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National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

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Tosler
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National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Tosler » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:01 pm

(CNN) -- A panel of New York National Guard officers has recommended that an Iraq war veteran who acknowledged his homosexuality must leave the service, his supporters said Tuesday.

First Lt. Dan Choi disclosed in March that he is gay, challenging the 1994 "don't ask, don't tell" law that requires the military to discharge troops who disclose their sexual orientation. Tuesday's ruling, made after a daylong hearing, is a step toward stripping Choi of his officer's commission and ending his career.

"It's disappointing, but not unexpected," said Sue Fulton, a spokeswoman for Knights Out, a group of gay and lesbian West Point alumni Choi helped found.

Fulton said the Guard's Federal Recognition Board heard from members of Choi's unit, his commanding officer and fellow soldiers who served in Iraq, and reviewed more than 150 letters of support for Choi, a 2003 West Point graduate and an Arab linguist.

"At the end of the day, they did not consider any of that material [to] whether he was a good soldier," she said. "It was solely about whether he said he was gay."

The closed-door hearing began Tuesday morning before the board, which certifies that Guard officers meet the standards of the regular Army. Its decision came after several hours of deliberation Tuesday afternoon.

The hearing is considered a confidential personnel matter, and the service won't comment on the results, said Lt. Col. Paul Fanning, a National Guard spokesman.

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The board's recommendation must be approved by the commander of the U.S. 1st Army, which oversees the National Guard and Army Reserve. But Choi's public declaration is "a finding of fact that the board has to deal with," Fanning said.

"The Army has no choice but to follow through with that," he said.

More than 12,500 gays have been forced to leave the military since "don't ask, don't tell" went into effect -- including dozens of Arabic speakers, people highly valued by the military since the invasion of Iraq.

Choi transferred from the active-duty Army to the National Guard in June 2008, Fanning said. He served as an infantry platoon leader in Iraq in 2006 and 2007 and, like many soldiers, had his yearlong tour of duty extended by three months.

Choi served as celebrity grand marshal of the San Francisco, California, Gay Pride Parade over the weekend. He told CNN's "American Morning" on Monday that he is acting on "the lessons that I learned at West Point -- honesty and courage and integrity."

"It's an informed decision," he said. "But more important than the consequences, more important than punishments or those fears that we might have, we take courage and we take those things very seriously of the values that we were taught. And it's more important that we be honest with ourselves, we have integrity, and we have courage."

President Obama campaigned on a pledge to repeal "don't ask, don't tell" and has been criticized for not moving faster on that goal since taking office in January. He told gay-rights advocates at a Monday night reception at the White House that his administration is already working with House and Senate members to get the law changed.

"It's not for me to tell you to be patient any more than it was for others to counsel patience to African-Americans who were petitioning for equal rights a half-century ago," Obama said. But he added, "I do have a responsibility to see that this change is administered in a practical -- and a way that takes over the long term."

Fulton said that while Obama can't change the law himself, he could sign an executive order halting discharges while the policy is under review.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

It is a sad reality that in a country such as America, we have overcome equality issues involving African Americans, other races, and women (though there is much more work to be done), we have yet to learn that every individual should be equal regardless of their race, religion, beliefs, gender, and sexual orientation. We find laws of America still discriminating against minorities, such as homo-sexuals. Homo-sexuals deserve the same rights as any other citizen. They are undoubtedley people no greater, no less than an other person.

I am glad that President Obama is taking a pregmatic approach to this situation. He is a man who understands everything can't happen over night. He believes in equality, and will insure that this law is repealed. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is a major injustice to this day, and undoubtedley needs to be changed.

What do you think?

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Barzan
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Barzan » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:05 pm

Wait a minute...you mean the people who wanted to get out of Iraq could have gotten out if they only would have said they were gay? Why didn't more people do that years ago?!
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:10 pm

Barzan wrote:Wait a minute...you mean the people who wanted to get out of Iraq could have gotten out if they only would have said they were gay? Why didn't more people do that years ago?!

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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:47 pm

Obviously this man is unfit for service. He must have used his vile homosexual magic to trick his way to the rank of first lieutenant. :palm:

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Triniteras
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Triniteras » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:51 pm

The position of the New York National Guard does not ultimately matter.

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Scarsaw
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Scarsaw » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Situations like this makes me glad I live in Canada.
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Ryadn
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Ryadn » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:54 pm

I think Obama's response has been typical and understandable, but intolerable. This is not a small side issue that can wait for another day. This is affecting national security.
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Ryadn » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:56 pm

Ifreann wrote:Obviously this man is unfit for service. He must have used his vile homosexual magic to trick his way to the rank of first lieutenant. :palm:


And then committed strings of rapes. You know, that's the biggest problem in the military today--harassment of straight men by gay men. It's out of control.
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Constans
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Constans » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:00 pm

Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Dyakovo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:06 pm

Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay?

Agreed, however if no-one challenges the law the chances of it changing are very slim.
Constans wrote:Its debatable if the law is fair or not,

It isn't
Constans wrote:but for the time being it’s the law.

true
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Ryadn » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:06 pm

Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.


Is it really that hard to stop wearing a cross or praying if you're Christian? Is it really that hard to bleach your skin and hair if you're black?
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Scarsaw
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Scarsaw » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:07 pm

Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.


I have a feeling he was trying to challenge the law by coming out, in an efforts to force it to change. Without confrontation or controversial situations, there is no will, drive or need for change.
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Dyakovo
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Dyakovo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:07 pm

Ryadn wrote:
Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.


Is it really that hard to stop wearing a cross or praying if you're Christian?

I would argue that, no it isn't.
Ryadn wrote:Is it really that hard to bleach your skin and hair if you're black?

Not really comparable...
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Dyakovo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:08 pm

Scarsaw wrote:
Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.


I have a feeling he was trying to challenge the law by coming out, in an efforts to force it to change. Without confrontation or controversial situations, there is no will, drive or need for change.

My thoughts as well...

If he wasn't his coming out doesn't really make any sense.
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Buffett and Colbert » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:11 pm

Barzan wrote:Wait a minute...you mean the people who wanted to get out of Iraq could have gotten out if they only would have said they were gay? Why didn't more people do that years ago?!


Moral decency?


Anyways, it makes me INCREDIBLY angry whenever I hear this. If I continue further, I am sure the mods will permaban me. >:( >:( >:(
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:15 pm

Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out.

No, I blame Clinton.
Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay?

Who gives a shit? If you(in general) can't deal with being near a gay man or woman then I suggest you retreat to a cave in the mountains, because gay people aren't going away and its wrong to expect them to hide their existence.
Its debatable if the law is fair or not,

No, its pretty clearly wrong.
but for the time being it’s the law.

And it shouldn't be the law.

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Aurono
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Aurono » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:15 pm

Fred Phelps will be so happy to hear about this.

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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:15 pm

little bit of mis information in the article.
They say 12,500 have been kicked out because don't ask don't tell was implemented.
they leave out the prior policy was significantly more harsh and easier to get you kicked out.
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Constans
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Constans » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:17 pm

Ryadn wrote:
Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.


Is it really that hard to stop wearing a cross or praying if you're Christian? Is it really that hard to bleach your skin and hair if you're black?


Nice attempt at a flame. Anyways. My point is not that Gay's should not be able to come out, but that while their in the armed forces, to keep quiet about their sexual orientation.

I have a feeling he was trying to challenge the law by coming out, in an efforts to force it to change. Without confrontation or controversial situations, there is no will, drive or need for change.


I can understand if this was his purpose. However, my belief on the matter is that you can do such things after you leave the armed forces. Is there a reason you need to further tarnish the name of the military that you wished to serve by creating ever more recent stunts like these? I think not.
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:20 pm

Constans wrote:I can understand if this was his purpose. However, my belief on the matter is that you can do such things after you leave the armed forces. Is there a reason you need to further tarnish the name of the military that you wished to serve by creating ever more recent stunts like these? I think not.

The military's image is more important than the rights of its members?

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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby L3 Communications » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:21 pm

Constans wrote:
Ryadn wrote:
Constans wrote:Don't blame them for kicking him out. Is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut that you’re gay? Its debatable if the law is fair or not, but for the time being it’s the law.


Is it really that hard to stop wearing a cross or praying if you're Christian? Is it really that hard to bleach your skin and hair if you're black?


Nice attempt at a flame. Anyways. My point is not that Gay's should not be able to come out, but that while their in the armed forces, to keep quiet about their sexual orientation.

I have a feeling he was trying to challenge the law by coming out, in an efforts to force it to change. Without confrontation or controversial situations, there is no will, drive or need for change.


I can understand if this was his purpose. However, my belief on the matter is that you can do such things after you leave the armed forces. Is there a reason you need to further tarnish the name of the military that you wished to serve by creating ever more recent stunts like these? I think not.


Tarnish the name? Since when was being homosexual a bad thing? Since when did any military that had homosexuals serving ever have it's name "tarnished", besides the US Military for it's quite ignorant "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy?
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Constans » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:22 pm

Ifreann wrote:Who gives a shit? If you(in general) can't deal with being near a gay man or woman then I suggest you retreat to a cave in the mountains, because gay people aren't going away and its wrong to expect them to hide their existence.


Point me to where I said that I have a problem with people who choose to be gay? I don't. However, as I explained below, it has no place in the military.

No, its pretty clearly wrong.


In your own opinion, I highly doubt the entire United States agrees that it’s wrong. I personally don't think it is, sexual orientation has no place in any branch of the military. This means for straights as well. You’re in the military to defend our nation, not to announce if your bisexual, straight, homosexual, or lesbian. Don't ask, don’t tell.

And it shouldn't be the law.


Again, debatable.
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Pope Joan » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:23 pm

Barzan wrote:Wait a minute...you mean the people who wanted to get out of Iraq could have gotten out if they only would have said they were gay? Why didn't more people do that years ago?!


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Constans
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby Constans » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:25 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Constans wrote:I can understand if this was his purpose. However, my belief on the matter is that you can do such things after you leave the armed forces. Is there a reason you need to further tarnish the name of the military that you wished to serve by creating ever more recent stunts like these? I think not.

The military's image is more important than the rights of its members?


What rights? To announce if your gay, straight, lesbian, and such forth? Does it really matter? Should I have the right to go up to a random person in the street and announce I went to the bathroom?

I'm all for gay rights, however, it really should not matter while in the military.
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Re: National Guard: Gay Iraq veteran must leave service

Postby The South Islands » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:27 pm

Policy is Policy, law is law.
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So it's a wonder that your presence alone in any thread don't derail them and lead to debates about world leaders and homoerotic desires.


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