many nations extend a 200 KM fishing control zone from their coasts. Where does the 24 Nautical Mile limit come from?

You're only allowed to impose your own laws on stuff other than "don't steal our fish or drill for oil or whatever" within the Territorial Waters (first 12nm) and Contigious Zone (second 12nm out). The EEZ which goes up to 200nm from the coast has basically two functions - economic stuff, and allowing hot pursuit on people who've broken the law.

Basically if this aid convoy was in the first 24nm out from the coast and the Israelis turned it away for customs offences and it tried to come back in or whatever, they'd be within their rights to shoot it up. Seeing as the Israelis boarded a vessel in their EEZ for supposed offenses which weren't yet illegal, this is a Controversial Decision.

[Gauthier]

Does anyone know why the US so strongly supports Israel? It's not the Jewish lobby. It's the fundamentalist christian, end of the world will start in the middle east lobby. Fundamentalist Christians in the US are adamant that if the middle east explodes with nuclear war and holocaust, it is a good thing because then the Christian savior will come and take over planet earth. American christians actually believe this crap.
Have you heard about the American group that was caught plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock just so they could ignite a world wide war? It was back in 1999, around the 2000 New Year's holiday. The Mossad caught them.

The fist part of this is untrue. The second part may be true but, I can't find anything about it on da google.

Christian Zionists. They do hope that Israel goes up in a shitstorm so that the explosions and burning carcasses send a Bat Signal to Jesus to start the Second Coming early.

[The Corparation]

fact 1, 4 isreali soldiers "shot dead"
that means the "Aid workers" had guns

fact 2, Floatilla announces it's intention to run the blockade
fact 3, Failure of cooperation with isreali inspection teams.
fact 4, after being beaten, clubbed and stabbed, they were finally order to "Defend themselves" resulting in 9 casualities

This thread should read "Aid workers attack Isreali soldiers"

Correction :

fact 1, not clear who shot, and the Aid workers didn´t have guns; they got access to them through taking them from the soldiers (how could they kill someone with the "paintballs", btw ?)
fact 2, the blocade is illegal under international laws
fact 3, cooperation was denied, as Israelites have no rights or authority in international seas to demand "inspection"
fact 4, might be correct, but not an adaeqaute solution, and unjustified as the boarding was illegal and at night; number of casualties : 29 civilians dead or seriously injured

1) The isrealis had paintballs and a pistol, the pistol was only to be used if they were about to be killed
2)Thats debatable
3)They do have the right to inspect cargo entering their waters as the Fleet intended to
4)True


Also anyone see the videos. The "Aid workers" attacked first.

[Coffin-Breathe]

I don't recognize the UN as a legitimate authority on anything. It has proven itself to have an Anti-Israel bias for quite some time now.

The "Anti-Israel bias" is because the majority of countries find fault with Israel. You do know that UN resolutions are on the basis of one-country-one-vote, right?

Well, the UN seems to be biased against Myanmar and Northern Corea too, I wonder why...

[Galloism]

I haven't seen anyone bring up the point about the Blockade (I did skim the thread before I posted).

Yeah the blockade can only legally extend up to 24nm.

That's interesting...especially considering that many nations extend a 200 KM fishing control zone from their coasts. Where does the 24 Nautical Mile limit come from?

You're only allowed to impose your own laws on stuff other than "don't steal our fish or drill for oil or whatever" within the Territorial Waters (first 12nm) and Contigious Zone (second 12nm out). The EEZ which goes up to 200nm from the coast has basically two functions - economic stuff, and allowing hot pursuit on people who've broken the law.

Basically if this aid convoy was in the first 24nm out from the coast and the Israelis turned it away for customs offences and it tried to come back in or whatever, they'd be within their rights to shoot it up. Seeing as the Israelis boarded a vessel in their EEZ for supposed offenses which weren't yet illegal, this is a Controversial Decision.

Interesting, because the ADIZ for air vehicles for the US stretches out a lot further than 24nm.

This is a shitty map, but...

[Yootopia]

Interesting, because the ADIZ for air vehicles for the US stretches out a lot further than 24nm.

I believe that for aerial vehicles the 'coastal nation' gets to pick how far out they start checking, although the 'maximum range' so to speak remains 200nm.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Does anyone know why the US so strongly supports Israel? It's not the Jewish lobby. It's the fundamentalist christian, end of the world will start in the middle east lobby. Fundamentalist Christians in the US are adamant that if the middle east explodes with nuclear war and holocaust, it is a good thing because then the Christian savior will come and take over planet earth. American christians actually believe this crap.
Have you heard about the American group that was caught plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock just so they could ignite a world wide war? It was back in 1999, around the 2000 New Year's holiday. The Mossad caught them.

The fist part of this is untrue. The second part may be true but, I can't find anything about it on da google.

here is something:
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/March_2000/0003016.html but I don't think it says anything about the Mossad.

[Galloism]

Interesting, because the ADIZ for air vehicles for the US stretches out a lot further than 24nm.

I believe that for aerial vehicles the 'coastal nation' gets to pick how far out they start checking, although the 'maximum range' so to speak remains 200nm.

Aha.

See, I'm not familiar with naval rules, only air rules.

I uh... guess I have nothing else to say.

[Iyndolen]

I haven't seen anyone bring up the point about the Blockade (I did skim the thread before I posted).

Yeah the blockade can only legally extend up to 24nm.

That's interesting...especially considering that many nations extend a 200 KM fishing control zone from their coasts. Where does the 24 Nautical Mile limit come from?

You're only allowed to impose your own laws on stuff other than "don't steal our fish or drill for oil or whatever" within the Territorial Waters (first 12nm) and Contigious Zone (second 12nm out). The EEZ which goes up to 200nm from the coast has basically two functions - economic stuff, and allowing hot pursuit on people who've broken the law.

Basically if this aid convoy was in the first 24nm out from the coast and the Israelis turned it away for customs offences and it tried to come back in or whatever, they'd be within their rights to shoot it up. Seeing as the Israelis boarded a vessel in their EEZ for supposed offenses which weren't yet illegal, this is a Controversial Decision.

Unless they extended their territorial waters like the United states or Russian have (150 or 200 miles I believe) or claim a nautical mile around military ships (as the united states and Russia have also done at times) as being official territorial waters of their country.

[The Corparation]

Does anyone know why the US so strongly supports Israel? It's not the Jewish lobby. It's the fundamentalist christian, end of the world will start in the middle east lobby. Fundamentalist Christians in the US are adamant that if the middle east explodes with nuclear war and holocaust, it is a good thing because then the Christian savior will come and take over planet earth. American christians actually believe this crap.
Have you heard about the American group that was caught plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock just so they could ignite a world wide war? It was back in 1999, around the 2000 New Year's holiday. The Mossad caught them.

The fist part of this is untrue. The second part may be true but, I can't find anything about it on da google.

here is something:
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/March_2000/0003016.html but I don't think it says anything about the Mossad.

I didn't see any american groups. Closest I saw was groups funded by americans.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Also I wouldn't put creating a lethal lawnchair past the Palestinians.

The knife in the video was fused with another smaller knife on its right side. Oh and if you don't believe a kanjar is lethal than by all means feel free to buy one and stab yourself in the chest with it. Hell if I thought you'd actually test the kanjars lethality out I'd buy you a kanjar myself.

I´ve to be cautious from now on, as my kitchen is full of deadly advanced weapons of mass-destruction, such as a potatoe-peeler, some kitchen-forks, and the most deadly of all, a big ladle; not to mention all of my books, I heard, some people died from papercuts in their throats, and a thrown CD is a deadly cutting weapon when thrown...I even heard of some person who was strangled by the use of a shirt, maybe I should go naked too !

[Yootopia]

Unless they extended their territorial waters like the United states or Russian have

No, both the USA and Russia consider the area within 12nm of their country to be under their full jurisdiction, ie their actual territorial waters. People might include the EEZ in the 'territorial waters' of a state, but they're wrong to do so.

Here's a cliff's notes version.

or claim a nautical mile around military ships (as the united states and Russia have also done at times) as being official territorial waters of their country.

That would be legally dubious.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Does anyone know why the US so strongly supports Israel? It's not the Jewish lobby. It's the fundamentalist christian, end of the world will start in the middle east lobby. Fundamentalist Christians in the US are adamant that if the middle east explodes with nuclear war and holocaust, it is a good thing because then the Christian savior will come and take over planet earth. American christians actually believe this crap.
Have you heard about the American group that was caught plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock just so they could ignite a world wide war? It was back in 1999, around the 2000 New Year's holiday. The Mossad caught them.

The fist part of this is untrue. The second part may be true but, I can't find anything about it on da google.

here is something:
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/March_2000/0003016.html but I don't think it says anything about the Mossad.

I didn't see any american groups. Closest I saw was groups funded by americans.

from near the bottom

Yet, because they believe Christ can only land in a “safe” area near Jerusalem, they make a cult of the land. They thus give total, unquestioned support to Israel.
They push Armageddon along, saying they, as “Born-Again Christians,” will be spared any suffering, because they will be “Raptured,” wafted up to heaven to view the slaughter below. “I’m not worried,” Lynchburg, Virginia televangelist Jerry Falwell shouts. “You know why? I ain’t gonna be here!”
This dispensationalist doctrine, less than 200 years old, pervades Assemblies of God, Pentecostal and other charismatic churches, as well as the 16 million-member Southern Baptist Convention and countless so-called Bible churches and mega-churches. It’s estimated that at least one out of every 10 Americans is a devotee of this cult.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Well, it´s half past three am here, and as it seems, this thread is circling around the same stupid things over and over; so no need to stay any longer, good night, NSG