Ukrainian War VI: Pyrrhus in Bakhmut

[The Selkie]

I have a question which I promise is in good faith:

There is a common objection to the relocation of Ukrainian children in occupied territories to Russia, which is often called "kidnapping" and "genocide" - an understandable perspective. What I would like to know, though, is where should the children go? They should stay in their homes which are likely reduced to rubble and probably without no electricity or plumbing or maybe even food, close to the front line and thus in the line of fire for stray munitions? Should they be sent to the Ukrainian side where they could potentially end up in cities that Russia intends to conquer or attack, thereby putting them at risk again anyway? Should they be sent to foreign lands with alien environments and unknown cultures to be subject to uncertain conditions? If sending them to Russia is the "wrong" answer, then what is the right one? This is a genuine question; not a defense of Russia's acts. I've seen the act condemned a multitude of times but not once have I seen an alternative be proposed, and I personally do not find it agreeable to keep them in an active warzone and thereby oppose the status quo. I admit I'm not familiar with the experiences these children have had in Russia so far, either.

The thing is, from what I understand, that the children going to Russia in and of itself is not the problem. Bringing civilians, no matter their age, out of the line of fire is not wrong in and of itself. I think I remember there even being a clause in the Hague Conventions about military assets used for such purposes and them being clearly marked being protected or something, but don't quote me on that one.
Where it gets wrong, and into genocidal territory, is putting these children up for adoption and assigning them to families of clear Pro-Putinist disposition to be raised as Russian children and not Ukrainian.
So, if these children would go to Russia, but into refugee camps with other Ukrainians, maybe even their parents, with the clear statement of them returning home after the SMB is over (or maybe even during it, depending on where their parents are/live), there would be no problem. As that is not the case... well...
But even if we say "Okay, they should not go to Russia", first and foremost, the place these children belong to is with their parents. From there, the parents (or parent, or other custodial parent) can decide what to do - fleeing to Western Ukraine or abroad, staying in the Ukraine, whatever. If the children are orphans, same story.

[Oceasia]

Russia kidnapped orphaned Ukrainians with the intention of committing cultural genocide upon the Ukrainian nation by raising those orphans as Russians. It’s no different to the supposedly ‘civilising’ boarding schools that First Nation children in Canada and the United States, and Aboriginal children in Australia, were sent to. They’re both driven with the same intent and beliefs - that the children come from ‘savage/primitive’ cultures and need to be ‘civilised’.

I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see evidence for the claim that they are trying to Russify the children. I've heard the claim often but never seen it substantiated. Not that it isn't believable of course, just that I'd like to see weight behind the claim.

Wouldn't separating them from their Ukrainian families and giving them up for adoption by Russian parents be evidence enough? There's a reason that this is the specific war crime the ICC is charging Putin with. They've been explicit with their intentions.

[El Lazaro]

Reuniting them with their families outside Ukraine is certainly the best option. But for orphanages or relatives in Western Ukraine that just brings up the previous point: Russia intends to move the front line. Will they get all the way to the Polish border? Doubtful, and I'm not certain they even want to anymore, but Russian missiles can still land in Lviv. As long as they're still in Ukraine they're still at risk. Is that really worth it?

Not violating international law by kidnapping and grooming preteens into becoming russified Z-stooges would be an awesome start

That you have no answer tells me you didn't consider the question at all.

My answer is “literally anything besides genocide” in the same way that I’d say that rapist serial killers should do “literally anything besides raping and murdering people”

[Great Britain eke Northern Ireland]

Russia kidnapped orphaned Ukrainians with the intention of committing cultural genocide upon the Ukrainian nation by raising those orphans as Russians. It’s no different to the supposedly ‘civilising’ boarding schools that First Nation children in Canada and the United States, and Aboriginal children in Australia, were sent to. They’re both driven with the same intent and beliefs - that the children come from ‘savage/primitive’ cultures and need to be ‘civilised’.

I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see evidence for the claim that they are trying to Russify the children. I've heard the claim often but never seen it substantiated. Not that it isn't believable of course, just that I'd like to see weight behind the claim.

"Russia also has prepared a register of suitable Russian families for Ukrainian children, and pays them for each child who gets citizenship — up to $1,000 for those with disabilities. It holds summer camps for Ukrainian orphans, offers “patriotic education” classes and even runs a hotline to pair Russian families with children from Donbas."
-
"In the Siberian city of Salekhard along the Arctic Circle, Olga Druzhinina said she adopted four children, aged 6 to 17, from around the Ukrainian city of Donetsk more than 1,600 miles away. Russia recently illegally annexed the Donetsk region and three others in eastern and southern Ukraine.
“Our family is like a small Russia,” Ms. Druzhinina said in an interview. “Russia took in four territories, and the Druzhinin family took in four children.”

She said she was awaiting a fifth child and considered the children fully Russian. “We are not taking what is not ours,” she said."

[El Lazaro]

I have a question which I promise is in good faith:

There is a common objection to the relocation of Ukrainian children in occupied territories to Russia, which is often called "kidnapping" and "genocide" - an understandable perspective. What I would like to know, though, is where should the children go? They should stay in their homes which are likely reduced to rubble and probably without no electricity or plumbing or maybe even food, close to the front line and thus in the line of fire for stray munitions? Should they be sent to the Ukrainian side where they could potentially end up in cities that Russia intends to conquer or attack, thereby putting them at risk again anyway? Should they be sent to foreign lands with alien environments and unknown cultures to be subject to uncertain conditions? If sending them to Russia is the "wrong" answer, then what is the right one? This is a genuine question; not a defense of Russia's acts. I've seen the act condemned a multitude of times but not once have I seen an alternative be proposed, and I personally do not find it agreeable to keep them in an active warzone and thereby oppose the status quo. I admit I'm not familiar with the experiences these children have had in Russia so far, either.

The thing is, from what I understand, that the children going to Russia in and of itself is not the problem. Bringing civilians, no matter their age, out of the line of fire is not wrong in and of itself. I think I remember there even being a clause in the Hague Conventions about military assets used for such purposes and them being clearly marked being protected or something, but don't quote me on that one.
Where it gets wrong, and into genocidal territory, is putting these children up for adoption and assigning them to families of clear Pro-Putinist disposition to be raised as Russian children and not Ukrainian.
So, if these children would go to Russia, but into refugee camps with other Ukrainians, maybe even their parents, with the clear statement of them returning home after the SMB is over (or maybe even during it, depending on where their parents are/live), there would be no problem. As that is not the case... well...
But even if we say "Okay, they should not go to Russia", first and foremost, the place these children belong to is with their parents. From there, the parents (or parent, or other custodial parent) can decide what to do - fleeing to Western Ukraine or abroad, staying in the Ukraine, whatever. If the children are orphans, same story.

The majority of abducted children remain in re-education camps akin to Indian residential schools, not even with Kremlin loyalists.

[The Selkie]

The majority of abducted children remain in re-education camps akin to Indian residential schools, not even with Kremlin loyalists.

That does not make it any better, if you ask me.

[Primitive Communism]

I have a question which I promise is in good faith:

There is a common objection to the relocation of Ukrainian children in occupied territories to Russia, which is often called "kidnapping" and "genocide" - an understandable perspective. What I would like to know, though, is where should the children go? They should stay in their homes which are likely reduced to rubble and probably without no electricity or plumbing or maybe even food, close to the front line and thus in the line of fire for stray munitions? Should they be sent to the Ukrainian side where they could potentially end up in cities that Russia intends to conquer or attack, thereby putting them at risk again anyway? Should they be sent to foreign lands with alien environments and unknown cultures to be subject to uncertain conditions? If sending them to Russia is the "wrong" answer, then what is the right one? This is a genuine question; not a defense of Russia's acts. I've seen the act condemned a multitude of times but not once have I seen an alternative be proposed, and I personally do not find it agreeable to keep them in an active warzone and thereby oppose the status quo. I admit I'm not familiar with the experiences these children have had in Russia so far, either.

The thing is, from what I understand, that the children going to Russia in and of itself is not the problem. Bringing civilians, no matter their age, out of the line of fire is not wrong in and of itself. I think I remember there even being a clause in the Hague Conventions about military assets used for such purposes and them being clearly marked being protected or something, but don't quote me on that one.
Where it gets wrong, and into genocidal territory, is putting these children up for adoption and assigning them to families of clear Pro-Putinist disposition to be raised as Russian children and not Ukrainian.
So, if these children would go to Russia, but into refugee camps with other Ukrainians, maybe even their parents, with the clear statement of them returning home after the SMB is over (or maybe even during it, depending on where their parents are/live), there would be no problem. As that is not the case... well...
But even if we say "Okay, they should not go to Russia", first and foremost, the place these children belong to is with their parents. From there, the parents (or parent, or other custodial parent) can decide what to do - fleeing to Western Ukraine or abroad, staying in the Ukraine, whatever. If the children are orphans, same story.

I agree with the overall sentiment but I would hesitate to use the phrasing that children "belong" with/to their parents simply because I disagree with the possessive manner in which society views parent-child relations, in which the child isn't a person of their own but rather is the property of their parent(s). We obviously should not condone returning children to parents if, for example, those parents were neglectful or abusive - especially not if the child objects. But that's more of a nitpick.

I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see evidence for the claim that they are trying to Russify the children. I've heard the claim often but never seen it substantiated. Not that it isn't believable of course, just that I'd like to see weight behind the claim.

Wouldn't separating them from their Ukrainian families and giving them up for adoption by Russian parents be evidence enough? There's a reason that this is the specific war crime the ICC is charging Putin with. They've been explicit with their intentions.

In the case of breaking up families, yes. But many of these children were orphans (or at least were under state care) even before the war. For them I think it more important to give them a choice in their destiny, though I confess to being skeptical as to whether or not the Russian State would offer them a fair choice if a choice at all.

Reuniting them with their families outside Ukraine is certainly the best option. But for orphanages or relatives in Western Ukraine that just brings up the previous point: Russia intends to move the front line. Will they get all the way to the Polish border? Doubtful, and I'm not certain they even want to anymore, but Russian missiles can still land in Lviv. As long as they're still in Ukraine they're still at risk. Is that really worth it?



That you have no answer tells me you didn't consider the question at all.

My answer is “literally anything besides genocide” in the same way that I’d say that rapist serial killers should do “literally anything besides raping and murdering people”

Your answer was a snide response which was unhelpful, uninformative, unthoughtful and unwarranted. If that's all you're capable of producing when posed with a serious question on a complicated situation asked in good faith then I think it best not to bother responding at all.

Fortunately others have already offered better responses so I have no further reason to engage with your sneering, standoffish attitude.

I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see evidence for the claim that they are trying to Russify the children. I've heard the claim often but never seen it substantiated. Not that it isn't believable of course, just that I'd like to see weight behind the claim.

"Russia also has prepared a register of suitable Russian families for Ukrainian children, and pays them for each child who gets citizenship — up to $1,000 for those with disabilities. It holds summer camps for Ukrainian orphans, offers “patriotic education” classes and even runs a hotline to pair Russian families with children from Donbas."
-
"In the Siberian city of Salekhard along the Arctic Circle, Olga Druzhinina said she adopted four children, aged 6 to 17, from around the Ukrainian city of Donetsk more than 1,600 miles away. Russia recently illegally annexed the Donetsk region and three others in eastern and southern Ukraine.
“Our family is like a small Russia,” Ms. Druzhinina said in an interview. “Russia took in four territories, and the Druzhinin family took in four children.”

She said she was awaiting a fifth child and considered the children fully Russian. “We are not taking what is not ours,” she said."

Thank you, I appreciate the effort. I admire the tenacity of these children regarding the situation they seem to find themselves in, both the ones holding out hope to return home to their families and the ones who look forward to their new lives. But the politicization of these children as tools for propaganda is certainly sickening. As is the forcible displacements, brainwashing and deliberate obstruction of reunions. The warmongers must answer for the crimes being visited in this travesty of a conflict.

[El Lazaro]

My answer is “literally anything besides genocide” in the same way that I’d say that rapist serial killers should do “literally anything besides raping and murdering people”

Your answer was a snide response which was unhelpful, uninformative, unthoughtful and unwarranted. If that's all you're capable of producing when posed with a serious question on a complicated situation asked in good faith then I think it best not to bother responding at all.

Fortunately others have already offered better responses so I have no further reason to engage with your sneering, standoffish attitude.

Genocide is bad IMO, but there are clearly other acceptable views on the morality of genocide. Better?

Is this satire or are you actually just doing everything you’re accusing me of doing in true Kremlin fashion?

[Primitive Communism]

Your answer was a snide response which was unhelpful, uninformative, unthoughtful and unwarranted. If that's all you're capable of producing when posed with a serious question on a complicated situation asked in good faith then I think it best not to bother responding at all.

Fortunately others have already offered better responses so I have no further reason to engage with your sneering, standoffish attitude.

Genocide is bad IMO, but there are clearly other acceptable views on the morality of genocide. Better?

Is this satire or are you actually just doing everything you’re accusing me of doing in true Kremlin fashion?

I have never denied a genocide was occurring. I asked what the best realistic option for war orphans was, to which you've responded with nothing but latent hostility - apparently on the misguided assumption that I am acting in the defense of a bandit state waging a war of aggression either as a paid propagandist or deluded fanatic. I suspected this was probably the case but it's nice to have confirmation.

Go project your own emotional and intellectual failings on someone else.

[Raskana]

So whats next?, new target for Russia or Ukrainian counteroffensive?

[Great Britain eke Northern Ireland]

Thank you, I appreciate the effort. I admire the tenacity of these children regarding the situation they seem to find themselves in, both the ones holding out hope to return home to their families and the ones who look forward to their new lives. But the politicization of these children as tools for propaganda is certainly sickening. As is the forcible displacements, brainwashing and deliberate obstruction of reunions. The warmongers must answer for the crimes being visited in this travesty of a conflict.

To be honest, it’s a reliable rule of thumb to expect the worst from Russia and the Russians who aren’t currently sabotaging the Putinist regime. While I do sincerely wish for children to be safe, submitting them to any Russians’ oversight regardless of the circumstances is complete foolishness and worthy of nothing but condemnation. I wouldn’t wish Russian “fostering” onto any Ukrainian or ethnic minority child.

Unfortunately, even when Ukraine wins the war, those children by and large won’t be returned to their families and their nation. Russia has permanently stolen the futures and identities of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children without their consent, and Russians won’t give up their captives so easily. The best one can hope for is that these children somehow manage to flee or realise their situation and cause trouble for the Muscovite menace in the future.

[The Selkie]

So whats next?, new target for Russia or Ukrainian counteroffensive?

I'd bet both, but don't ask me, which target it will be exactly. If, however, the Ukrainians try to retake what's left of Bachmut, that'd be a waste of time, manpower, material and effort.

[El Lazaro]

Genocide is bad IMO, but there are clearly other acceptable views on the morality of genocide. Better?

Is this satire or are you actually just doing everything you’re accusing me of doing in true Kremlin fashion?

I have never denied a genocide was occurring. I asked what the best realistic option for war orphans was, to which you've responded with nothing but latent hostility - apparently on the misguided assumption that I am acting in the defense of a bandit state waging a war of aggression either as a paid propagandist or deluded fanatic. I suspected this was probably the case but it's nice to have confirmation.

Go project your own emotional and intellectual failings on someone else.

Lol.

I see you’ve intellectually failed to provide me with an intellectual response to the question of what Hitler should have done with the Jews if not put them in concentration camps. I can tell you are intellectually unserious and unable to grapple with intellectual titans such as myself. Adjusts Redditor glasses spectacles.

[Bradfordville]

Congrats Russia on taking Bakhmut!

Russia takes Bakhmut, according to Russians.

Yeah, I'm taking this claim with a pillar of salt.

[Rary]

Congrats Russia on taking Bakhmut!

Russia takes Bakhmut, according to Russians.

Yeah, I'm taking this claim with a pillar of salt.

*and multiple other sources.

The fact of the matter is that Bakhmut has already fallen. Ukrainian forces hold very little of the city.

[Adamede]

Sooo Ukraine is the Afghanistan of this decade?

No, the two aren’t even comparable.

[Adamede]

Russia kidnapped orphaned Ukrainians with the intention of committing cultural genocide upon the Ukrainian nation by raising those orphans as Russians. It’s no different to the supposedly ‘civilising’ boarding schools that First Nation children in Canada and the United States, and Aboriginal children in Australia, were sent to. They’re both driven with the same intent and beliefs - that the children come from ‘savage/primitive’ cultures and need to be ‘civilised’.

I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see evidence for the claim that they are trying to Russify the children. I've heard the claim often but never seen it substantiated. Not that it isn't believable of course, just that I'd like to see weight behind the claim.

Yah this literally cultural genocide.

And unlike your last comment about Ukrainians oppressing Russians this is actually happening.

[Adamede]

With their parents to other countries in Europe or refugee shelters in western Ukraine? The "alien experience" of being in a foreign land will be less alienating with their parents acting as support.

If they are orphaned, then send them to orphanges west of Ukraine, far away from the frontline. Then the state raises them until adoption or reaching the age of majority.

Reuniting them with their families outside Ukraine is certainly the best option. But for orphanages or relatives in Western Ukraine that just brings up the previous point: Russia intends to move the front line. Will they get all the way to the Polish border? Doubtful, and I'm not certain they even want to anymore, but Russian missiles can still land in Lviv. As long as they're still in Ukraine they're still at risk. Is that really worth it?

Not violating international law by kidnapping and grooming preteens into becoming russified Z-stooges would be an awesome start

That you have no answer tells me you didn't consider the question at all.

Except it is a consideration. The only reason that these children need to flee a fucking war zone is because the Russians themselves turned Ukraine into a fucking war zone.

Every one of your comments so far seems to be trying to make excuses for the Russians.

[Adamede]

Congrats Russia on taking Bakhmut!

Only cost you tens of thousands of men at 5 times the casualty rate that the Ukrainians suffered.

Now comes the time for the Vatniks to try and justify the strategic importance that they’ve claimed Bakhmut has had for months now.

[Querria]

Reposting for new thread:

So List of Russian Lies about the war in Ukraine:

Claimed that the Russian army was strong enough to reach Berlin within 48 hours.
Claimed that the Russian army was strong enough to reach Kyiv within 48 hours.
Claimed that they wouldn't invade Ukraine.
Claimed that claims that Russia was planning to invade Ukraine was a NATO false flag.
Claimed in February that Ukraine had been attempting to use a car bomb to blow up a Luhansk official or a train full of Russian civilians in Luhansk, using footage from 2019.
Claimed in February that Polish Mercenaries had attempted to murder Donetsk civilians in a chemical weapons attack. using audio footage from 2010.
Claimed that the Ukrainian army wouldn't fight back and they'd only face scattered resistance from Nazis.
Claimed that the Ukrainian airforce was destroyed completely on the first day.
Claimed that NATO forced Russia to attack Ukraine.
Claimed that NATO was planning an invasion of Russia through Ukraine.
Claimed that the Kyiv Regime was going to surrender in February
Claimed that Russia would nuke the west if the west sent Ukraine Aid.
Claimed that they have won the war and Ukraine will now be part of Russia.... three days in.
Claimed that Zelensky had fled to Poland.
Claimed that Russia was about to Cauldron the entire Ukrainian army in the east in March.
Claimed that Russia would nuke the west if the west sent Ukraine military aid.
Claimed that Mariupol was taken.... in February.
Claimed that Mariupol was taken.... in March.
Claimed that Mariupol was taken.... in April.
Claimed that the Russian economy wasn't suffering.
Claimed that Russia would bring consequences if NATO invited Finland and Sweden to join NATO.
Claimed that the proof of the lack of victory is evidence that everyone in Ukraine is a Nazi who needs 30 years of forced rehabilitation and gulaging.
Claimed they were not killing civilians.
Claimed that Bucha was done by British Soldiers.
Claimed that Bucha was done by Azov Neo Nazis.
Claimed that Bucha was done by Ukrainian Artillery.
Claimed that Bucha never happened all the bodies were brought in.
Claimed that Russia was about to Cauldron the entire Ukrainian army in the east in April.
Claimed that Ukraine lost all their Bayraktars in April.
Claimed that Russia would bring consequences if Finland and Sweden agreed to join NATO.
Claimed that Ukraine was being invaded to stop secret NATO Biolabs that were being used to create superweapons that can kill Russians and\or COVID and Monkeypox.
Claimed that the Hospital in Mariupol was full of Azov
Claimed that the theatre full of children in Mariupol were full of Azov.
Claimed that the entire Kyiv offensive was a feint.
Claimed that the entire Sumy offensive was a feint.
Claimed that the Kharkov offensive was a feint before turning around and trying to go back.
Claimed the Ukrainian defensive lines in Donbass were routed in March.
Claimed the Ukrainian defensive lines in Donbass were routed in April.
Claimed the Ukrainian defensive lines in Donbass were routed in May.
Claimed that Ukraine lost all their Bayraktars in May.
Claimed that Russia was about to Cauldron the entire Ukrainian army in the east in May.
Claimed that Belarus was going to join the invasion in March.
Claimed that Belarus was going to join the invasion in April.
Claimed that Belarus was going to join the invasion in May.
Claimed that Belarus was going to join the invasion in December.
Claimed that Ukraine attacked Transnistria in an obvious false flag.
Claimed that the Kramatorsk railway station attack was a Ukrainian false flag because "Russia doesn't use that missile type anymore" despite pictures of Russian soldiers during the war using said missile.
Claimed that Russia didn't take massive losses in a failed River crossing.
Claimed that taking massive losses in a failed river crossing is completely normal and it happens to everyone.
Claimed that Ukraine launched an attack on Snake Island with helicopters, Ships and NATO commandos and Russia killed all of them.... before trying to claim that the dead Russian soldiers were actually NATO officers before blurring them out when people noticed that they were wearing Russian issued military clothing.
Claimed that there was a NATO Admiral in Mariupol leading Azov.... yet never produced Admiral.
Claimed that Russia was about to Cauldron all of the Ukrainians located in the Luhansk district in May.
Claimed that Russia was not deporting Ukrainians to Russia
Claimed that Ukrainians were not being taken from Ukraine and deported to locations inside Russia.
Claimed that an old computer from 2006 covered in crude "Property of NATO stickers" all over were a top secret NATO computer that Russia captured from Nazis.
Claimed that there was a secret plot by Ukrainian Nazis to kill a Russian propagandist that required Green wigs, unworn Swastika T-shirts, and three copies of the SIMs 3 in the place of SIM cards.
Claimed that Poland was going to invade West Ukraine.
Claimed that the Moskva was fine.
Claimed the Moskva had an internal fire not related to war.
Claimed that the Moskva safely made it back to harbor,
Claimed that the Moskva was sunk in an accident.
Claimed that only a single person died on the Moskva when she sank.
Claimed the Ukrainian defensive lines in Donbass were routed in June.
Claimed that Russia had Cauldroned all of the Ukrainians located in the Luhansk district in June.
Claimed the Ukrainian defensive lines in Donbass were routed in July.
Claimed that the Ukrainians are Genetically enhanced supersoldiers with STDs.
Claimed that the Ukrainians were using Black Magic to attack the Russian forces
Claimed that Ukrainians were selling them Western artillery... failed to produce any.
Claimed that the Kremenchuk shopping mall attack was caused by a fire from Ukrainian Munitions being hit by a Russian missile and not from Russian missiles having poor aim.
Claimed a logging truck was a destroyed HIMARs.
Claimed a supply truck was a destroyed HIMARs.
Claimed an Ambulance was a destroyed HIMARs.
Claimed another civilian truck was a destroyed HIMARs.
Claimed that a second story room in an old factory was a destroyed HIMARs.
Claimed Ukraine has lost more drones than Ukraine has ever owned.
Claimed that Ukraine has lost more aircraft than they ever owned.
Claimed Ukraine has lost all their HIMARs.
Claimed they weren't going to bomb Odessa after agreeing to a trade deal.... before bombing Odessa.
Claimed that a Ukrainian HIMARs killed the Azov POWs who were clearly set on fire.
Claimed the Kherson bridge was not hit.
Claimed the Kherson bridge was hit but damage was mild.
Claimed the Kherson bridge was hit but the damage wasn't to the point that the bridge wasn't usable despite traffic at the bridge stopping and Russians being forced to use ferries to cross the water.
Claimed that no aircraft were destroyed in the Crimea explosion.
Claimed that only one person died in said explosion. (Later admitted that over 60 died)
Claimed that the damage to the Kherson Dam was unwarranted even while the destruction photos show destroyed Russian military vehicles that had been parked there.
Claimed that Russia was never going to leave Kherson.
Claimed that Ukraine were dying by the hundreds and their army would collapse around Kherson.
Claimed that all the conquered regions overwhelmingly voted to secede despite allowing no observers.
Claimed that all the conquered regions overwhelmingly voted to join Russia despite allowing no observers.
Claimed that territory still held by Ukraine actually voted for Russia despite the impossibility of those areas voting.
Claimed that because of Annexation Kherson belonged to Russia forever.
Claimed that the Crimea bridge was fine.
Claimed that the Crimea bridge attack was a NATO attack.
Claimed that Ukraine was planning on invading Belarus.
Claimed that Bakhmut had fallen.
Claimed that Bakhmut had fallen again.
Claimed that Bakhmut had fallen yet again.
Claimed that Bakhmut had fallen and Ukraine is using human waves attacks to take it back.
Claimed that the Drone that hit the Russian Airbase was shot down and did no damage even after photos of damage appeared.
Claimed that no one died in the New Years attack
Claimed that the theater in Mariupol was bombed by Azov.
Claimed that Bradley IFVs have been destroyed even though they haven't even shown up in Ukraine.
Claimed that Ukraine has been defeated and that Millions of NATO soldiers are what they're fighting.
Claimed that Poland Invaded and conquered Ukraine and that they're liberating Ukraine from Polish occupation.
Claimed that thousands and thousands of NATO soldiers have died, provided no evidence supporting it.
Claimed that Soledar had NOT fallen after saying it had fallen.
Claimed that sending Tanks to Ukraine would result in nuclear war.
Claimed that Ukraine is using child soldiers.
Claimed that they launched a massive Southern Offensive and took several towns. (The offensive failed and they already held those towns)
Claimed that they aren't using Human Wave attacks, Ukraine is the one doing human wave attacks.
Claimed that they aren't committing War Crimes only Ukraine commits war crimes.
Claimed that Ukraine is conscripting people off the street at gunpoint.
Claimed that Ukraine is using Chemical Weapons disguised as conventional Russian grenades.
Claimed to have destroyed a Leopard 2 before they were even in Ukraine
Claimed to have captured a M1 Abrams despite none being in Ukraine
Claimed that T-62s are s good as M1 Abrams
Claimed that T-55s are just as good as M1 Abrams
Claimed that Wagner had enough shells
Claimed that Wagner didn't have enough shells
Claimed that Russia would nuke the UK if they sent long range missiles
Claimed that the Ukrainian counteroffensive had started
Claimed that the Ukrainian counteroffensive was already defeated
Claimed to have destroyed a Patriot battery
Claimed to have destroyed five patriot batteries.

Damn, that's a long list.

[Adamede]

Only cost you tens of thousands of men at 5 times the casualty rate that the Ukrainians suffered.

Now comes the time for the Vatniks to try and justify the strategic importance that they’ve claimed Bakhmut has had for months now.

Ukraine is being supplied by like every single country but Russia is still winning, fact is that Russia is going to beat NATO.

You think capturing Bakhmut means Russia is winning?

Again what is the strategic importance of Bakhmut I’ve been hearing so much about? It’s the 57th largest city in Ukraine and it took ten months capture it, and none of its infrastructure is intact. If it’s to grind down the Ukrainian military the Russians have failed in that regard. Hell it’s looking like Russia is running out of offensive capabilities while the Ukrainians are building there’s for a counter offensive.

[Adamede]

I have never denied a genocide was occurring. I asked what the best realistic option for war orphans was, to which you've responded with nothing but latent hostility - apparently on the misguided assumption that I am acting in the defense of a bandit state waging a war of aggression either as a paid propagandist or deluded fanatic. I suspected this was probably the case but it's nice to have confirmation.

Go project your own emotional and intellectual failings on someone else.

Lol.

I see you’ve intellectually failed to provide me with an intellectual response to the question of what Hitler should have done with the Jews if not put them in concentration camps. I can tell you are intellectually unserious and unable to grapple with intellectual titans such as myself. Adjusts Redditor glasses spectacles.

Nah man if those kids didn’t want to end up in a concentration camp they shouldn’t have been living in a war zone/s.

[Galloism]

The little piggies are being eaten and cooked by Russia

I hadn’t realized Russian supply lines were so bad they were resorting to cannibalism.

[Adamede]

You think capturing Bakhmut means Russia is winning?

Again what is the strategic importance of Bakhmut I’ve been hearing so much about? It’s the 57th largest city in Ukraine and it took ten months capture it, and none of its infrastructure is intact. If it’s to grind down the Ukrainian military the Russians have failed in that regard. Hell it’s looking like Russia is running out of offensive capabilities while the Ukrainians are building there’s for a counter offensive.

Russia is preparing to steamroll Ukraine and the rest of the NATO fascists. Zelensky was saying himsef how important Bakhmut was to Ukraine and he said "Our society will feel tired. Our society will push me to have a compromise with Russia if Ukrainian forces were to lose Bakhmut" UKRAINE IS LOSINGGGG

Press (X) for doubt.

[Bradfordville]

You think capturing Bakhmut means Russia is winning?

Again what is the strategic importance of Bakhmut I’ve been hearing so much about? It’s the 57th largest city in Ukraine and it took ten months capture it, and none of its infrastructure is intact. If it’s to grind down the Ukrainian military the Russians have failed in that regard. Hell it’s looking like Russia is running out of offensive capabilities while the Ukrainians are building there’s for a counter offensive.

Russia is preparing to steamroll Ukraine and the rest of the NATO fascists. Zelensky was saying himsef how important Bakhmut was to Ukraine and he said "Our society will feel tired. Our society will push me to have a compromise with Russia if Ukrainian forces were to lose Bakhmut" UKRAINE IS LOSINGGGG

The only thing Russia has steam rolled lately is its reputation as a military power. With a failing army riddled with failing technology and corruption, its 3 day special military operation to take all of Ukraine has been reduced to a months long operation to take exactly one town and defend the donbas. The few gains Russia may have gotten in Bakhmut, and I say may because I think we are taking way too much of what Russia says at face value when they claim they've taken Bakhmut, are likely to be erased by the next Ukrainian counter offensive.

Ukraine isn't losing outside of your wishful thinking. I don't know if you're a far leftist who just is driven to support anyone who claims to be anti American, or a right winger who thinks Russia is the last savior of christendom and tradition, but you bet on a really bad fucking horse my guy. Only thing Russia is defeating is its ability to fight a war for the next 50 years when it gets done running its Saddam Hussein tier army into the pavement.