Serbia prepares for invasion of Kosovo

[El Lazaro]

One solution. Kosovo is democratic. So in order to end this problem, why does Kosovo not have a referendum in this majority Serb region. The questions can be remain with Kosovo but with more autonomy or join Serbia.

The three northern towns of Leposavić, Zvecan and Zubin Potok which make up the northern part of the district of Mitrovica (there are 7 districts) are majority Serb. They also border Serbia.

Map which shows the three towns - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... nk_map.png

unfortunately the serbophobic albanian ultranationalists will rig it and use it as an excuse to discriminate serbs even more

good, northern kosovo will be the first part to join albania

[The Acolyte Confederacy]

One solution. Kosovo is democratic. So in order to end this problem, why does Kosovo not have a referendum in this majority Serb region. The questions can be remain with Kosovo but with more autonomy or join Serbia.

The three northern towns of Leposavić, Zvecan and Zubin Potok which make up the northern part of the district of Mitrovica (there are 7 districts) are majority Serb. They also border Serbia.

Map which shows the three towns - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... nk_map.png

unfortunately the serbophobic albanian ultranationalists will rig it and use it as an excuse to discriminate serbs even more

sounds like someones a troll

[Hispida]

unfortunately the serbophobic albanian ultranationalists will rig it and use it as an excuse to discriminate serbs even more

sounds like someones a troll

nobody tell them.

[Eternal Algerstonia]

unfortunately the serbophobic albanian ultranationalists will rig it and use it as an excuse to discriminate serbs even more

I mean you could always ask the UN or NATO, or get the Swiss to oversee it.

the leader of the un and nato is a serb, swiss people are serbs, and god is a serb, so i'm down

[Aerlanica]

I mean you could always ask the UN or NATO, or get the Swiss to oversee it.

the leader of the un and nato is a serb, swiss people are serbs, and god is a serb, so i'm down

Wait...so everyone in history was a serb?

[The Acolyte Confederacy]

the leader of the un and nato is a serb, swiss people are serbs, and god is a serb, so i'm down

Wait...so everyone in history was a serb?

my balls are an angry serb

[Sauros]

We must prepare for the deluge of Albania memes that will flood the internet; all will be washed away, no subreddit nor forum will be spared.
Brace yourselves.

[Aerlanica]

Wait...so everyone in history was a serb?

my balls are an angry serb

Wait...hol up. According to the bible everyone was made in god's image...

...which means humanity is Serbian...

...and if humanity is Serbian then the Austrians must have been Serbian...

...therefore, from this we can deduce that Freud and Hitler were Serbian...

therefore the Serbs are responsible for WW1 and WW2 and all the associated atrocities.

Wait this also means Stalin was Serbian so the Serbs made the Eastern Bloc...wait the Serbs were responsible for the Cold War...the Serbs were responsible for the nuclear bomb...

Oh my god...it was all Serbia?

[Querria]

Ukraine has had no control over Crimea since 2014. Do you wish to be consistent?

Ukraine and Kosovo are in two completely different situations right now. Kosovo broke away, Ukraine was invaded.

Ah remember the kremlin justification is that ukraine was never an independent state! It 'broke away' 32 years ago. Kosovo 'broke away'.. 15 years ago. So really, it's not a matter of broke off vs being invaded, because according to the countries ukraine and kosovo broke off from, said countries technically have no right to exist.

So if serbia moves into Kosovo, kosovo will be in the same boat as the Ukraine.

[Gravlen]

But Ukraine is still a legitimate authority.

so... why wasn't serbia?

Because of an agreement by Yugoslav President Slobodan Milošević made based on a proposal by President of Finland Martti Ahtisaari and former Prime Minister of Russia Viktor Chernomyrdin on June 8th,1999, followed by the Kumanovo Agreement on June 9th and UN Security Council Resolution 1244 on June 10th. These agreements included the following deal:

Establishment of an interim administration for Kosovo as a part of the international civil presence under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, to be decided by the Security Council of the United Nations. The interim administration to provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants in Kosovo.

This UN administration (UNMIK) established the Assembly of the Republic of Kosovo in 2001, which later declared independence in 2008 in accordance with international law, followed by the 2013 Brussels deal in which Serbia agreed to abolish all of the Republic of Serbia's institutions in Kosovo.

Hence why Serbia is no longer a legitimate authority in Kosovo.

[Aerlanica]

so... why wasn't serbia?

Because of an agreement by Yugoslav President Slobodan Milošević made based on a proposal by President of Finland Martti Ahtisaari and former Prime Minister of Russia Viktor Chernomyrdin on June 8th,1999, followed by the Kumanovo Agreement on June 9th and UN Security Council Resolution 1244 on June 10th. These agreements included the following deal:

Establishment of an interim administration for Kosovo as a part of the international civil presence under which the people of Kosovo can enjoy substantial autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, to be decided by the Security Council of the United Nations. The interim administration to provide transitional administration while establishing and overseeing the development of provisional democratic self-governing institutions to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants in Kosovo.

This UN administration (UNMIK) established the Assembly of the Republic of Kosovo in 2001, which later declared independence in 2008 in accordance with international law, followed by the 2013 Brussels deal in which Serbia agreed to abolish all of the Republic of Serbia's institutions in Kosovo.

Hence why Serbia is no longer a legitimate authority in Kosovo.

Damn my esteemed individual you explained that 100 times better than I did. Also, did not know that. Probably shoulda done more research :/

Ah well only one way to learn am I right?

[-Astoria-]

[...]

Wait this also means Stalin was Serbian so the Serbs made the Eastern Bloc...wait the Serbs were responsible for the Cold War...the Serbs were responsible for the nuclear bomb...

Oh my god...it was all Serbia?

Always has been.

[Audioslavia]

sounds like someones a troll

If you believe someone to be trolling, report them in moderation. Throwing accusations like that only gets in the way of discussion.

MALLEDIT: Came in off the top rope based on prior history: viewtopic.php?p=40644150#p40644150

[Salamantis]

I smell a Russian effort to "incurse" into NATO territory the same way that "Free Russians" have "incursed" just beyond the Ukrainian border.

It doesn´t point to escalation (yet), but it sure points to a revival of the Pan-Slavic brotherhood of state-sponsored anarchy.

[Northern Seleucia]

NATO troops on guard in north Kosovo for third day amid protests

Kosovo: NATO ready to send more troops after unrest

Kosovo prime minister says he will not surrender country to Serbian ‘fascist militia’ after clashes in north

NATO to Deploy 700 More Troops After Violent Clashes in Kosovo injure 30 Peacekeepers

[Mallorea and Riva]

unfortunately the serbophobic albanian ultranationalists will rig it and use it as an excuse to discriminate serbs even more

sounds like someones a troll

Wait...so everyone in history was a serb?

my balls are an angry serb

I just told you not to trollname, and then you hit us with the one two punch of trollnaming followed by shitposting. Considering your warn history, take a *** Warning for Spam *** and be aware that you're likely to escalate to a ban on the next offense.

[Christian Confederation]

Kosovo needs to be partitioned between Serbia and Albania, it's inevitable why not bite the bullet so to speak and go ahead with it.

[Great Britain eke Northern Ireland]

Kosovo needs to be partitioned between Serbia and Albania, it's inevitable why not bite the bullet so to speak and go ahead with it.

It’s a blatant disregard for Kosovan sovereignty.

[Hurdergaryp]

Wait...hol up. According to the bible everyone was made in god's image...

...which means humanity is Serbian...

...and if humanity is Serbian then the Austrians must have been Serbian...

...therefore, from this we can deduce that Freud and Hitler were Serbian...

therefore the Serbs are responsible for WW1 and WW2 and all the associated atrocities.

Wait this also means Stalin was Serbian so the Serbs made the Eastern Bloc...wait the Serbs were responsible for the Cold War...the Serbs were responsible for the nuclear bomb...

Oh my god...it was all Serbia?

This is why Yugoslavia was actually a good thing: it kept all things Serbian under control. Yugoslavia and the NATO countries were therefore on good foot with each other.

[Ethel mermania]

Wait...hol up. According to the bible everyone was made in god's image...

...which means humanity is Serbian...

...and if humanity is Serbian then the Austrians must have been Serbian...

...therefore, from this we can deduce that Freud and Hitler were Serbian...

therefore the Serbs are responsible for WW1 and WW2 and all the associated atrocities.

Wait this also means Stalin was Serbian so the Serbs made the Eastern Bloc...wait the Serbs were responsible for the Cold War...the Serbs were responsible for the nuclear bomb...

Oh my god...it was all Serbia?

This is why Yugoslavia was actually a good thing: it kept all things Serbian under control. Yugoslavia and the NATO countries were therefore on good foot with each other.

Tito was an interesting character.

[Hurdergaryp]

This is why Yugoslavia was actually a good thing: it kept all things Serbian under control. Yugoslavia and the NATO countries were therefore on good foot with each other.

Tito was an interesting character.

Hence why he got invited to all the cool parties.

[Ethel mermania]

Tito was an interesting character.

Hence why he got invited to all the cool parties.

We went to an exhibition on Yugoslavian architecture a few years ago. It really was the cool place to go on the Adriatic

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitio ... ?locale=en

[The North Polish Union]

The "hysterical claims" are those of genocide. I have never denied that both Serbs and Albanians committed atrocities against each other.

But why would the claim of a specific intent be hysterical? You're just repeating that it is, but you're not actually providing an argument.

Serbia has been accused of and tried for genocide due to the actions they took during the conflict. Were Bosnia hysterical when it accused Serbia of genocide, before the courts found that Serbia "only" violated international law by failing to prevent the killings?

It is convenient to frame things as "accused of and tried for" because it leaves off the verdict. A person who has been acquitted in court for a crime has been "accused of and tried for" that crime and yet a guilty verdict was not given. No verdict of genocide was made in the case of Kosovo, whereas such a verdict was given in Bosnia; yet such a verdict cannot be extrapolated to Kosovo. The comparison with Russia and Ukraine has been used quite a bit: if Russia is found guilty of genocide in Ukraine, does that also mean they are guilty of genocide in Tatarstan?

It is further disingenuous to frame Bosniaks as being 'hysterical' in their genocide accusations prior to the nature of Serb actions in Bosnia being confirmed; the Bosniaks had a case to make and they made it succesfully, the Albanians have had a similar amount of time to make such a case and have failed to make it. If one wishes to rest one's case on lurid insinuations rather than establishable facts one is indeed being hysterical.

This is a situation where there is an important distinction between Ukraine and Serbia.

In Ukraine the atrocities are ongoing/contemporary, and they are primarily (although not always) happening on lands occupied by the nation accused of committing them who is hostile to international investigation into the goings-on in those occupied territories.

In Serbia the military conflict ended roughly 25 years ago, even the unilateral Kosovar declaration of 'independence' occurred 15 years ago. The areas on which the genocide is alleged to have occurred are de facto administered by the alleged victims of that genocide who have no reason to block international investigation. Additionally, this administration has the backing of the most powerful military on the planet which has used its diplomatic weight to openly prejudice the ICTY in favor of Albanians and against Serbs.

In Kosovo international prosecutors have had ample time to collect evidence of genocide (certainly far more than they had for Bosnia or Rwanda before ruling on those situations) and favorable conditions under which to investigate. Despite this, they have made no claims that genocide occurred. Those who claim it has are, in fact, making hysterical allegations which are not borne out by the reality, no matter what other crimes can be confirmed to have been committed.

That's simply false. What you're saying is that where the prohibited acts took place is under the rule of the Kosovo albanian victims. But again, we're talking about the requirement of specific intent. You don't often find evidence of genocidal intent on the ground where the actions took place. You need to examine orders, stated and unstated reasons, state of mind etc. That evidence would be in Belgrade, and Serbia, which is not under the rule of the victims. If you claim that Serbia has created favourable conditions for investigators, I would need to see a source corroborrating your claim, because I frankly do not believe it.

To again refer to the situation in Ukraine, the evidence for genocidal intent is not found on the ground. It's Putin's orders, it's the reporting by State media, it's the words of the Commissioner for Children’s Rights etc. That evidence comes from Russia.

Either you are failing to understand what we're talking about when we talk about intent, or you are speaking with two tongues, because you seem to refer to physical evidence. Which there's plenty of. The investigators have had no problems finding mass graves or victims of rape.

If one argues that specific intent cannot be established without access to archives in Belgrade, then why should one presume guilt rather than innocence? For that matter if one believes that specific intent cannot be established without access to archives in Belgrade, then how were prosecutors able to make a determination of genocide in the case of Bosnia? Was it from public statements such as the Russian ones you mention? If these statements are public why have prosecutors been unable to establish specific intent from them? Are they unable to translate Serbian? Were they able to do so in the Bosnian context?

But no, you cannot have it both ways. Either one can establish specific intent without access to still-classified Serbian material, in which case prosecutorial inability to establish that there was a genocide in Kosovo is evidence that no such genocide occurred. Or one cannot establish specific intent without access to still-classified Serbian material, in which case one should probably deny the Bosnian genocide as well, a position which neither of us are interested in taking.

It is hardly irrelevant. The entire raison d'être for Kosovar independence movement is that Kosovar Albanians were the victims of targeted ethnic violence by Serbs. Of course, Kosovar Serbs were (and still are) the victims of targeted ethnic violence by Albanians; hundreds of thousands of them have been killed, disappeared, or been forced to flee the region.

That does not make the crimes perpetrated on the Kosovo Albanians any less of a crime. It does not change whether or not what happened to Kosovo Albanians was a genocide.

I see no reason to participate in your silly attempt at an oppression olympics.

I have never denied that crimes were committed against Kosovar Albanians. However, if one seriously wishes to make the argument that the crimes against them rose to genocide, one must be willfully blind not to argue that there was a concurrent genocide of Kosovar Serbs. Why one should be acknowledged but not the other is baffling.

I see no reason to participate in your silly attempt at an oppression olympics.

Given the facts, one wonders what about the Kosovar Albanians makes them somehow more worthy to administer the region than the Kosovar Serbs. If the spectre of violence made Serbia unfit to administer it, shouldn't that make the Priština administration unfit also?

Yes and no.

I don't think any former KLA fighter who're implicated in crimes is fit to govern. Hashim Thaçi is standing trial for war crimes, and that's a good thing. I wish Kosovo could shake off its past and find new blood. But I respect the democratic processes which, despite their many flaws, do exist in Kosovo.

On the other hand, however, Serbia, as the violent aggressor with a history of persecuting minorities, is clearly both unfit and unwanted.

This, of course, has no bearing on whether or not what happened in Kosovo was a genocide.

If being a "violent aggressor with a history of persecuting minorities" makes a government "both unfit and unwanted" then every permanent member of the UN Security Council's governments are unfit and unwanted. Lurid accusations aside (have the sizable Bulgarian or Hungarian minorities in Serbia faced persecution?), is it really reasonable for NATO to carve up Serbia as they see fit, and not do the same on behalf of the Catalans in Spain or Kurds in Turkey?

And of course all of this applies equally well to both Serbs and Albanians in theory. The only difference in practice is that one side has the support of a major power who is willing to carve up the region in contravention of international norms while turning a blind eye to violence of the sort for which they got involved in the first place.

That simply is not true. The region was not carved up by any major powers. The region was carved up by Serbian aggression, and the consequences of said aggression.

Nonsense, it was very clearly carved up by the USA who took a side on an ethnic conflict in which both sides were perpetrating serious crimes against the other and chose to frame the conflict as one in which one group was hapless and innocent and the other was a cartoonishly evil bloodthirsty horde.

[The Acolyte Confederacy]

my balls are an angry serb

Wait...hol up. According to the bible everyone was made in god's image...

...which means humanity is Serbian...

...and if humanity is Serbian then the Austrians must have been Serbian...

...therefore, from this we can deduce that Freud and Hitler were Serbian...

therefore the Serbs are responsible for WW1 and WW2 and all the associated atrocities.

Wait this also means Stalin was Serbian so the Serbs made the Eastern Bloc...wait the Serbs were responsible for the Cold War...the Serbs were responsible for the nuclear bomb...

Oh my god...it was all Serbia?

local nationstates user solves the secret of the universe

[The Acolyte Confederacy]

sounds like someones a troll

my balls are an angry serb

I just told you not to trollname, and then you hit us with the one two punch of trollnaming followed by shitposting. Considering your warn history, take a *** Warning for Spam *** and be aware that you're likely to escalate to a ban on the next offense.

what do you mean "just told me to not troll name?" you havent said that to me ever, and why is shitposting a bad thing? not only has someone else done it and was untouched, this topic does not have serious in the title, and not only that its literally making a joke with another user, and then warmed for spam???????? this makes no sense