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Revisiting Interesting Incel Perspectives.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Soviet Haaregrad
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16610
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Sat May 27, 2023 1:19 pm

Galloism wrote:
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
[citation needed]

He said it as an absolute instead of a trendline, but, sadly, the trendlines do sadly match the statement (broadly).

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 7218781000


That study doesn't directly comment on what Saiwana described.
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Privatization of collectively owned property is theft.
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73172
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat May 27, 2023 1:20 pm

Kenowa wrote:
Galloism wrote:
Toxic masculinity is a gendered hate term. Please stop expressing gendered hatred. Please use internalized misandry instead.

I mean, yeah it is of bad taste, but I would not call it straight up hateful. I don't think it's mean on bad faith most of the time, they are just ignorant.


I knew an old woman one time who referred to Brazilian nuts as "nigger toes" (an older term for the same thing). A polite person corrects people who may be unwittingly using bigoted hate terms.

This isn’t what actually happens. Try to express in your feminist circles how the data with the cdc shows that most men who are raped are raped by women, and that fbi data shows this is almost never prosecuted.

Rape statics are sort of hazy, since several factors come in play that make men be less likely to report rape than women. It's a severely underreported crime and it's not worth it arguing who has it worse or who does it, but how can we stop it, in general. We should not portrait neither rapists nor victims as the same gender as it hurts other cases where they do not align.

Men and women can be rapists, men and women can be victims. A woman can rape a woman, but that's also severely underreported.


True, but trendlines are important - most women are raped by men, and most men are raped by women (if one uses a nonsexist definition of rape). Expressing that reality is necessary to breaking the stigma.

I give max 10 posts until someone says “male tears”, which is a gendered attempt to shame men into adopting the older stereotypical male gender role of stoicism and strength. Or, in your terms, to enforce “toxic masculinity”.

Look man, I get you. You are not being malevolent or anything, you are just confused. But you are doing what feminists are doing by negating women's issues by using men's.

I am not negating women's issues. And if you think bringing rapists to justice is negating women's issues, then you have a problem.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Juansonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2172
Founded: Apr 01, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Juansonia » Sat May 27, 2023 1:20 pm

Union Hispanica de Naciones wrote:Also, does someone of here knew of the case some women in the repuclican Spain said that women shouldn't vote because they "Weren't preparated to vote without their husband"? it's interesting, feminism says that represents all of the womens, but there are some women who oppose to this, interesting...
It's almost like people are individuals that happen to fall within demographics, and any cause based on inter-demographic relations will always have support/opposition that contradicts the "demographics are a functional monolith" model.
Hatsune Miku > British Imperialism
IC: MT if you ignore some stuff(mostly flavor), stats are not canon. Embassy link.
OOC: Owns and (sometimes) wears a maid outfit, wants to pair it with a FN SCAR-L. He/Him/His
Space Squid wrote:Each sin should get it's own month.

Right now, Pride gets June, and Greed, Envy, and Gluttony have to share Thanksgiving/Black Friday through Christmas, Sloth gets one day in September, and Lust gets one day in February.

It's not equitable at all
Gandoor wrote:Cliché: A mod making a reply that's full of swearing after someone asks if you're allowed to swear on this site.

It makes me chuckle every time it happens.
Brits mistake Miku for their Anthem

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Ifreann
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Posts: 163111
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sat May 27, 2023 1:20 pm

Kenowa wrote:Despite the incel community being rather toxic due to it's moral semi-anarchistic attitude (you literally could just say anything there, except for displaying sympathy for women)

Trying to process the idea of incels being anarchistic is giving me a brain aneurysm.
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beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73172
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat May 27, 2023 1:20 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
Galloism wrote:He said it as an absolute instead of a trendline, but, sadly, the trendlines do sadly match the statement (broadly).

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 7218781000


That study doesn't directly comment on what Saiwana described.

It finds that benevolent sexist men (which is what "traditionalism" generally describes) are more attractive to both feminists and nonfeminists.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Kenowa
Envoy
 
Posts: 319
Founded: Nov 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kenowa » Sat May 27, 2023 1:21 pm

Union Hispanica de Naciones wrote:Also, does someone of here knew of the case some women in the repuclican Spain said that women shouldn't vote because they "Weren't preparated to vote without their husband"? it's interesting, feminism says that represents all of the womens, but there are some women who oppose to this, interesting...

In theory feminism wants to give people the option to choose. But in practice they end up giving the message that the right thing to do is to choose the new option they are presenting. To the feminists if a woman wants to vote she should be able to, and if she doesn't she also should be able to. But the message gets distorted and it ends up as "Women must vote", which I personally don't disagree with since I support compulsory voting but in other matters it gets more complex.
✿ Co Dimokratiá Tde Kenowa ★
"Prosperity Through Community"

He/Him, 17, Apparently a fascist, Argentinean
“We must create a kind of globalization that works for everyone and not just for a few.”
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Union Hispanica de Naciones
Envoy
 
Posts: 292
Founded: Jan 13, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Union Hispanica de Naciones » Sat May 27, 2023 1:21 pm

Union Hispanica de Naciones wrote:Also, does someone of here knew of the case some women in the repuclican Spain said that women shouldn't vote because they "Weren't preparated to vote without their husband"? it's interesting, feminism says that represents all of the womens, but there are some women who oppose to this, interesting...

Here's a video talking about that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ljcc4S2t4&t
(it's in spanish, idk if you can understand it).
Solamente un descendiente del Imperio Español después de una guerra civil, no mucho más.

La Unión Hispanica de Naciones es una nación descendiente del Imperio Español, la nación gobernada por Su Majestad esta abierta a debates, reuniones diplomaticas y tratados de comercio o diplomaticos, si nos atacan, nos defenderemos con uñas y dientes por la Unión.
¡Contactenos ahora y forgemos una nueva alianza!

Si, si se lo preguntaban, esta nación representa mis visiones politicas OOC casi que al completo, hay algunas excepciones como la sustracción de organos pero por la mayoría esto es canon en mi mente.

Aviso: Englishmen, USE TRANSLATE!
LAS STATS EN SU MAYORÍA NO SON CANON, Hay excepciones como la población, pero la mayoría NO LO SON.

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The Pirateariat
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: May 07, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby The Pirateariat » Sat May 27, 2023 1:22 pm

Saiwana wrote:
The Pirateariat wrote:Saiwana, you don't know what women say or what they do. You can't point out any contradictions, except the ones that you have imagined.


Its not imagined at all. There is a lot of gaslighting going on. The men who do everything Feminism tells them to do are often striking out. Whilst the more traditionalist men aren't having any problems, provided they don't care if their woman has their own job/career going and if he has good/stable income. The men who don't have power/status typically have to have traits that plenty of women like nonetheless, like how some have affairs with convicts in prison.

Of course women, being people, do all kinds of things.

It's just absolutely everything you read into those actions that's imagined. Being entirely based on your own weird fantasies of power and victimhood.

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Kenowa
Envoy
 
Posts: 319
Founded: Nov 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kenowa » Sat May 27, 2023 1:23 pm

Galloism wrote:
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
That study doesn't directly comment on what Saiwana described.

It finds that benevolent sexist men (which is what "traditionalism" generally describes) are more attractive to both feminists and nonfeminists.

There is no benevolent sexism, you are just being nice to someone and people like you more for it. You would be more widely liked if you did benevolent sexism for both genders.
✿ Co Dimokratiá Tde Kenowa ★
"Prosperity Through Community"

He/Him, 17, Apparently a fascist, Argentinean
“We must create a kind of globalization that works for everyone and not just for a few.”
Nestor Kirchner

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73172
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat May 27, 2023 1:23 pm

Kenowa wrote:
Galloism wrote:It finds that benevolent sexist men (which is what "traditionalism" generally describes) are more attractive to both feminists and nonfeminists.

There is no benevolent sexism, you are just being nice to someone and people like you more for it. You would be more widely liked if you did benevolent sexism for both genders.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 7218781000

Maybe read the study before commenting. It might help.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Kenowa
Envoy
 
Posts: 319
Founded: Nov 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kenowa » Sat May 27, 2023 1:27 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kenowa wrote:There is no benevolent sexism, you are just being nice to someone and people like you more for it. You would be more widely liked if you did benevolent sexism for both genders.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 7218781000

Maybe read the study before commenting. It might help.

Yeah, sorry. Now that I did I see where you are coming from. Also I'm not mature enought to read a article that reffers to benevolent sexist attitudes as "BS Attitudes" with a straight face :lol2:
✿ Co Dimokratiá Tde Kenowa ★
"Prosperity Through Community"

He/Him, 17, Apparently a fascist, Argentinean
“We must create a kind of globalization that works for everyone and not just for a few.”
Nestor Kirchner

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73172
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat May 27, 2023 1:27 pm

Kenowa wrote:
Galloism wrote:https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 7218781000

Maybe read the study before commenting. It might help.

Yeah, sorry. Now that I did I see where you are coming from. Also I'm not mature enought to read a article that reffers to benevolent sexist attitudes as "BS Attitudes" with a straight face :lol2:

Fair enough.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Saiwana
Diplomat
 
Posts: 918
Founded: Mar 12, 2023
Father Knows Best State

Postby Saiwana » Sat May 27, 2023 1:40 pm

Kenowa wrote:There is no benevolent sexism, you are just being nice to someone and people like you more for it. You would be more widely liked if you did benevolent sexism for both genders.


Nice is nothing special, and can often turn people off more. There are tons of people who make that mistake and strike out or get confused for a Nice Guy if they complain about their lack of success. Coming across as confident, authentic, or being blunt with your intentions is often key. Not that it'll work for everyone, but more successful than just being some pushover or invisible to people.

Don't ever let your work/credit be stolen if this is within your power, and say no or do some rejecting of your own, if you're being had from being too accomodating to other people.
Last edited by Saiwana on Sat May 27, 2023 1:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Was Saiwania from 2008 to 2023. Remember the past, but strive for your future.

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The Sherpa Empire
Minister
 
Posts: 3198
Founded: Jan 15, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sat May 27, 2023 3:56 pm

Kenowa wrote:The incels point out that if you are ugly or submissive women are not going to feel attracted to you, which is true, but it is not limited to that and I believe it's worth expanding on when contrasted to the other incel ideas.


Who told you women weren't attracted to submissive men?

I think sometimes people get submissiveness confused with insecurity, desperation, or a lack of accomplishments. Submissiveness is attractive to many women, even if the appeal is not universal. Insecurity, desperation, and a lack of accomplishments are unattractive to most people.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།
Following new legislation in The Sherpa Empire, life is short but human kindness is endless.
Alternate IC names: Sherpaland, Pharak

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Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129053
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sat May 27, 2023 4:04 pm

Incels need therapy for their issues.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 



http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44801
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat May 27, 2023 4:14 pm

DutchFormosa wrote:Wasn't expecting a thread topic like this.

There's one about every month, dude.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Rusozak
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6837
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rusozak » Sat May 27, 2023 5:37 pm

Again we give too much credit to rebranded misogyny. That's all being an incel is. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend there's more to it than that. We don't need to validate their hate by having a long and drawn out debate on the merits of hating half of all humans.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

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Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36807
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Sat May 27, 2023 6:57 pm

Neonian Technocracy wrote:
Equai wrote:Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

If all of us were machines non of this discutions will be relevant!

When your discussion includes the idea that the slight majority of the population's desires and agency should be suppressed for the desires of a small subset of the slight minority of the population's benefit, then there is no need for discussion.

No is a full sentence.

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Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36807
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Sat May 27, 2023 7:04 pm

X3nder Tech wrote:
Equai wrote:TLDR thread: Men trying to present themselves as victims (again)

OOC: Women have actually full rights in countries of the world like the european states, united states, etc, the places were feminists need to focus more are places like the middle east where women are ACTUALLY represed, not places already liberated like Europe, some women have actually better salary than average man, some men are being ACTUALLY maltreated by their wifes, I think we are going to a society where the papers of men>women are being inversed and in few years will be men<women, I want equal rights for all, not put the balance more easy to a group.

Women have full rights in a country that just stripped them of bodily autonomy?

What reality are you living in?

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Restructured Russia
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: Jun 18, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Restructured Russia » Sat May 27, 2023 10:43 pm

“Financial abuse” is code for not letting your wife or girlfriend fleece you of all your hard earned money in my experience. It isn’t a real form of misogyny or oppression at all.
An alternate Russia where the White Guards won the Russian Civil War, Kolchak instituted a military regime and reign of terror that lasted for decades, and the rumored security service known as the Kommandatura absolutely does not exist. Of course, because why would it?

Jimmy Dore/Richard Wolff 2024 Because it's time for some real populists! Besides, a team of a jagoff comedian and a Marxist professor would be fun to watch in action.

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The Sherpa Empire
Minister
 
Posts: 3198
Founded: Jan 15, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sat May 27, 2023 11:09 pm

Restructured Russia wrote:“Financial abuse” is code for not letting your wife or girlfriend fleece you of all your hard earned money in my experience. It isn’t a real form of misogyny or oppression at all.


Financial abuse is a very real and very common issue that people of all genders can fall victim to -- and that is not at all what it means.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།
Following new legislation in The Sherpa Empire, life is short but human kindness is endless.
Alternate IC names: Sherpaland, Pharak

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Saiwana
Diplomat
 
Posts: 918
Founded: Mar 12, 2023
Father Knows Best State

Postby Saiwana » Sat May 27, 2023 11:17 pm

Katganistan wrote:Women have full rights in a country that just stripped them of bodily autonomy?


Abortion becoming more restricted or banned is absolutely based. Women are finally getting more consequences from hypergamy or promiscuity in general. There should be at least some carve outs to allow for abortion in more narrow contexts, but this risks being abused from people who want a mile if even an inch is given.

And it isn't as if men are off the hook either, because if DNA says that a child is theirs, then they have to pay child support if a court rules as such, which should be the case. Most unfortunately, some deadbeats get away with no financial penalty from not being found or reported, if they're not simply too poor to be of any use. If that is the case, it sort of is on the woman if she chose him.
Last edited by Saiwana on Sat May 27, 2023 11:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Was Saiwania from 2008 to 2023. Remember the past, but strive for your future.

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Restructured Russia
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: Jun 18, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Restructured Russia » Sat May 27, 2023 11:18 pm

The Sherpa Empire wrote:
Restructured Russia wrote:“Financial abuse” is code for not letting your wife or girlfriend fleece you of all your hard earned money in my experience. It isn’t a real form of misogyny or oppression at all.


Financial abuse is a very real and very common issue that people of all genders can fall victim to -- and that is not at all what it means.


Explain, then, because in my experience, it’s connected to the same kind of dishonesty as the claim that Fourth Wave Feminism advocates gender equality instead of reverse oppression as it actually promotes. Both strike me as semantic dodges and euphemisms meant to justify replacing one dominant sex with another.
An alternate Russia where the White Guards won the Russian Civil War, Kolchak instituted a military regime and reign of terror that lasted for decades, and the rumored security service known as the Kommandatura absolutely does not exist. Of course, because why would it?

Jimmy Dore/Richard Wolff 2024 Because it's time for some real populists! Besides, a team of a jagoff comedian and a Marxist professor would be fun to watch in action.

User avatar
Restructured Russia
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: Jun 18, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Restructured Russia » Sat May 27, 2023 11:20 pm

Saiwana wrote:
Katganistan wrote:Women have full rights in a country that just stripped them of bodily autonomy?


Abortion becoming more restricted or banned is absolutely based. Women are finally getting more consequences from hypergamy or promiscuity in general.

And it isn't as if men are off the hook either, because if DNA says that a child is theirs, then they have to pay child support if a court rules as such, which should be the case. Most unfortunately, some deadbeats get away with no financial penalty from not being found or reported, if they're not simply too poor to be of any use. If that is the case, it sort of is on the woman if she chose him.


Actually, abortion rights benefit both sexes, as demonstrated by men seeking vasectomies en masse since Roe was overturned.
An alternate Russia where the White Guards won the Russian Civil War, Kolchak instituted a military regime and reign of terror that lasted for decades, and the rumored security service known as the Kommandatura absolutely does not exist. Of course, because why would it?

Jimmy Dore/Richard Wolff 2024 Because it's time for some real populists! Besides, a team of a jagoff comedian and a Marxist professor would be fun to watch in action.

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Alcala-Cordel
Senator
 
Posts: 4405
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Sat May 27, 2023 11:32 pm

Incels are too warped by toxic self-pity to discuss in any meaningful way.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Sat May 27, 2023 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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