National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

[Parthenon]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you talk to others about your sexual attractions to people? If you're in a relationship, do you ever mention this, or display it?

I do not discuss sexual attractions at the work place nor should anyone else for that matter.

[Phenia]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you hide it? Do you refrain from ever showing it, say by so much as flirting with women you might encounter? Should you be punished for letting anyone know?

Would I die if I never told this to someone? No.

Irrelevant nonsense. No one is saying homosexuals WILL DIE if they can't tell anyone. Get back to reality if you can.

Sexual Orientation shouldn't be something to be flaunted by people regardless of what side of the rainbow they fall on.

That's nice that you think it shouldn't be "flaunted" (I like how you're turning this into a matter of "flaunting" suddenly) but you said that sexual orientation simply "has no place in the military" as if it were a matter of fact. It isn't. Not even close.

[Dyakovo]

So does this mean I can get a free education, courtesy of the military, then, think REALLY hard about porn during the physical and get kicked out of the army? Or just suddenly, during the swearing in, start screaming "IM GAY! YES, I AM GAY! GAY GAY GAY! I AM SO HOMOSEXUAL THAT THE VERY SIGHT OF WOMEN MAKES ME BREAK OUT IN HIVES. SAY THERE, OFFICER, WHAT'CHOO DOIN' TONIGHT? WANNA COME TO MY HOUSE AND HAVE A GAY ORGY? THERE'S A GOAT SACRIFICE AFTERWARD AND THEN WE DRINK THE BLOOD OF CHRISTIAN BABIES."

Military funded university tuition is granted by means of a contract. If you breach this contract you are responsible for paying back the tuition in full under threat of litigation.

I guess it would depend on the contract, then.

Which, in this case, is the contract you sign when you join, if you get kicked out you are considered to have broken the contract and would have to pay the money back.

[Parthenon]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you hide it? Do you refrain from ever showing it, say by so much as flirting with women you might encounter? Should you be punished for letting anyone know?

If I am on the clock, which a service member is on 24/7 for the course of their enlistment/commission, I am not going to be flirting with anyone and I would deserve to be punished for doing such on company time.

[Maurepas]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you talk to others about your sexual attractions to people? If you're in a relationship, do you ever mention this, or display it?

I do not discuss sexual attractions at the work place nor should anyone else for that matter.

What about in your off time? Soldiers have this too you know, alot of the time, it is spent on base...

[The South Islands]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you hide it? Do you refrain from ever showing it, say by so much as flirting with women you might encounter? Should you be punished for letting anyone know?

If I am on the clock, which a service member is on 24/7 for the course of their enlistment/commission, I am not going to be flirting with anyone and I would deserve to be punished for doing such on company time.

And thats what the UCMJ is for, punishing servicemembers for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Being homosexual, in and of itself, is not unprofessional.

[Maurepas]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you hide it? Do you refrain from ever showing it, say by so much as flirting with women you might encounter? Should you be punished for letting anyone know?

If I am on the clock, which a service member is on 24/7 for the course of their enlistment/commission, I am not going to be flirting with anyone and I would deserve to be punished for doing such on company time.

What if you were in a relationship already? Can you not show your face with your Significant Other at all?

[Enadail]

You both are simply taking my answers to an extreme that does not share my stated opinion on the matter, in order to justify your own point. I simply stated that the DADT laws should be extended to reduce any sexual talks in the military. Rather than have it repelled and start a host of problems as more people come out.

Would you rather have gay-related beatings in the military, or would you rather have the entire question of sexual beliefs taken out of the picture? It has nothing to do about religion or bonding, which is where the both of you are taking it in order to justify your opinions; it only has to do with sex.

Yes, I took it to an extreme because your point was sexuality is a private thing that should be kept personal. So is, for example, if a parent is dead. But I doubt you'd want to outlaw that. When a person has to feel like they have to hide something in fear of losing their job, they're much more likely to be nervous, cautious, and less attentive. All that in a live fire situation leads to more deaths.

Like Maurepas said, I'd rather the beats and the bigots be dishonorable discharged then have to keep something in and be looking over their shoulder every time they say something.

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No. Would I die if I never told this to someone? No. Sexual Orientation shouldn't be something to be flaunted by people regardless of what side of the rainbow they fall on.

Where is the flaunting? I don't remember anything about this or any other gay military member flaunting anything. Admitting and flaunting are two VERY different things.

Do you ever hold hands with your significant other in public? Stand close to her? Have a conversation in public with a friend about her? None of these are flaunting, but if a member of the military who's gay did it and another member of the military heard and reported it, they'd be discharged, be it while active, inactive, on leave.

[Parthenon]

What about in your off time? Soldiers have this too you know, alot of the time, it is spent on base...

There is no "off time" in the military. Our enemies can strike at any moment and one must be ready and able to deal with this.

[Phenia]

I am a straight male. Do I walk around the city telling every person I meet this? No.

Do you hide it? Do you refrain from ever showing it, say by so much as flirting with women you might encounter? Should you be punished for letting anyone know?

If I am on the clock, which a service member is on 24/7 for the course of their enlistment/commission, I am not going to be flirting with anyone and I would deserve to be punished for doing such on company time.

That didn't answer the first, second, or third questions. Coy evasion, not very impressive. Flirting with anyone was merely one way you might ever show your sexuality. You might simply, you know, mention it. Should you get fired for doing that?

[Parthenon]

And thats what the UCMJ is for, punishing servicemembers for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Being homosexual, in and of itself, is not unprofessional.

No one is saying it is. The policy merely states being open about your homosexuality is a violation.

[Maurepas]

What about in your off time? Soldiers have this too you know, alot of the time, it is spent on base...

There is no "off time" in the military. Our enemies can strike at any moment and one must be ready and able to deal with this.

There is still On duty and Off Duty, especially in the National Guard, when youre not doing your "One weekend a Month" are you not allowed to see or discuss your significant other?

[Rolling Dead]

I think Obama's response has been typical and understandable, but intolerable. This is not a small side issue that can wait for another day. This is affecting national security.

Exactly, and I really dont get it, He is the Commander-In-Chief it is His Military, why he doesnt just sign an executive order ending it all, is beyond me...

Of course, then we'd be left with all those openly gay translators, probably changing words so they make everything sound gay...

haha.

I feel the policy should be changed.

Hispanics shouldn't be allowed to tell others they are hispanic. Just tanned white people.

[Maurepas]

And thats what the UCMJ is for, punishing servicemembers for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Being homosexual, in and of itself, is not unprofessional.

No one is saying it is. The policy merely states being open about your homosexuality is a violation.

Yet being open about your Heterosexuality is not, Im smelling Double Standard here...

[Enadail]

There is no "off time" in the military. Our enemies can strike at any moment and one must be ready and able to deal with this.

Sorry, now you're just pulling words outta nowhere. Just because you can be called to active duty at any time doesn't mean there's no off time.

Besides, at the end of the day, heterosexuals get to express their relationships in the army while homosexuals don't. So until both get the same rights, the law is unjust, and people should be reminded of it.

[Phenia]

What about in your off time? Soldiers have this too you know, alot of the time, it is spent on base...

There is no "off time" in the military. Our enemies can strike at any moment and one must be ready and able to deal with this.

And I take it if the world knew our nation's shameful secret - that members of the military are actually human beings instead of genderless mutant freaks - well that would just be the end of us!

[The South Islands]

And thats what the UCMJ is for, punishing servicemembers for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Being homosexual, in and of itself, is not unprofessional.

No one is saying it is. The policy merely states being open about your homosexuality is a violation.

What defines open, though? Slapping ass in the shower is surely unprofessional conduct, but is being seen on a gay dating website (for example) unprofessional conduct?

In a civilian court, you would be very hard pressed to prove that.

[Parthenon]

What about in your off time? Soldiers have this too you know, alot of the time, it is spent on base...

There is no "off time" in the military. Our enemies can strike at any moment and one must be ready and able to deal with this.

There is still On duty and Off Duty, especially in the National Guard, when youre not doing your "One weekend a Month" are you not allowed to see or discuss your significant other?

If you are getting payed by the military you better as hell be willing to follow the policies that are in place. I don't show up at work and say "I don't like this whole no personal phone calls on company time policy, I am going to ignore it" while still expecting a paycheck. It just doesn't work like that. When you sign the service contract you better as hell be willing to conform to the expectations or not expect to keep the job. It is that simple.

[The South Islands]

There is no "off time" in the military. Our enemies can strike at any moment and one must be ready and able to deal with this.

There is still On duty and Off Duty, especially in the National Guard, when youre not doing your "One weekend a Month" are you not allowed to see or discuss your significant other?

If you are getting payed by the military you better as hell be willing to follow the policies that are in place. I don't show up at work and say "I don't like this whole no personal phone calls on company time policy, I am going to ignore it" while still expecting a paycheck. It just doesn't work like that. When you sign the service contract you better as hell be willing to conform to the expectations or not expect to keep the job. It is that simple.

No one here is arguing (I think) that the soldier did not violate policy. The point of contention is with the policy itself.

[Maurepas]

If you are getting payed by the military you better as hell be willing to follow the policies that are in place. I don't show up at work and say "I don't like this whole no personal phone calls on company time policy, I am going to ignore it" while still expecting a paycheck. It just doesn't work like that. When you sign the service contract you better as hell be willing to conform to the expectations or not expect to keep the job. It is that simple.

But no personal phone calls isnt infringing on your civil rights, Not being able to see your Spouse or Significant Other or even discuss them in public, is certainly on another level than personal phonecalls...

[Dyakovo]

Do you hide it? Do you refrain from ever showing it, say by so much as flirting with women you might encounter? Should you be punished for letting anyone know?

If I am on the clock, which a service member is on 24/7 for the course of their enlistment/commission, I am not going to be flirting with anyone and I would deserve to be punished for doing such on company time.

And thats what the UCMJ is for, punishing servicemembers for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Being homosexual, in and of itself, is not unprofessional.

Actually, according to the current rules, yes it is.

[Enadail]

What defines open, though? Slapping ass in the shower is surely unprofessional conduct, but is being seen on a gay dating website (for example) unprofessional conduct?

In a civilian court, you would be very hard pressed to prove that.

As a civilian court doesn't matter in the military, if a member of the military ever admits to being homosexual, they are summarily discharged. Apparently being gay makes you unfit to be in the military, even if you have highly valuable skills like being an Arabic translator. But of course, if you never admit it, they'll never know! This sounds an awful lot like someone hiding that they committed a crime... as long as Big Bother doesn't know, they can't arrest ya!

[Dyakovo]

What about in your off time? Soldiers have this too you know, alot of the time, it is spent on base...

There is no "off time" in the military.

Umm, yeah, there most certainly is.

[The South Islands]

If I am on the clock, which a service member is on 24/7 for the course of their enlistment/commission, I am not going to be flirting with anyone and I would deserve to be punished for doing such on company time.

And thats what the UCMJ is for, punishing servicemembers for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Being homosexual, in and of itself, is not unprofessional.

Actually, according to the current rules, yes it is.

Thats the point. It's absurd.

[Maurepas]

Actually, according to the current rules, yes it is.

But, according to Reality, it is not...

Thats the problem, the Rules dont sync with it...