Israel attacks Aid workers (Israel megathred)

[Coffin-Breathe]

Man, I'm sure glad I'm not a Marxist pig in India. That's worse than being a Zionist pirate.

Well you see, if the Zionist pirates only pray on Palestinian supporters, it's all good, because they're not important.

Palestinians are mostly children. So we should send them toys as well as food and medical supplies.

Particularly toy guns. We should send lots of those, to keep the kiddies from playing with real ones. That way, the Defence forces can shoot them without getting hurt.

I´d say, that giving kids proper nutrition, clean water, a home that isn´t bombed or a tent, good education and the liberty to go wherever it wants if a little bit more grown up without danger of being shot will usually lead to them loosing their interst in playing with guns...

[Nobel Hobos]

fact 1, 4 isreali soldiers "shot dead"
that means the "Aid workers" had guns"

I've yet to see actual accounts of this happening.

And btw, the Gaza blockade is illegal.

I'm not shocked that the UN would say that
I am shocked as to why I should care
I don't recognize the UN as a legitimate authority on anything. It has proven itself to have an Anti-Israel bias for quite some time now.

The "Anti-Israel bias" is because the majority of countries find fault with Israel. You do know that UN resolutions are on the basis of one-country-one-vote, right?

[Eugene Zolo]

Finally identified the dagger:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanjar
Maybe a jamiya, but I am thinking Khanjar since I found a picture practically identical to it.

Looks like a symbolic weapon. Congratulations, you identified a pocket knife, a butcher knife, a steak knife, and a symbolic dagger.

Maybe they tie them to lawnchairs and throw them at people?

Maybe it is the kanjar though the wiki article just shows a knife in its scabbard and the knife in the video doesn't look like something that would fit into the scabbard in the picture.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/prit ... njar3b.jpg

However, I'm fairly certain you could easily kill someone with that dagger.

Like with a lethal lawnchair?

If the lawn chair is lethal than yes. Definition of lethal (merriam webster):

1 a : of, relating to, or causing death <death by lethal injection> b : capable of causing death
2 : gravely damaging or destructive

Also I wouldn't put creating a lethal lawnchair past the Palestinians.

The knife in the video was fused with another smaller knife on its right side. Oh and if you don't believe a kanjar is lethal than by all means feel free to buy one and stab yourself in the chest with it. Hell if I thought you'd actually test the kanjars lethality out I'd buy you a kanjar myself.

[Iyndolen]

fact 1, 4 isreali soldiers "shot dead"
that means the "Aid workers" had guns"

I've yet to see actual accounts of this happening.

And btw, the Gaza blockade is illegal.

I'm not shocked that the UN would say that
I am shocked as to why I should care
I don't recognize the UN as a legitimate authority on anything. It has proven itself to have an Anti-Israel bias for quite some time now.

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

[Dododecapod]

fact 1, 4 isreali soldiers "shot dead"
that means the "Aid workers" had guns

fact 2, Floatilla announces it's intention to run the blockade
fact 3, Failure of cooperation with isreali inspection teams.
fact 4, after being beaten, clubbed and stabbed, they were finally order to "Defend themselves" resulting in 9 casualities

This thread should read "Aid workers attack Isreali soldiers"

1. [citation needed]
2. Intent =/= action
3. The Israeli forces have no authority in international waters thus the fleet was not under any obligation to cooperate
4. After the ship was illegally boarded, the people on it defended themselves against the hostile force, resulting in them being shot at.

The thread reads exactly as it should.

The ship had entered an announced and demarcated security zone, or in other words, a Blockade. These are legal and override the regular international waters conventions, allowing search of and if necessary seizure of ships and personnel. They are also a casus belli for the country so blockaded, but HAMAS is already at war with Israel.

[Yootopia]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

[Juristonia]

The ship had entered an announced and demarcated security zone, or in other words, a Blockade. These are legal and override the regular international waters conventions, allowing search of and if necessary seizure of ships and personnel. They are also a casus belli for the country so blockaded, but HAMAS is already at war with Israel.

I suggest you read the past however many pages this thread has by now since that part has already been gone over several times.
The Israeli force had no legal ground to set foot on those ships.

[Iyndolen]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country can subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

[Nobel Hobos]

Man, I'm sure glad I'm not a Marxist pig in India. That's worse than being a Zionist pirate.

Well you see, if the Zionist pirates only pray on Palestinian supporters, it's all good, because they're not important.

Palestinians are mostly children. So we should send them toys as well as food and medical supplies.

Particularly toy guns. We should send lots of those, to keep the kiddies from playing with real ones. That way, the Defence forces can shoot them without getting hurt.

I´d say, that giving kids proper nutrition, clean water, a home that isn´t bombed or a tent, good education and the liberty to go wherever it wants if a little bit more grown up without danger of being shot will usually lead to them loosing their interst in playing with guns...

I'd do those things, but the batteries are out in my Liberal Fairy Wand.

Seriously, it's the lack of "liberty to go wherever" which really poisons a child's hopes. Gaza is one of the most crowded places on earth. Surrounded by Israel and the sea controlled by Israel, where can they go even if they wanted to?

[Vonners]

Oh great, another "If it's not blindly following it's clearly biased against" one.

its that constancy thing again.

On a more serious note -

I can't help but wonder if there was some almighty cock up somewhere in the chain of command. From what I understand the unit that did the boarding was Shayetet 13...an elite naval unit. Equiv to US Seal Team 6 or some such.

The reason I wonder this is that there is absolutely nothing to gain for Bibi...politically or otherwise. All this does is strengthen the hand of Hamas.

Had they performed these actions within the territorial waters or at least within the exclusion or blockage line the Israeli gov would have had a slightly stronger hand.

Very odd for Israel to make such a mistake. Then again they made a mistake in '06 as well.

Maybe the IDF et al are losing their grip on things?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

And yet you provide no legit examples or sources. You're very convincing.

[Yootopia]

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

OK at which point you can look at the US' hilarious attempts to get the North Koreans to disarm and go "wow the US is such a shit country which is ineffective as regards foreign policy", which is actually untrue.

The main point of the UN is really as an umbrella organisation which allows closer collaboration between arms such as UNICEF and the WHO. It isn't to be any one country's international enforcer.

[The Corparation]

What does Isreal have to gain by attacking Aid workers? nothing. What do the Aid workersgain from being attacked? Everything

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Does anyone know why the US so strongly supports Israel? It's not the Jewish lobby. It's the fundamentalist christian, end of the world will start in the middle east lobby. Fundamentalist Christians in the US are adamant that if the middle east explodes with nuclear war and holocaust, it is a good thing because then the Christian savior will come and take over planet earth. American christians actually believe this crap.
Have you heard about the American group that was caught plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock just so they could ignite a world wide war? It was back in 1999, around the 2000 New Year's holiday. The Mossad caught them.

[The Celestial Union]

Might as well annex Mexico now then.

That's one way to solve the illegal immigration problem

As or the boarding incident. I couldn't find a link to the latest NPR story but during the 5-5:30 pm EDT portion of the program a reporter in Ashdod did mention some military analysts were puzzled at the choice of Israeli naval commandos. since they are not trained or esperienced in dealing with protestors etc. Did post the story I was able to find a link for. Lot of questiosn about what this , hoping mroe facts will emerge.

[Juristonia]

What does Isreal have to gain by attacking Aid workers? nothing. What do the Aid workersgain from being attacked? Everything

I'm sure the 9 dead are absolutely delighted right now.

[Yootopia]

American christians actually believe this crap.

What, all of them? Really?

[Dododecapod]

The ship had entered an announced and demarcated security zone, or in other words, a Blockade. These are legal and override the regular international waters conventions, allowing search of and if necessary seizure of ships and personnel. They are also a casus belli for the country so blockaded, but HAMAS is already at war with Israel.

I suggest you read the past however many pages this thread has by now since that part has already been gone over several times.
The Israeli force had no legal ground to set foot on those ships.

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone bring up the point about the Blockade (I did skim the thread before I posted). Lots of people have said "International Waters", but that doesn't apply to a declared blockade.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Well, I wonder why people oppose this but didn't oppose the blockade on "Great Germany".

First, most of the people in here are not even old enough to oppose their teachers, not to speak of Nazi-Germany about seventy years ago; and second, did the Palestines declare war to half of the world, occupy almost whole Europe and kill a few millions of Jews in the holocaust ? On the contrary, they are the ones living in a kind of holocaust today...

[Vonners]

What does Isreal have to gain by attacking Aid workers? nothing. What do the Aid workersgain from being attacked? Everything

Interesting. I never said attacked. I am assuming you are commenting on my post...

[Nobel Hobos]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

People in countries which can't flaunt the UN with impunity (eg, permanent members of the Security Council) actually have a higher opinion of the UN.

And you ignored the mention of successful programmes. Perhaps to you, the success of a country or organization consists entirely in being able to enforce its will on others ?

[Yootopia]

I haven't seen anyone bring up the point about the Blockade (I did skim the thread before I posted).

Yeah the blockade can only legally extend up to 24nm.

[The Corparation]

Does anyone know why the US so strongly supports Israel? It's not the Jewish lobby. It's the fundamentalist christian, end of the world will start in the middle east lobby. Fundamentalist Christians in the US are adamant that if the middle east explodes with nuclear war and holocaust, it is a good thing because then the Christian savior will come and take over planet earth. American christians actually believe this crap.
Have you heard about the American group that was caught plotting to blow up the Dome of the Rock just so they could ignite a world wide war? It was back in 1999, around the 2000 New Year's holiday. The Mossad caught them.

The fist part of this is untrue. The second part may be true but, I can't find anything about it on da google.

[Iyndolen]

Who does consider the UN a legitimate authority on ANYTHING?

Because it takes many, many countries' diplomats' opinions into consideration when it acts, and some of the programmes related to the UN, such as the WHO, have been incredibly successful.

Which any country and subsequently ignore so long as they can make themselves enough of a bother, the UN is a joke, a worthless, useless joke. One that has long since ran it's course.

And yet you provide no legit examples or sources. You're very convincing.

How about the fact that nations like the United states and Russia routinely opt out of Un resolutions? such as the resolutions banning the use of incendiary weapons, or the one banning the use of mines both countries refused to ratified them and thus do not abide by them.

[The Corparation]

What does Isreal have to gain by attacking Aid workers? nothing. What do the Aid workersgain from being attacked? Everything

Interesting. I never said attacked. I am assuming you are commenting on my post...

Wasn't comenting on your post, just posting an observation about the attacks.